Sincere doubt about prayer in cemeteries.

It's strange but I think Trads have a turn against it. I'm not quite sure why, but loads of them give it the thumbs down.

 

I am not a believer either. Not that I am qualified to be on their level.

 

Saints in the past have strongly disagreed on some apparitions. I believe St Jean Vienney was against LaSalle. Later after the Church approved it he embraced it.

 

In a way, it is because some messages seem to point towards post-Vatican II ecumenism.

 

October 1, 1981 – Message from Our Lady of Medjugorje
Are all religions the same?
“Members of all faiths are equal before God. God rules over each faith just like a sovereign over his kingdom. In the world, all religions are not the same because all people have not complied with the commandments of God. They reject and disparage them.”

Are all churches the same?
“In some, one prays to God more. In others, less. That depends on the priests who motivate others to pray. That also depends on the power which they have.”

Why are there so many apparitions, which repeat themselves so many times? Why does the Blessed Virgin appear to children who do not follow the way of God? “I appear to you often and in every place. To others, I appear from time to time and briefly. They do not follow yet, completely the way of God. They are not aware of the gift which He has made them, that no one deserves. With time, they also will come to follow the right way.” (Thursday, October 1, 1981)
https://marytv.tv/october-1-1981-message-from-our-lady-of-medjugorje/

 

Someone sent me this:

https://www.apostoladodegarabandal.com/en/garabandal-e-o-purgatorio/



PRAY FOR DEAD PEOPLE IN CEMETERIES

Our Lady confirmed this habit of praying for souls, when She guided the girls in a state of ecstasy to do the same. She took them to the village cemetery, alone or with a group. What is more significant was that this happened more frequently during November than at other times of the year. The significance of all this is even more important, as the Spanish people are not in the habit of visiting their deceased relatives in cemeteries. As a general rule, girls did not enter the cemetery. They were almost always outside the bars of the main gate of the cemetery, which is located on a little bit far from the village. In the first volume "I quickly climbed the mountain", Father Eusébio Garcia de Pesquera recounts an incident involving Conchita, his mother Aniceta and the cemetery. This event occurred on an unusual and stormy night. Aniceta admitted to being a little fearful when it comes to walking alone at night. She never ventured to walk alone in the dark, nor would she ever go to an area as isolated at night as the cemetery. However, she makes a curious observation, that her fear of darkness disappeared when she was accompanied by some of the ecstatic girls. On this particular stormy night, Aniceta was completely alone with her ecstatic daughter on the way to the cemetery. They stopped at the gate and prayed for the deceased for a while. Then, still together, they returned to the village. Conchita has always been in a state of ecstasy all this time. Once in the village, she started to walk the small streets and alleys singing the rosary together with her mother who tried to respond in the best possible way. Aniceta says that normally her daughter sang very poorly, but "when she is ecstatic, she is completely transformed and wonderful things happen to her." The sound of singing, dragged some people out of their homes, who later joined Conchita and her mother.

 

I think that close loved ones, people like parents, children, spouses are permitted very,very often to return for a period of time after their deaths to comfort those who are mourning and to get them through things. This is a very logical state of affairs and would be very much part of the Communion of the Saints. An extension of love from beyond the grave. I did notice my mother very close after she died for about a year or so, expecially around Christmas, this was just so touching. A Mother's love never dies, it seems even from beyond the grave.

However I don't think this goes on forever. I think in heaven we have our own kind of work to do, things to learn, things to take care of and that we don;t sit like turnips in the sun up there. We have a path to move forward. Thus as Jesus tells us in Scripture there is a gulf set between here and the hereafter.

Luke 16:26

And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

It is rather different with the saints ( I mean those who have been raised to the altar by the Church). St Therese of Liseaux , for instance famously said,

'I will spend my heaven doing good on Earth. At my passing I will let fall a shower of roses upon the Earth'

She was not the only canonised saints to express such sentiments. Many saints , beofre they died said they'd be coming back to help out.

But for other souls who enter heaven and are not canonised by the Church I think their role in heaven would be expected to be different, they have work up there to be getting on with. At least that is my impression. What the Church Declares and sets in motion down here really does have an effect up there.

A few times I have prayed to souls whose cause for Canonisation is going ahead in ROme and have called them saints. They have at once contradiicted me and reminded me they are not canonised saints and done so very firmly. Which taught me that what the Church gets up to down here really, really does be paid attention to in heaven.

 

Interesting discussion. I think that before I was converted, I was very afraid of cemeteries. And death. It's a thing with secular people, and if you watch enough tv and movies you will see that a cemetery is a huge money maker backdrop for all kinds of spooky stories. But we are the light of world. We are to hold up our heads at the horrors of this life and be Christ's body here on earth. If we cannot even walk into a cemetery and pray for poor souls how can we stand at the End when the horror is so real that people die of fear on the spot? Demons are everywhere. I would be more afraid to walk into a collage nightclub than a cemetery. The Church asks us to pray for the dead, and of course demons want to scare us away from that, hence turning cemeteries into a place of supposed horrors. But my beloved relatives are in there, and NO! demons are not going to scare me out of lovingly visiting and praying for them, and everyone in there with them who is in need of prayer.

 

I think Catholic cemeteries are Holy Places, like Churches and are specially blessed.

 

But maybe not so with Secular cemeteries?
Although when I visited Aushwitch Concentration Camp were countless people were murdered what a calm peaceful atmosphere it had. They say though in Dachau, which is surrounded by trees the birds never fly over it.

Also Abortion Mills have a bad name for disturbances..

 

It is consecrated ground enriched with heartfelt prayers over the many generations.

 

I've also been thinking about all the poor souls nowadays who get burned up, put in a coffee can, and dumped somewhere. Or thrown off cliffs, or "set free" at the Packers Football Stadium or Disney World. Cemeteries seem all the more sacred and peaceful compared to that. I hear so many people talking about what they did to Mom or Dad or Grandma and am getting invited to "Celebrations of Life" that say they will be releasing the ashes at some point over a lake or park. Some of these are Catholics! Of course when I can I try to educate them on death and resurrection and what God wants us to do with mortal bodies, but they are too sucked in to the new secular views of this. Besides, MONEY comes into it. "Yes Mom wanted a Catholic funeral and burial but it's so expensive, and she is dead anyway so we are going to set her ashes free at her old homestead" etc..... I guess it's hard to spend those extra dollars on preparing Mom's body for eternity when you could be getting that new furniture set you've been wanting....

 

And then we have the grieving ones..... "I had my husband cremated so I could keep his ashes with me. He is on the shelf in my bedroom" A family member of mine lost her husband young a few years ago, and she became homeless. I let her move in with me but told her that her husband's ashes needed to stored somewhere else, they were not to come into my house. She argued that I have my deceased dogs ashes in the house which is no different. I argued back that animals ARE different, and she wouldn't say the roast chicken in the fridge is the same as her husband. Anyway she grudgingly left hubby out in the trunk of her car and was angry at me. I offered to buy her a spot for the interment of his ashes at our Catholic cemetery, but she couldn't bear to part with them. Recently I lost my Golden Retriever and a friend offered to bury him in their pet cemetery. I remembered about the dogs ashes from former dogs and had them all buried with Raleigh. I made sure my relative knew this because I too needed to find a place of rest for them and not cause her any more confusion.

 

I recall reading somewhere that Padre Pio, when asked about praying for a deceased soul's intercession, said to ask Jesus to allow them to intercede for you. The prayer is then directed to Jesus and not to the soul wherever it may be.

 

I have prayed along those lines. I also try to remember to ask God’s permission to send my Guardian Angel.

 

Padre Pio was so amazing.

 

I don't know ,I would still be very uneasy about getting cremated. Historically the Church was always against it. Only in very recent times was it permitted, I think. But the tide, I think has swung the other way again and many priests warn against it.

https://www.tulipcremation.com/arti...des/cremation/catholic-cremation-beliefs.html

Changes in Catholic teachings on cremation
Though the Vatican forbade cremation for centuries, the Church amended its Code of Canon Law in 1963, lifting its ban on cremation.

As long as cremation is not chosen to partake in a pagan ritual, the Church allows it. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, the organized teachings of the Catholic Church and its primary reference text, only directly references cremation once, saying: “the Church permits cremation, provided that it does not demonstrate a denial of faith in the resurrection of the body” (no. 2301).

Since 1997, ashes have been formally allowed at Catholic funeral Masses, and are given the same respect as body scheduled to be buried.

In 2016, the Church issued new guidelines for how to lay a loved one to rest after cremation.

 

We have put our final wishes in our wills about the funeral Mass and we have burial plots.

 

All this talk of a Cemeteries reminds me of two striking films from Hollywood I saw as a child, I think both films came from the 1940's of 1930's.

The first film concerned a small town and mostly concerned the cemetery. After their death the souls stood at their graves watching all that went on in the town below. They were only allowed to come back once if they felt the need to do so. Very errie.

The second film concerned a group of people who had just died, but they did not really know they had died. They were on a ship being taken to their judgement and gradually, through the film their sins and failings were exposed.

Films were much better in those days from Hollywood, I must see if I can find them. They stuck in my memory.

Actually Hollywood in the old days was very good at making films about the after life.

Here are someone's top ten:

https://www.bfi.org.uk/lists/10-great-films-about-afterlife

I think the best Modern one was ,'Ghost'.