When persecution arrives, should the faithful go underground?

Hello, all! I wanted to pose this question that I have been wrestling with for a long time (and that I will probably take to a spiritual director, if I am able to find one). We have all likely heard about how the Church will have to go underground for a while once persecution/tribulation arrives. I am wondering, though, about those cases where the faithful will be martyred for refusing to recant. I have family members who are careful not to post anything religious on their social media, and who have even suggested I get rid of my religious tattoos because they would make me an easy mark should any authority/government entity begin hunting us down. I guess what I am trying to figure out is when do we hide and when do we stand (with God's help and grace to fortify us) firm in the faith, fully knowing we and our loved ones could be tortured and martyred?

 

It’s a good question to ponder. The answer to me is a bit complex in that some areas of the world already are experiencing direct and violent persecution of Catholics ( and other Christians). So they are already facing martyrdom. I don’t know where you live, but I would say here in the US we are not at the point of a red martyrdom and shedding blood. Who knows if/when that comes. But we are absolutely filling facing a white martyrdom in this country. Look at the laws around marriage, abortion, gender , etc. These are all a direct persecution of our faith. The closing of the Churches as not “essential” during Covid and even the forcing of the vac are also persecution. To stand against these, may mean loss of jobs, being ostrized, losing friends and family …. I believe these are a type of martyrdom. Sure, you could avoid by complying but if you stand up, as I said, you will suffer perhaps not physical death, but certainly other forms of “death”. Courage.

 

I think in Canada ,we will be looking at job losses, jail time and fines. When passports become mandatory, starvation could be a real possibility as well. Not letting us in grocery stores. Becoming outcasts of society. I already am somewhat. Hahaha

 

Matthew 24:15-22

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

 

Jesus speaks of the coming persecutions to His disciples...
Matthew 10: 16-33

Douay-Rheims DR + LV Latin Vulgate Summa Catechism
Douay-Rheims Bible


16 Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves. 17 But beware of men. For they will deliver you up in councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues. 18 And you shall be brought before governors, and before kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles: 19 But when they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what to speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what to speak. 20 For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.

[16] "Simple": That is, harmless, plain, sincere, and without guile.

21 The brother also shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the son: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and shall put them to death. 22 And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved. 23 And when they shall persecute you in this city, flee into another. Amen I say to you, you shall not finish all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man come. 24 The disciple is not above the master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the goodman of the house Beelzebub, how much more them of his household?

26 Therefore fear them not. For nothing is covered that shall not be revealed: nor hid, that shall not be known. 27 That which I tell you in the dark, speak ye in the light: and that which you hear in the ear, preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear not therefore: better are you than many sparrows. 32 Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven. 33 But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven.

 

imho, we're all going to suffer in some way; as was stated above, many already have and are now. I would think that if you're to go underground at some point, you won't know until you "know" and you'll be given the grace to follow through on the Lord's plan for you and yours.

 

I agree with you.
The graces will be given when needed.
We will be shepherded by the Good Shepherd. “ I know my sheep and My sheep know me.”

 

I was reading a couple of Letters of the pre Nicene Father last night. One of them gave an account of the trial in front of the Proconsul Rufus of St Justin and a group of other Christian Martyrs several men and all women who were all sentenced to death by being scourged and then beheaded (back in those days being scourged was considered about the worst thing that could ever happen to you....and just imagine one of them was the poor woman. Which is why Jesus when going up to Jerusalem specifically said that He was to be scourged and then crucified..a double whammy.)

But the account of the trial has such a modern feel to it as Rufus the Judge questioned them all, kind of like a Modern Fani Willis . Very graphic and now.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0133.htm

The Martyrdom of Justin
Please help support the mission of New Advent and get the full contents of this website as an instant download. Includes the Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers, Summa, Bible and more — all for only $19.99...

The martyrdom of the holy martyrs Justin, Chariton, Charites, Pæon and Liberianus, who suffered at Rome

Chapter 1. Examination of Justin by the prefect
In the time of the lawless partisans of idolatry, wicked decrees were passed against the godly Christians in town and country, to force them to offer libations to vain idols; and accordingly the holy men, having been apprehended, were brought before the prefect of Rome, Rusticus by name. And when they had been brought before his judgment-seat, said to Justin, Obey the gods at once, and submit to the kings. Justin said, To obey the commandments of our Saviour Jesus Christ is worthy neither of blame nor of condemnation. Rusticus the prefect said, What kind of doctrines do you profess? Justin said, I have endeavoured to learn all doctrines; but I have acquiesced at last in the true doctrines, those namely of the Christians, even though they do not please those who hold false opinions. Rusticus the prefect said, Are those the doctrines that please you, you utterly wretched man? Justin said, Yes, since I adhere to them with right dogma. Rusticus the prefect said, What is the dogma? Justin said, That according to which we worship the God of the Christians, whom we reckon to be one from the beginning, the maker and fashioner of the whole creation, visible and invisible; and the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who had also been preached beforehand by the prophets as about to be present with the race of men, the herald of salvation and teacher of good disciples. And I, being a man, think that what I can say is insignificant in comparison with His boundless divinity, acknowledging a certain prophetic power, since it was prophesied concerning Him of whom now I say that He is the Son of God. For I know that of old the prophets foretold His appearance among men.


Chapter 2. Examination of Justin continued
Rusticus the prefect said, Where do you assemble? Justin said, Where each one chooses and can: for do you fancy that we all meet in the very same place? Not so; because the God of the Christians is not circumscribed by place; but being invisible, fills heaven and earth, and everywhere is worshipped and glorified by the faithful. Rusticus the prefect said, Tell me where you assemble, or into what place do you collect your followers? Justin said, I live above one Martinus, at the Timiotinian Bath; and during the whole time (and I am now living in Rome for the second time) I am unaware of any other meeting than his. And if any one wished to come to me, I communicated to him the doctrines of truth. Rusticus said, Are you not, then, a Christian? Justin said, Yes, I am a Christian.

 

Chapter 3. Examination of Chariton and others
Then said the prefect Rusticus to Chariton, Tell me further, Chariton, are you also a Christian? Chariton said, I am a Christian by the command of God. Rusticus the prefect asked the woman Charito, What say you, Charito? Charito said, I am a Christian by the grace of God. Rusticus said to Euelpistus, And what are you? Euelpistus, a servant of Cæsar, answered, I too am a Christian, having been freed by Christ; and by the grace of Christ I partake of the same hope. Rusticus the prefect said to Hierax, And you, are you a Christian? Hierax said, Yes, I am a Christian, for I revere and worship the same God. Rusticus the prefect said, Did Justin make you Christians? Hierax said, I was a Christian, and will be a Christian. And Pæon stood up and said, I too am a Christian. Rusticus the prefect said, Who taught you? Pæon said, From our parents we received this good confession. Euelpistus said, I willingly heard the words of Justin. But from my parents also I learned to be a Christian. Rusticus the prefect said, Where are your parents? Euelpistus said, In Cappadocia. Rusticus says to Hierax, Where are your parents? And he answered, and said, Christ is our true father, and faith in Him is our mother; and my earthly parents died; and I, when I was driven from Iconium in Phrygia, came here. Rusticus the prefect said to Liberianus, And what say you? Are you a Christian, and unwilling to worship [the gods]? Liberianus said, I too am a Christian, for I worship and reverence the only true God.

Chapter 4. Rusticus threatens the Christians with death
The prefect says to Justin, Hearken, you who are called learned, and think that you know true doctrines; if you are scourged and beheaded, do you believe you will ascend into heaven? Justin said, I hope that, if I endure these things, I shall have His gifts. For I know that, to all who have thus lived, there abides the divine favour until the completion of the whole world. Rusticus the prefect said, Do you suppose, then, that you will ascend into heaven to receive some recompense? Justin said, I do not suppose it, but I know and am fully persuaded of it. Rusticus the prefect said, Let us, then, now come to the matter in hand, and which presses. Having come together, offer sacrifice with one accord to the gods. Justin said, No right-thinking person falls away from piety to impiety. Rusticus the prefect said, Unless you obey, you shall be mercilessly punished. Justin said, Through prayer we can be saved on account of our Lord Jesus Christ, even when we have been punished, because this shall become to us salvation and confidence at the more fearful and universal judgment-seat of our Lord and Saviour. Thus also said the other martyrs: Do what you will, for we are Christians, and do not sacrifice to idols.

Chapter 5. Sentence pronounced and executed
Rusticus the prefect pronounced sentence, saying, Let those who have refused to sacrifice to the gods and to yield to the command of the emperor be scourged, and led away to suffer the punishment of decapitation, according to the laws. The holy martyrs having glorified God, and having gone forth to the accustomed place, were beheaded, and perfected their testimony in the confession of the Saviour. And some of the faithful having secretly removed their bodies, laid them in a suitable place, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ having wrought along with them, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

Reading "Ecclesiastical History" by Eusebius of Caesarea (265–339) is a great exercise for "traveling back in time" and getting to know an in-depth description of some of the first saints of Roman martiorology, such as Perpetua and Felicitas.

 

The Live of Saint Perpetua and her dream is one of the Great Proofs that the early Christians believed in Purgatory. Her Feast Day was just a short few days ago.

 

Reading the Church Fathers is the Major reason Protestants become Catholic.

 

I am also in Canada and agree with you, 100%, especially when you look at the kind of prime minister we have. He is a man who openly declared that to join his Liberal Party, you HAD to be pro-choice. That was all I needed to know that we were heading in a terrifying direction faster than expected.

 

Thank you. That thought did pop into my head after posting this question, that God may make it known what He wants each of us to do. All I pray is that whatever it is, I have the strength to stay faithful to Him, even if it means giving my yes to worst-case scenarios. Years ago, I had a series of dreams in which I always ended up martyred in some way. At the time, these stunned me, as I had never before even considered that end as a possibility. I ended up speaking to a priest who actually took me seriously and asked several questions about the details of the dreams. He concluded that it may be in God's plan for my life (especially with the way the world is), and that I should simply continue to strengthen myself with the sacraments and prayer to be able to face it. I have had ebbs and flows to my faith life since then, but recently felt an enormous pull out of nowhere to "get right" again (thoughts of the Warning also lit a fire under me). Then I found this forum again and appreciated how serious everyone was about the signs of the times, so I wanted to see what your thoughts were.

 

It’s wonderful that you feel comfortable sharing your inmost thoughts here.

 

"To be deep in History is to cease to be Protestant" - Cardinal Newman

 

Thank you! It feels like a warm, charitable place, so I decided to toss the question out there.

 

I love your avatar, Memorare...our beautiful, sorrowful Mother. I, too, believe God will give us what we need right when we need it, if He is calling us to martyrdom. And in the days leading up to an unfortunate turn of events, we should be able to discern through prayer when we should lay low or take a bold stand. I think God would lead each one of us in what we should do, if we were staying close to Him in prayer. For now, I think our greatest goal is to win as many souls for Christ as we can.

 

Ah Canada!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/supreme-court-canada-rules-it-is-problematic-refer/



In a recent sexual assault case, The Supreme Court of Canada ruled it was “problematic” for a lower court judge to refer to the alleged victim as a “woman,” implying that the term that should have been used is “person with a vagina.”

Justice Sheilah Martin, nominated to the Court by woke champion Justin Trudeau in 2017, wrote in a decision published Friday that a trial judge’s use of the word “a woman” may “have been unfortunate and engendered confusion.”

According to The National Post, the involves a sexual assault allegation made by a woman against Charles Kruk. The victim alleges she was intoxicated and lost when Kruk took home with him in 2017 to call her family for help.


She passed out, and when she woke up, her pants were off, and Kruk was assaulting her.

National Post reports:

Martin does not specify why the word “woman” is confusing, but the next passage in her decision refers to the complainant as a “person with a vagina.” Notably, not one person in the entire case is identified as transgender, and the complainant is referred to throughout as a “she.”

The case was R. v. Kruk, which involved a 2017 charge of sexual assault against then 34-year-old Maple Ridge, B.C., man Charles Kruk.


https://www.wnd.com/2024/03/police-tell-residents-leave-car-keys-thieves-can-grab/


Police tell residents to leave car keys where thieves can grab them
Apparent goal is to avoid 'confrontations'

A police officer in one major city has advised residents, amid an explosion in the number of car thefts, to leave their car keys where thieves can easily grab them.

The apparent goal is to avoid a "confrontation" with thieves who would break into a home to steal car keys, in order then to steal that car.

The advice comes from Toronto, Canada, police constable Marco Ricciardi who was at a town meeting recently in the municipality of Etobicoke.


"To prevent the possibility of being attacked in your home, leave your FOBs at your front door. Because they’re breaking into your home to steal your car. They don’t want anything else," he said. "A lot of them that they’re arresting have guns on them. And they’re not toy guns, they’re real guns. They’re loaded.

 

Memorare, I remember Immaculée Ilibagiza of Rwanda, gave a wonderful talk, where she was asked about her prayer life now and what she feels she is called to do in regards to facing a future of uncertainty where many may be called to Martyrdom, should we accept martyrdom as her parents and family did, like Our Lady when she witnessed her sons crucifixion.

Immaculee's answer was magnificent. She said something along these lines.....

You must remember that Our Lady prayed and discerned all things. When she fled to Egypt, she listened to her husband St Joseph who was told by God (through an Angel), to flee into Egypt to escape Herod's murderous desire to kill the Christ child. And so the Holy Family took refuge in a foreign country; very scary.

However, when Our Lady was to become the Queen of Martyrs at her Sons crucifixion she accepted this sword of suffering which pierced her most Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart.

Like you I pray for final perseverance and the knowledge to discern what I am to do at any given moment. Never compromising the truth! Knowing when to stay and stand for truth or if it be Our Lords Will, when to flee and to where; for how long, what to take, who to inform etc.

I believe God will give us the graces necessary when the time comes.
The Lord will lead. Stay prayerful. Surrender all to Jesus.
God Bless you and all of us. Amen