Elisa said: And what about this: "When something does not come from God, it will not survive longtime". Medjugorje "survives" already approximately 33 years... I am only talking here about apparitions within the Catholic Church. Rino, you never ceased judging us.... Be happy that we go to Church and for the rest: leave it to God. By the way: are you catholic ?
I thank God for Medjugorjie. I have found my faith, helped save my marriage, helped convert and save a few of my kids who now PRACTICE their faith, given me a faithful priest for the last 20 years in a diocese that was rife with apostasy from the cardinal on down. Oh, and I have never even gone there. I probably would never have found a rosary, gone to confession, or knew what adoration even was. What a blessing and tremendous amount of grace I have received through Medj, even though I did not believe at first. Medj has even taught me obedience. I suppose Pope Francis and Cardinal Schonborn (amongst many other bishops) are also disobedient. Get a life Rino.
I think I've said everything I meant to say. Yes I'm Catholic. Yes Cardinal Schonborn is disobedient, and rude, and do not respects politeness protocols within the Church. Everything you have heard about the Pope in relation to this issue are only unconfirmed rumors. Much about Medjugorje is based on hearsay. I'm going to get a life, I no longer have much time for you. Your faith is strong, but is it correct, that is the question.
I wouldn't say being right or wrong about something like an apparition site meant one's faith itself was on the rocks, Rino.
I would go far as to say that when the Medjugorje is approved and its messages are being revealed, Our Lord will not be real happy with those that fought against his Mother in Medjugorje.
Are you Catholic? Because you have a very strange statement about the Lord. That's what you're talking about looks like a determinism. Otherwise the Mary is a human being, Jesus' mother, she was not mother of the Lord. The Lord is Jesus' father. Jesus, the Lord and the Holy Spirit are divine persons, and together they make up the holy trinity. Mary is not divine person, she is in a special way by God and to God devoted human being.
Perhaps it is the language barrier but your position is like that of the Protestants. Mary is Theotokos, Mother of God.
and Thomas replied, "MY LORD AND MY GOD". Rino, you have a way of arrogance beyond the normal. You challenge peoples Catholicism because you lack your own theology. Truly, I don't know why you even bother on this site. Those here are keen enough in the faith to know their faith, teach the faith and live the faith. You won't find any defections here with your rhetoric.
Mother of God, yes, but not the mother of the Lord, the Lord is the father. Maybe it's the language barrier, or you do not follow the context of what some people write.
Ja mogu pisati i na Hrvatskom, pa ćemo se možda bolje razumjeti. Očito nisam na katoličkom forumu, ispričavam se zbog smetanja. Ukoliko tri crkvene komisije donesu isti pravorjek, mogu li se ljudi koji se tom pravorjeku opiru te ga ne poštuju istinski nazvati katolicima?
Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension of not only what this particular title of Mary signifies but also who Jesus was, and what their own theological forebears, the Protestant Reformers, had to say regarding this doctrine. A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3). Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ. Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ. To avoid this conclusion, Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God. The Nestorian claim that Mary did not give birth to the unified person of Jesus Christ attempts to separate Christ’s human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinctpersons—one divine and one human—united in a loose affiliation. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers recognized.
I always love the Marian title , 'Mother of God', because it is just so huge. It carries in its heart, I believe all the other titles. For instance if she is Mother of God she is Queen of Heaven, Queen of the Angels and our Mother too. Yes it is huge and I can see why, humanly it is something to struggle with. Like so much in our Catholic like like the Eucharist. I think that this is where Protestantism struggles a lot with the mystical; that they see things through human eyes rather than the mystical eyes of Chirst. Thus the inner reality of all things is lost.
I was thinking of this loss of the Mystical sense in Protestantism the last week or so when watching past episodes of the American series the Walton's . Do you remember them? The Waltons is an American television series created by Earl Hamner, Jr., based on his book Spencer's Mountain, and a 1963 film of the same name. The show is centered on a family in a rural Virginia community during the Great Depression and World War II. The series pilot aired as a television movie entitled The Homecoming: A Christmas Story and was broadcast on December 19, 1971.[1] Beginning in September 1972, the series originally aired on CBS for a total of nine seasons. After the series was canceled in 1981, three television movie sequels followed in 1982, with three more in the 1990s. The Waltons was produced by Lorimar Productions and distributed by Warner Bros. Domestic Television Distribution in syndication.
This Baptist family is portrayed in the pilot episode , 'Christmas Homecoming, A Christmas story' and I find it touching, prayerful and a real learning experience, you can watch it on utube here:
But I found it so interesting watching this Baptist family from a Catholic perspective. Noticing the profound difference of my own lived experience in a large Irish Catholic family. Noticing these differences I don't mean to carp or criticise. The Walton's are wonderful and have a huge amount to teach ,especially about bringing the Word of God alive in family life; but there is a mystical dimension that I beliieve leaves such a huge gap. For instance in the home; there are no religious pictures or icons, no not even a crucifix to call the heart to God. So bare such a great pity, such a feeling of absence. Sad. On Christmas Eve only the grandfather goes to Church on his own. Later the grandfather mentions he goes to Church , 'Because I like the singing'. The Baptist service has a scripture reading, a sermon , singing and well that's just about that. The lived Faith does not translate into everyday discourse as it does say in Ireland , For instance the standard old greeting here in Irish is, 'God be with you'..and the response is, 'God and Mary be with you'. I love the Walton's and enjoy so much watching the episodes again but there really is a mystical vacuum , a sense of God walking in the everyday that is very absent. The loss of Mary as Mother of God is so much a part of this. I suspect too when we loose this sense of the Mystical we start on a downward track that leads to a lived athiesm or agnosticism. For we need this mystical sense just as much or more than we need air or water to spiritual survive. This loss of the mystical in Modern Liberal Catholicism explains a lot why it leads to spiritual death as often transpires amongst our Baptist sisters and Brothers. We need belief in the Mother of God, the Eucharist, the Mystical Body of Christ , the Sacraments so very, very much. For without it we shrivel and die.
Rino, you certainly know father Jozo. Go have a serious talk with him and tell him about your doubts regarding Medjugorje. Or do you think you possess already all knowledge ? He saw the Virgin Mary. He was in prison because of Medjugorje. He knows what is suffering. Interesting video about father Jozo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dGs7vaG0Oo And here a video in Croatian only: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fd7ussz5Cg View attachment 1536 View attachment 1537
Think of father Jozo Zovko, disobedient Franciscan who held the Mass, shared a sacraments, and listened to the confessions, even when it was forbidden to do so. You have the article below so read it.. http://www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/father-jozo-a-disobedient-franciscan.html
Rino, I read that article before and I do not believe it at all: it is filled up with lies and especially when it comes from the bishop of Mostar, Ratko Perić..... It is not for nothing that the Vatican took Medjugorje out of his hands... You should read serious and objective articles like this one: http://www.medjugorje-apologia.com/ Here you will read all the facts. Pope Jean-Paul II who gave his special blessings to Father Jozo: http://www.medjugorje.org/frjozoletter.htm As Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis opened his diocese to Medjugorje priests and asked Fr. Jozo Zovko to bless him. And shortly before, he left for the papal conclave in Rome, he approved of visionary Ivan Dragicevic’s public apparition arrangements that drew 10,000 people : http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/9174/new-pope-approved-of-medjugorje-visits/ http://www.medjugorjemiracles.com/2011/10/fr-jozo-kovko-brought-to-testify-before-vatican/ I am really ashamed for those who attack father Jozo, because he is a very holy man.
Look how nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=OfEw44cVJvY Sorry Padraig, nothing to do with this thread, but it is almost Christmas time and Love is in the Air.
