Medjugorje - "The Great Prophecy" Is Unfolding

To Andy:

You wrote:

How I can make one thread if I am allowed to post only 1,000 characters in one thread? Maybe you can help me? Maybe you can tell me how to do it? I will greatly appreciate this.

Thank you.

 

To Eamonn:

You wrote (between two dotted lines):
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"1980 In Fulda Germany 1980 Pope John Paul ii tells the real reason why the consecration has not happened.
The Holy Father was asked, "What about the Third Secret of Fatima? Should it not have already been published by 1960?"
Pope John Paul II replied: "Given the seriousness of the contents, my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves.

…Pope John Paul ii told us he would not release the 3rd secret because he did not want the powers of communism to make certain moves. What moves could these be?, could it be that in 1960 if the Pope had of come out and said that Russia was going to attack the west and millions will die Russia will win.

…could it be the later the better to save as many souls before it starts as we know millions could die from one moment to the next. Could it be that the Popes have been the good guys here all the time for keeping quiet and taking all the criticism which they have."

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My God! You are actually saying that God unwisely wanted to reveal the secret in 1960. God did not understand that by revealing the secret in 1960, millions of souls would needlessly perish. But the Popes of Rome, the “good guys” understood it and corrected God. Did I understand you correctly? Is THAT what you are saying???

 

concernedforusa, you said, "I know precisely what Daniel’s 70 weeks of years mean, and you cannot surprise me with anything concerning this prophecy. You said that the Antichrist wages the war on the Church for 3.5 years. This is a traditional understanding that the actual war or the Great Tribulation will last 3.5 years. The traditional understanding is wrong. You will not be able to support this understanding with the Scripture". "Again, the traditional understanding is that the Great Tribulation will last 3.5 years. It is absolutely wrong, and I can prove it. The Abomination of the Desolation is not the abolishment of the Mass, and I can prove it. So, I am sorry to tell you that, but my theory does add up, and yours does not".

It is getting very frustrating to deal with your arrogance to say it kindly. You think you know the future based on your limited understanding of scripture, yet you fail to understand what I have already said, so I will post the scripture passage of the 3.5 years of the desolation of the abomination (where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will nearly cease) for you, so as to spoon feed it to you as simple as I possibly can. It is all in Daniel 9:27 "For one week he shall make a firm compact with the many; Half the week he shall abolish sacrifice and oblation; On the temple wing shall be the horrible abomination until the ruin that is decreed is poured out upon the horror". Knowing that you are a scripture scholar and I am just a slug, how is it that you are unable to know that "one week of years" = 7 years, where "he (the Antichrist) will make compact with the enemy" and "half of the week of the years" (3.5 years) "victim (JESUS) and sacrifice (MASS) will nearly cease" because of the "abomination of the desolation"? What is it you do not understand? You said I could not prove it by scripture. You said scripture alone can prove your point. I use scripture alone to disprove your premise, which is seriously flawed. Did I surprise you concerning this prophecy of the OT Daniel as you said I could not?

I am done arguing the obvious with you. God help and God bless you.

 

IF you read my threads on Putin/Consecration and the latest messages from locutions.org, our Lady spells it out and why...

 

To Fatima:

You wrote:

Below is a direct translation of Daniel 9:27 from Hebrew language:

וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים, שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד; וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה, וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם, וְעַד-כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה, תִּתַּךְ עַל-שֹׁמֵם. {פ}

“And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.”

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3409.htm


When you are dealing with the Prophecies in the OT, you must pay attention to what this particular prophecy EXACTLY says.

Daniel 9:27 explicitly says that in the middle of the week he (the Antichrist) shall abolish sacrifice and oblation. That is all what Daniel 9:27 says happens in the “middle of the week”. Daniel 9:27 does not speak about the Abomination of Desolation, it speaks about Abominations in plural. And it does not happen in the middle of the week.


And why do you think that the abolition of “sacrifice and oblation” means the abolition of the Mass? It has nothing to do with the Mass.

The Hebrew words translated as “sacrifice and oblation” are:

זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה

Where:

זֶבַח - means “blood sacrifice (animal sacrifice)”

וּמִנְחָה - means “offering” or “oblation”


Please take a look at the Hebrew phrase:

וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה

This Hebrew phrase literally means: “He (the Antichrist) will cause the blood sacrifice (animal sacrifice) to be put on hold”.

The Antichrist was supposed to “cause the blood sacrifice (animal sacrifice) to be put on hold” and he already did it almost a year ago – on Nisan 10, 2013!

Daniel 9:27 does not even speak about the Abomination of Desolation – Daniel 9:27 speaks about the Abominations in plural. Daniel 12:11 speaks about the Abomination of Desolation – and this Abomination of Desolation does not take place in the middle of the week of Daniel 9:27.

What you think is obvious, is not so obvious at all. You think that this is obvious because you are relying on the English translation (and not very good translation), while you should rely on the actual Hebrew language of the passage.

God help and God bless you.

 

A thread is simply the title header under which posts are posted to.
When you created the thread (title) you posted the first post to the thread ( and as you like to repeat it is limited to 1000 char)
Simply post further posts to the thread for your parts ii, iii ...

 

Gospel: St. Matthew 24: 15-35
15 At that time, Jesus said to His disciples: When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.

• 
  Commentary on Verse 15 The abomination of desolation was first partly fulfilled by divers profanations of the temple, as when the image of Caesar was set up in the temple by Pilate, and Adrian’s statue in the holy of holies, and when the sacrifices were taken away; but will be more completely fulfilled by Antichrist and his precursors, when they shall attempt to abolish the holy sacrifice of the mass. Saint Hyppolitus, in his treatise de Anti-Christo, mentioned by Eusebius, Saint Jerome, and Photius, thus writeth: “The churches shall lament with great lamentations, because there shall neither be made oblations, nor incense, nor worship grateful to God. … In those days the liturgy (or mass) shall be neglected, the psalmody shall cease, the reciting of Scripture shall not be heard.” – The prophet Daniel (12:11) calculates the reign of Antichrist, from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away; which, by able commentators, is understood of the sacrifice of the mass, which Antichrist will endeavor to suppress.

 

Padraig,

This is your web site and I must admit the tone of late is very negative, full of pride, arrogance and not what this place should be or has been even up to a week ago. The joy of being in Our Mother's house is being sucked away by pride and arrogance. Please consider ceasing these discussions for they take away from what we need to be doing right now in these end times....praying, fasting, confession, partaking of the eurcharist. There is a time and place for charitable debate but this is becoming anything but charitable and taking away from our current mission.

 

Fatima, would it be possible to provide a link to the on-line source for the commentary you quoted. Thank you.

 

To Fatima:

You wrote:
“Saint Hyppolitus, in his treatise de Anti-Christo, mentioned by Eusebius, Saint Jerome, and Photius, thus writeth: “The churches shall lament with great lamentations, because there shall neither be made oblations, nor incense, nor worship grateful to God. … In those days the liturgy (or mass) shall be neglected, the psalmody shall cease, the reciting of Scripture shall not be heard.””

Saint Hyppolitus of Rome (170–235) lived in 3rd century AD. He wrote about his understanding of the events at the End of Times. Many Christians, including many great theologians of the past, thought that they were living at the End of Times. So, it is not surprising that Saint Hyppolitus of Rome believed that his times is the End of Times.

This point is very important because of Daniel 12:8-10. Let us take a look at this passage:

Hoping that the words that were “closed up and sealed”, as Daniel 12:9 said, were due to be unsealed in his particular time, Saint Hyppolitus of Rome wrote his commentary on Daniel’ Prophecies. Saint Hyppolitus of Rome was the great Christian theologian, and, of course, we should pay attention to his commentaries.

But, we can rely on the commentary of Saint Hyppolitus of Rome with 100% assurance only and only if the End of Times started in 3rd century AD. Otherwise the words that were “closed up and sealed” in Daniel’s time, were still “closed up and sealed” in the 3rd century AD.



You wrote:

The same what was said about Saint Hyppolitus of Rome also applies to the “able commentators” of the past. Believing that the words that were “closed up and sealed”, as Daniel 12:9 said, were due to be unsealed in their particular time, the able commentators of the past wrote their commentaries. But, their commentaries are not 100% reliable if the End of Thimes did not start at their particular time.

Now, what are we doing here on this website? Believing that we are at the End of Times, we are trying to unlock Daniel’s Prophecies. We are doing our best to give the explanation of the events at the End of Times. But, again, our explanation of the events of the End of Times may be right only and only if we are actually living at the very End of Times. Otherwise the words that were “closed up and sealed” in Daniel’s time, are still “closed up and sealed” in our time.

The End of Times may happen, for example, 1,000 years from now. That means that our explanation of Daniel’s Prophecies may be correct only and only if there is a proof, a strong Biblical support, that we are indeed living at the End of Times. Otherwise, it would be an utter arrogance on the part of anyone to claim that the Daniel’s Prophecies are unlocked.


Now, I would like to say a couple of words about “arrogance”. It would be utter arrogance on my part to suggest that the Roman Catholics should become the Orthodox Christians. It would be an utter arrogance on my part to say that it was the Roman Catholic Church that caused the schism, without giving a strong historical evidence.

However, it was not considered “arrogance” when Eamonn wrote a following:

“I think you are forgetting that the Russian Orthodox Church is in a schism, in the case of the Russian Church it was because the Russian Church refused to recognize the authority of the pope . So for the last thousand years the Russian Church has been left exposed to the evils of the world by decision of its leaders to leave Gods true church for national and personal interest's. the Russian church can hardly be called a universal church as when it was set up it was set up as a Russian Church For a Russian people to the exclusion of all other churches especially the Roman Catholic Church.”

Don’t you think that some double-standard is taking place here?


When it comes to the intellectual debate, each participant of the debate is supposed to present a strong argument and to support his or her argument with reason and logic. At the same time, each participant of the debate is obliged to destroy his opponent’s argument to the best of his ability, applying reason and logic. These are the well-developed rules and standards of the intellectual debate

If the destruction of the opponent’s argument with reason and logic is viewed by some people as “arrogance” and “pride” – then let me remind to those people that the intellectual debate is just that the intellectual debate, and not a Sunday school prayer.

 

I think Andy these little fall outs have happened in the past, happen now and will happen in the future.

When people believe things very strongly they are inclined sometimes to express themselves very strongly. It is regrettable but kinda par for the course. I don't think it is so very bad compared to what I have seen in other forums.

Sadly I cannot police everything as there are so many posts nowadays. But as far as I can see this is a volcano that has blown its top and is cooling.

In general I think the forum is cool with the wind of the Spirit,at times very, very cool.

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I was watching Season Five of, 'The West Wing' recently. ahhhhh how I love that show. How many times have I watched it? I have lost count.

But one thing I notice is how much time they all spend on cutting each other up on Capitol Hill. So much thought and energy!

I love the West Wing but I'm glad this forum is not the West Wing.

 

I don't find it being an intellectual debate when one is uncharitable by calling people ignorant because their beliefs and views of things do not match anothers. When I am debating or discussing I prefer to be charitable and open minded listening to another's point of view and making my own educated decision through the help of personal discernment and prayer. I would never want to "destroy" anything. It is not my place to destroy it is my place in this world to love as Jesus loved. Love God above all things and love our neighbors as our selves. One can have strong opinions on their beliefs but at the end of the day they are still opinons and interpretations of things and this can still be wrong because it is not fact. It is fact by one's own perception but that does not indeed make it fact. If it was fact then there would be no need to debate now would there. Pride is a very dangerous thing and I feel we all must be humble and careful. It was Pride that made the devil fall and I feel it is the devil's greatest tool to use against us since he knows it so well. I would also caution anyone trying to name who the antichrist is because this is passing judgement on another and if you are wrong how terrible to pass judgment and slander another soul whom Jesus told us to love. I will stand by until revealed that only the Lord knows who the antichrist is. Yes one can speculate on things to speculate but I would never want to pound the table declaring that I know without a doubt who the antichrist is and call it fact. There is only one judge and by naming another or slandering a soul that for all we know could be saved by our prayers is a very very dangerous thing for our own soul's destination.

I really want to try and make this my last post on this topic because I truly feel it is detracting us from prayer and in so detracting other souls on Earth and in Purgatory who we could be praying for instead.

Peace to all of you in this discussion and debate but please try to be charitable and loving like Our Lord and Our Pope are. Love, try not to destroy.

God Bless!

 

concernedforusa... we will just have to agree to disagree with each others positions on this. I have quoted scripture only on my first post to show my belief and some prophecy from early Church Fathers from my last post. Now I will show current prophecy from www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org to bring home my belief in the issue being discussed. I know you will not accept it, but many do.
11/06/07 on the Beast

My son, the largest number of converts will come from the pagan religions. Many
Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and tribal peoples will accept my mercy and truth because
of the warning. My church will experience a large amount of growth in those areas. I will
need my faithful to teach these converts. Many miracles will take place at this time.
Bilocation and other miracles assisted by my angels will occur. My faithful may be
teaching in different areas of the world. After the warning, there will only be a short time
given to mankind to repent. If no repentance is done, I will allow Satan and the antichrist
to chastise a sinful generation. At this time, many faithful will be: called home,
persecuted, martyred, and taken to my refuges. Only those who are not spiritual babies
with my divine life residing in their souls will endure those days and enter my era of
peace. My son, at baptism all my children receive sanctifying grace, but many do not
progress beyond spiritual infancy. I will not lose any the Father has given to me. My
spiritual babies will come home to be with me to prevent the loss of their souls. A soul
who does not partake of my Eucharist remains a spiritual baby. Just as a human baby
must eat solid food to grow to adulthood, so spiritually you must receive my graces
through the sacraments to mature to spiritual adulthood. The body must be fed to grow.
Likewise, the soul must be fed to grow and mature. Satan knows this truth. This is why
he has deceived many of my people with false interpretations of my scriptures. Many
teach the physical nation of Israel is the fulfillment of my scripture. Many teach the
antichrist will resume the Jewish sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to constitute
the abomination of desolation. This is a false teaching, not from God, but from human
understanding. My son, in the book of Daniel, the persecution by the Jews under
Antiochus can be considered a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. But
the complete fulfillment has not yet taken place. At my death, the veil in the temple was
rent in two and the old sacrificial covenant was replaced by my new covenant. My
sacrifice on the cross was the final sacrifice for my peoples’ sin. I am the fulfillment of
the promise to Abraham. I am the seed of Abraham, the son of David, in whom all the
nations of the earth are blessed. My nation of Israel is my church, not the modern nation
of Israel. My people are now all those who become part of my church through sanctifying
grace. The complete fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel of the abomination of
desolation will occur: when the continual sacrifice of the mass is abolished by the false
prophet and the anitchrist. Acceptance of the protestant doctrine of the mass by an
antipope will be the fulfillment of the prophecy. The temple of God is my Holy Roman
Catholic Church. My faithful remnant will be persecuted worldwide with the mass taking
place underground. These conditions will be similar to the early persecutions by the
Romans. The Roman persecutions were a foreshadowing of the persecution and time of
the antichrist. Remember all this will be allowed and take place according to the will of
my Father in heaven. Scripture must and will be fulfilled.
I am warning you again my son and any who will take heed to my warnings. He
who has ears to hear let him hear. A final warning to those who read these words. Do not
wait until the warning to prepare your soul. Prepare your soul now. You may meet your
maker today. I do not promise you tomorrow. Receive my graces today through the
sacraments instituted by myself and given to my church. You will need my divine life in
your soul prior to the warning, to be my witness to the world. After the warning, many
souls will need instruction. Many of these souls will be spiritual babies and will be taken
home, after the warning. If you desire to enter my era of peace, you must be progressing
through my merits and graces to spiritual adulthood, when the warning takes place. This
is my final message from this messenger for my people. For I am the same yesterday,
today, and forever. The time is short. Jesus Christ has spoken to you today. Take heed to
my words. Amen.

 

To: Andy3

You wrote:

Let us investigate this matter from the beginning.

The beginning was when Eamonn wrote a following (on p.10 of Comments):

“I think you are forgetting that the Russian Orthodox Church is in a schism, in the case of the Russian Church it was because the Russian Church refused to recognize the authority of the pope . So for the last thousand years the Russian Church has been left exposed to the evils of the world by decision of its leaders to leave Gods true church for national and personal interest's. the Russian church can hardly be called a universal church as when it was set up it was set up as a Russian Church For a Russian people to the exclusion of all other churches especially the Roman Catholic Church.”

The above comment of Eamonn and the wild accusation toward the Russian Orthodox Church that this comment contained, displayed Eamonn’s ignorance of the actual historical event.

When we have some conflict between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churhes (particularly the Russian Orthodox Church), we do not go to the Catholic’s or Orthodox’s sources. We go to the actual historical records which are presented by historians, the scholars that are neutral in that conflict. These historians do not present “the Catholic view” or “the Russian view”, they present historical facts which actually took place. We can obtain historical information even on Wikipedia.

Please, take a look, on what information received from the Catholic sources Eamonn relied:

"In 1054 A.D. the Orthodox schism started when they said "yes" to God, "yes" to Christ, "yes" to His Church, but "no" to the Pope – the Vicar of Jesus Christ. They do recognize him as "first among equals", but do not recognize his primacy of jurisdiction over all the Patriarchs, Cardinals, and bishops of the Church…..

But all of these things will be reversed by the consecration and the conversion of Russia. Even the "No" of the Orthodox, denying the Papal Primacy in 1054 A.D., will be reversed."

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/reqconsec.asp


This a classic example of the omission of the information.

From the beginning of the Christianity, ALL early Christian Churches recognized the Bishops of Rome as “first among equals”, because the Church of Rome was founded by Peter and Paul. When the Bishops of Rome started to insist on their “primacy of jurisdiction over all the Patriarchs, Cardinals, and bishops of the Church”, ALL other Churches refused and the schism took place in 1054 AD.

So, if the Bishops of Rome had a “primacy of jurisdiction over all the Patriarchs, Cardinals, and bishops of the Church” from the beginning of the Christianity, and, then, , all of the sudden, in 1054, the Russian Orthodox Church refused to accept the Bishops of Rome in such capacity – then the Russian Orthodox Church would be responsible for the schism.

But, it was not what actually happened. The Bishops of Rome were recognized as “first among equals” by ALL other Churches from the beginning of the Christianity. Then, all of the sudden, in 1054 AD, the Bishops of Rome demanded the change in their status. The Bishops of Rome demanded that ALL other Churches accepted their “primacy of jurisdiction over all the Patriarchs, Cardinals, and bishops of the Church”. All other Churches refused. As a result, the Roman Catholic Church separated itself from ALL other Churches, and the schism took place.

The FULL responsibility for the schism lies on the shoulders of the Roman Catholic Church. And this is a historical fact.


I did not say that Eamonn is “ignorant person”, I said that, in this particular case, he displayed his ignorance of the actual historical facts.

That is what I wrote:

I did not say that because Eamonn’s “beliefs and views of things” did not match my beliefs and views. In this particular case, Eamonn’s “beliefs and views” are in a complete contradiction with the actual historical facts. In fact, Eamonn’s “beliefs and views” fly in the face of the historical facts.

But, instead of learning the actual historical facts, Eamonn preferred to throw a wild accusation at the Russian Orthodox Church. In fact, Eamonn accused the Russian Orthodox Church in doing exactly what his own Church, the Roman Catholic Church, did - it is the Roman Catholic Church that bears the full responsibility for the schism, not the other way around.

And it is I who was insulted by Eamonn’s wild false accusations and a very “nice” choice of words which Eamonn has chosen to describe my Church, not the other way around! We clearly have a double-standard on this forum.



You wrote:

I think that these words may be rightfully addressed to Eamonn. His ignorance of the historical facts pertaining to the schism made him feel proud for his own Church, and made him throw wild accusations toward the Russian Orthodox Church. Pride which stems out of ignorance is a very pathetic thing.



You wrote:

That is exactly what I would say about myself. When I do not know the issue, I always say that I cannot give my opinion until I learn the issue. That is what happened with the command from Our Lady of Fatima. I had only a general not the precise information regarding this issue. So, I asked others for information and listened to others’ point of view.

But, when I got all the information and understood what exactly happened, then I could give my explanation and enter the debate.



You wrote:

If you feel aversion to dismantling of your opponent’s argument, then you should not be involved in the debates. Certanily, I would not be happy if a Christian who is debating an atheist on the topic “Does God Exist?” shared your view.



You wrote:

First, this is a common misunderstanding of the word of Jesus. Jesus did not hesitate to pass His judgment on the Jewish religious leaders. Jesus taught us not to judge hypocritically. Do not judge your brother for the speck in his eye if you have a log in your eye. At first, take out the log from your eye, then help your brother to take a speck from his eye.

Second, in my previous comment, I’ve mentioned that, according to Daniel 12:8-10, by the End of Times, the Daniel’s Prophecies will be unsealed, and the Antichrist will be revealed. If we are at the End of Times (and I can prove with a strong support from the Scripture that we actually are), then it should not surprise anyone that God reveals the Antichrist to us.


God Bless!

 

Concerned, I did not mean for you to feel like I was just speaking to you in all of what I said. I apologize that I was not more clear in my response. There were parts for you as well as others in this debate to remember to try to curb their pride and arrogance when in heated debate. I honestly do not wish to debate with you on this topic and am not entering in the debate just talking about what I am viewing and seeing from the "cheap seats". I just honestly do not agree with some of the things you are saying because it is not how I am made. You say you would never want to debate and atheist about whether God exists unless you want to destroy their position and I say that if you try to do that you will never win that debate or further never convert that athesist because one would become a hypocrite speaking of God and His love to an atheist but the person showing anything but love towards them in their debate. Words are as sharp if not sharper than a sword. The devil uses our tongues as his greatest weapon to lash out at others. I prefer to remember what Jesus said to Peter in the garden adn apply that to my words. If you live by the sword you will die by the sword. It is a very simple concept for me as is the love of Jesus. I am not a theologian or high biblical scholor but that does not mean that I do not clearly or at least think that I clearly see the error in trying to persuade someone of their found knowledge by going at it without love as the basis. You are basically saying that my own thoughts and logic on Jesus are wrong and this is a common mistake. Wrong by whose standards? Yours? Jesus did say to take the log out of your eye before you can judge but who can honestly say that they have taken the log out of their eye? Jesus also told he without sin cast the first stone and guess what, no one could throw a stone. I feel these sayings are very similar. God does not have to make the antichrist known to us because the antichrist will do this for himself. Until that time comes, to name someone as this is passing judgement or throwing stones when they still have the log in their own eyes or sin in their life. Jesus could be harsh and pass judgement because he was without sin. We are not and will never be even at our deaths. We are miserable, unworthy sinners until we die and only God in his love and mercy will purify us for the sins we have committed in our lives against Him. Even the humblest and purest saints like St. Gemma went to their deaths as a sinner giving her poor soul to the Lord. I would never be as bold to claim that I have been able to remove the log from my own eye to pass judgement on another but that is me and my beliefs which are not what I am trying to push on anyone just discussing to make one think about their own selves. We must be humble and suffer for the Lord as He suffered for us. We must love one another, everyone and all our whole lives and pray for them, the sinners, the atheists, the evil ones, etc. Even the worst of the worst I will pray for them and their conversion to try to save every soul from the fires of hell. That is what we should be tasked with in this life in my opinion. Love and pray for all even on our death bed. As I lay dying I hope my last thought is a prayer to God to please give me one more soul to be released from purgatory and one more soul to be converted. I do not want to feel like Oscar Schindler did or at least was portrayed to have felt in the movie Schindler List by saying to the Lord, "I should have done more."




St. Gemma of Galgani last words before death:

"Now it is indeed true that nothing more remains to me, Jesus. I recommend my poor soul to Thee...Jesus!"

 

Sigh .

I am thinking of closing this thread, there seems to be nothing but fights on it, a bit like a lump of meat gone bad.

Anyone agree? Disagree?

 

Sorry Padraig. You don't have to close it. ConcernedforUSA had every right to call me out because I was not clear in my post and after reading back through what I wrote it certainly reads as if I was just singling out her and not the overall tone of the discussion by all parties in this thread which again I am greatly sorry because it is not my intention to be uncharitable or loving to anyone. I will stop discussing. There may be some value to this thread still now and in the future.

 

To Fatima:

In your last comment you presented a prophecy of Cletus Schefferds. I have no doubts that Cletus Shceffers lived the holy life and he deserves our love and utter respect. But, as I said before, we can rely with 100% assurance only on the Prophecies in the OT and in the NT and on the Words of Our Lady of Fatima. All other prophecies should be accepted with a certain degree of reservation. Cletus Schefferds is not a Prophet of the OT or the NT. His prophecies are not included in the OT or in the NT. I have no doubts that Cletus Schefferds was an honest holy man. Nevertheless, we cannot rely on his prophecies with 100% assurance.


As I previously told, we are able to unseal Daniel’s Prophecies only and only if we live at the End of Times. And, using a strong Biblical support, I can prove that we indeed live at the End of Times.

As I previously told, the key for unsealing Daniel’s Prophecies can be found in Daniel’s Prophecies themselves, in all End of Times Prophecies in the OT and in the NT, and in the Words of Our Lady of Fatima.


You presented the quote (in bold red) from in Cletus Schefferds’ writings:

The purpose of presenting this quote in bold red is obvious: you are trying to say that Satan deceived me with false interpretations of God’s Scriptures.

I can only say that Satan may deceive anybody. This claim may be applied to anybody,

Satan may deceive me to think that the “middle of the week” of Daniel 9:27 is already a year in the past and that Obama is the Antichrist. But, at the same time, Satan may deceive you to think that Putting is a tool of Satan and that you may absolutely rely on the prophecies of the Saints that are neither in the OT nor in the NT.

And, finally I know several instances when Satan deceived even the Saints.

I am not trying to say that Satan deceived Cletus Shceffers. That is NOT what I am trying to say. Cletus Shceffers was an honest holy man. He absolutely believed in what he wrote. In his writings, Cletus Shceffers presented the words of God the Father. It may be just a literary device, meaning that Cletus Shceffers presented his own words and he expected the readers to understand it. But it may be that Cletus Shceffers sincerely believed that these words were actual words of God the Father.

Let me tell you that the actual words of God the Father, on which we can rely with 100% assurance, are ONLY in the OT and in the NT and in the Prophecy of Our Lady of Fatima.


If we are at the End of Times, we are able to unseal the Daniel’s Prophecies and the identity of the Antichrist. It does not mean that ALL of us will be able to correctly understand and to unlock Daniel’s Prophecies, it means that some of us will be able to do so.


Let us take a look at some quotes from Cletus Shceffers that you presented:

By the way, it is absolutely correct. No 3rd Jewish Temple will be rebuilt. And the Antichrist did not, do not and will not resume the Jewish sacrifice. This statement above has a strong support in the Scripture.

Cletus Shceffers wrote:

First of all, it is incorrect to say that the Antichrist and the false prophets are different persons. This notion has no support in the Scripture. The Beast from the Sea is entity, not a person. The Beast from the Sea represents a false religion of Islam, its false god Allah, who is actually Satan himself, and it represents the conglomerate of Islamic countries. The Beast from the Earth is the Antichrist. The Antichrist or the Beast from the Earth in Revelation 13 is the same person as a false prophet in Revelation 19:20. This has a plenty of support in the Scripture.

To believe that the Antichrist and the false prophets are different persons, you must believe that the quote above is the actual words of God the Father. Do you have any proof that these are actual words of God the Father? I do not think so.

I have no doubts that Cletus Shceffers sincerely believed that he quoted the actual words of God the Father. At the same time, I have no doubts that the above quote is not the words of God the Father because these words contradict the Scripture.


Second, what proof do you have that it is the Mass that will be abolished? You have nothing except the comments of Saint Hyppolitus of Rome and “able commentators” of the past.

Now, as an additional proof, you presented me with words of Cletus Shceffers, who sincerely believed that these were the words of God. Let me tell you that Cletus Shceffers is not completely independent source. He was heavily influenced by the comments of Saint Hyppolitus of Rome and “able commentators” of the past and, because of that he wrote what he wrote, believing that those are the words of God.


The Biblical support and Biblical proof is found not in writings of Saint Hyppolitus of Rome or the “able commentators” of the past or Cletus Shceffers, but it is found ONLY in the OT and in the NT and in the Words of OUR Lady of Fatima.


Let us take a look at Daniel 9:24-27

"24. “Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[b] sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy

25. Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street[c] shall be built again, and the wall,[d]
Even in troublesome times

26. “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

27. Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate"

The whole prophecy is confined to one geographical location. And this is Jerusalem, the capital of the state of Israel. Prophet Daniel talks only and only about Jerusalem!

Seventy “weeks” were given to the holy city of Jerusalem, there was a command to rebuild and restore Jerusalem, the Messiah was crucified in Jerusalem, Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem.

The Antichrist was supposed to “confirm a covenant with many for one week” in Jerusalem (and, by the way, he already did it).

And “in the middle of the week” of Daniel 9:27, the Antichrist was supposed to “cause to put on hold the bloody sacrifice (animal sacrifice) and oblation” in Jerusalem. And he did it on Nisan 10, 2013! This has a strong support in the Scripture and I can prove it. I’ve already mentioned this in my previous comment. This event has nothing to do with the Mass.


One can only claim that he has a very strong support of the Scripture only and only if his arguments are supported by ALL the totality of the Scripture, by ALL the End of Times Prophecies in the OT and in the NT, and not by just few verses. And I make this precise claim. To prove it, I started posting my papers on this website.

And what do we have from you? We have your assertion that Putin is the tool of Satan. This assertion is not based on the End of Times verses in the OT or in the NT. Instead this assertion is based on the prophecies of the Saints which are not included in the OT or in the NT, and, therefore, are not 100% reliable.


God Bless!

 

To Andy3:

I humbly apologize that I thought that you were talking only about me in your last comment. I am truly sorry for my mistake.

With that said, I just want to clarify my stand on the issue of the debate.

You wrote:

I am constantly watching the debates between Christians and atheists. And I know what our Christian debaters always say. They say that they do not intend to win their atheists opponents to Christianity, as a result of the debate. Their atheist opponents invest enormous efforts in the debates, and it is very unlikely, almost impossible, to persuade them to change their minds. The real goal of our Christian debaters is to win to Christianity the audience, which may be titillating in one and in the other side. They must persuade the audience that their argument is right and strong. And they can do it only by dismantling their opponents’ arguments one by one. Out Christian debaters are targeting the audience during the debate. If they are successful, they can win to Christianity many, many people, instead of just one – the atheist opponent, whom it is almost impossible to win.

When I debate my opponent (whoever it may be), I know that it is very unlikely to persuade him or her to accept my argument. My real target is all people on this forum who might silently participate in the debate. My real goal is to persuade those people to take another look at the Biblical Prophecies from another angle. If this goal is achieved, then, half of business would be done.



You wrote:

Believe me, I am not participating in this forum to just show off how “smart” I am, and I am not here to just win the debates. I am here to show that there might be another angle from which we all should take a look at the End of Times Prophecies. I am sure that this angle is the right angle. But, let us assume that this angle just might be right. If I can persuade you to pay attention to this angle, it may save lives.

Instead of doing here what I am doing, I could enjoy myself by reading a book or watching a TV. But, if this angle is right, and I did not want to bother myself with letting people know, like Oscar Schindler, I will be saying to the Lord, “I should have done more”.


God Bless!

 

Concernedforusa.

How do Orthodox Christians like yourself interpret Christ's words about the primacy of Peter?
'You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church'.