Has Russia been Consecrated-Excellent read!

Talk about long sermens,WOW....LOL I gave a SNIPPET! I left out the part of
original sin... SO APPLYS TO US ON THE fORUM!!!

 

I don't agree with your presentation here. You leave out decades of Spanish evangilazation of Mexico and there cries to our Lady for Help! you equate the triumpth of our Lady of Guadalupe after decades of prayer and service, as par with the first fruits of the consecration of Russia....The Church doesn't teach the triumpth of the Immaculate Heart has happened, she is waiting in anticipation for our Holy Mother to help us !

If I wasn't so slack I would post the Spanish missionary activity to the New World and the King of Spains Consecration of the western world to our Lady. And blessed by several Popes before our Lady appeared in Tepeyac
So in short our Lady didn't appear and in one Decade paganism ceased.....Much prayer and suffering of the faithful offerd to our Lord brought our Sweet Mothers Blessed aid.....Ave Maria

 

Actually that is exactly what happened. Here is a quote of the article linked below:
The news of the appearance of the Indian mother who left her imprint on the tilma spread like wildfire! Three points were appreciated by the native population. First, the lady was Indian, spoke Náhuatl, the Aztec language, and appeared to an Indian, not a Spaniard! Second, Juan Diego explained that she appeared at Tepeyac, the place of Tonantzin, the mother god, sending a clear message that the Virgin Mary was the mother of the true God, and that the Christian religion was to replace the Aztec religion. And third, the Indians, who learned through pictures and symbols in their culture of the image, grasped the meaning of the tilma, which revealed the beautiful message of Christianity: the true God sacrificed himself for mankind, instead of the horrendous life they had endured sacrificing humans to appease the frightful gods! It is no wonder that over the next seven years, from 1531 to 1538, eight million natives of Mexico converted to Catholicism!

Obviously missionaries and prayer were a part of it, but it was the acceptance of the apparition by the bishop and the following of the request she made that led to the immediate conversion of the vast majority of the Aztecs. For decades before the missionaries had been dying with almost no conversions to how for it. Our Lady appears, is obeyed and voila!

The full article:
http://www.maryourmother.net/Guadalupe.html

 

im sorry ,you over looked my point

 

I totally understand your point but what I am saying is that if the consecration was done as Our Lady had asked it is highly likely that Immediate action would have been taken by heaven to show people that a link between the consecration and the quick change of heart of Russia was to be made. Just as happened in Mexico. Not long drawn out decades or centuries of time between the two events in which no connection will be realized by the populace.

 

In-general!

I'm not one to question the Seat of Rome..I fear God. For who am I.. it begs the question. Under what authority by heaven that bind on earth do you call our blessed Lord's church into question.. who am I.. I AM WHO AM! may beg your answer...

Be very careful. Do not think that you are above God and His eternal celestial council. Assuming you know and know are two different things!

In Gods love, bless you!

 

I am not sure if this was directed partly or entirely at me or not, but if I have offended you in any way or said anything you took as blasphemous I humbly apologize. Such was not my intent.

 

I think were closer to agreement than what we read from our posts, just my gut feeling....
Sorry I cant explain our differences any clearer right now, my mind and physical movements are not in sync.... going thru some very very hard times right now.
Not a cop out, just the plain old truth....
If you would be so kind and say a prayer for me
I so related to your conversion story, similar stories!
Thanks in advance and Blessings to you!

 

'In-general'

No. No! I do not wish to attack anyone, but air the truth. I do not have the time or a set of new eyes to read everthing, but I see, sense here and there division - father of lies. All I want is Christian love and understanding; unity; growth of the spirit. United as one in our efforts for all souls.

God bless!

 

Lifting you up in prayer to Our Lady!

Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

 

Yes IJ of P I will indeed say a prayer for you now. I have also had some very difficult times the past few years so I sympathize.

Spirit of Truth I also do not wish to bicker and cause division. I am sorry if it seemed to turn into that. I am new to the forum and in fact have never posted anything online before last week, so I may be unsure of how my "tone" comes across. I will try to be more aware in the future.

We all have to remember that none of us here knows the absolute correct answer to any of these questions. I try to remember that myself. There are many issues I have done a 180 on as I learned more. That is why in my first post I said there are good arguments on both sides, but I am leaning one way at this point.

We also have to remember that in the end we are all on the same side, though we see things differently according to what God has chosen to allow us to know at any one point.

 

Yes, you are correct, Praetorian, such conversions actually responded quickly to the miracle of the apparitions of Guadalupe (documented):


The news of the appearance of the Indian mother who left her imprint on the tilma spread like wildfire! Three points were appreciated by the native population. First, the lady was Indian, spoke Náhuatl, the Aztec language, and appeared to an Indian, not a Spaniard! Second, Juan Diego explained that she appeared at Tepeyac, the place of Tonantzin, the mother god, sending a clear message that the Virgin Mary was the mother of the true God, and that the Christian religion was to replace the Aztec religion. And third, the Indians, who learned through pictures and symbols in their culture of the image, grasped the meaning of the tilma, which revealed the beautiful message of Christianity: the true God sacrificed himself for mankind, instead of the horrendous life they had endured sacrificing humans to appease the frightful gods! It is no wonder that over the next seven years, from 1531 to 1538, eight million natives of Mexico converted to Catholicism! 4


............The miracle of Our Lady of Guadalupe led to a tidal wave of conversions. The few missionaries that initially were met with resistance became overwhelmed with baptisms, preaching, and instruction in the faith. An early missionary, the Franciscan Father Toribio de Benavente, recorded in his Historia de Los Indios, published in 1541, that "I have to affirm that at the convent of Quecholac, another priest and myself baptized 14,200 souls in five days. We even placed the Oil of Catechumens and Holy Chrism on all of them." 6

http://www.maryourmother.net/Guadalupe.html

 

Oops! Sorry Praetorian.....didn't see your own first reference to same article above that I used as well. It is a well documented article. I was just responding to your earlier comment on previous page and had happened upon the same article.

 

Not a problem. It can't be stressed too many times that Our Lady is amazing!

 

Sorry, not sure how I messed that above post up but I meant to say:

You know I can't help but wonder that the consecration was done but because of the long delay from when our Holy Mother requested it that it did not have the same effect (or affect? I can never get it right) in that the fruits would occur just not immediately if we had obeyed her requests from the beginning. At Guadalupe the conversions were immediate because I believe the messages were delivered and embraced right away after the miracle. But it does not appear so at Fatima. So the fruits may not have been as great. Just a thought.

God Bless!

 

I have always believed that the consecration of Russia had been accomplished in 1984, yet reading the arguments here to the contrary, a seed of doubt was planted. After prayer and pondering I am pleased to say that I still believe that Russia has been Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in 1984.

For the following reasons;

1) When you look at what Our Blessed Mother actually said to the children on the 13th July 1917.

"You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted,and a period of peace will be granted to the world".

To prevent what?

World war 2 !!

2) In the last apparition of Our Lady to Lucia of June 13, 1929:

"Our Lady then said to me: ‘The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father, in union with all the Bishops of the world, to make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means. There are so many souls whom the Justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I have come to ask reparation: sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.’"

This was before ww2 !

And each time the Popes attempted to consecrate Russia prior to ww2, it was not accomplished for various reasons and therefore Russia was able to spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. As we still see and live today.

I believe even though Russia was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart in 1984 its legacy of errors had spread and continued to spread which has infected/affected the whole world.


Just like a wild fire destroys and moves on; where it started may now be out and even watered but the destruction has moved on to threaten, burn and destroy others.

 

hi Josephite
Maybe I am just being thick but are you saying you believe the Consecration has been done?
Your comments seem to suggest otherwise. I am not saying you are right or wrong. I am just not sure what you are saying.
Some questions remain. Russia may have been Consecrated but
1 Was Russia consecrated according to Her Instructions.
2 Was the way Russia was consecrated sufficient to preserve the world from further conflict.
3 Have the errors and attitudes of contemporary Russia, not necessarily the old regime, but current drives of wealth and exploitation and neglect and abuse of the poor and vulnerable, spread across the world.
4 Have the evils of Communism especially in North Korea and China been eliminated. Remember these started as the errors of Russia.
5 Has the world really enjoyed peace since 1917. That is when the Ukraine war started and it is still going on.
If Mary's conditional promises have not been fulfilled then perhaps the Consecrations have been somewhat lacking. Why has no acceptable explanation, reason or excuse been given for not complying with Mary's wishes as she expressed them?

 

Yes I am saying I believe the Consecration of Russia has been done in 1984 by Pope John Paul 11. I believe what davidtlig cited is correct.

I believe that well after WW2 in 1984, the consecration was accommplished.

But by then, the errors of communism had already spread.

Does this nullify Our Lady's promise 'That in the end, Her Immaculate Heart will triumph'?

No it just changes the timeframe and possibly the order of events.

The Immaculate Heart of Mary shall triumph, her Immaculate Heart is also her Sorrowful Heart and here lies some of the beauties and wonders of our Blessed Mother.

She suffers our drawn out rejections, our selfish idolatries and the immence outrages of this world for love of us.

 

Thanks for claryfying that. I was tired and a bit confused. whats new