I am not a fan of political forums. I truly believe the main responsibility we have as Catholic voters is to vote for candidates who do not support abortion in any form, for any reason. I do not believe such a candidate exists right now. Maybe I am wrong. I tend to fall into thinking, what's the use? Our society has gone too far from what the Creator intended. As much as I would like to see our society return to Judeo-Christian values, ie 10 Commandments, I do not see that happening now without Divine Intervention and of course, the Blessed Mother's role. I probably will not vote, deliberately. Sadly. So, yes, I am not a fan of a political thread here.
HH, Like It or No... YOU!! ... & Everyone Else Here Not Living in a Dictatorship .... have a Civic Duty to Vote. It's much more than just the National Scene!! ... It's School Boards, Mayors, City Councils, County Judges, Sheriffs and ... Etc. We are in the Sad State we are in BECAUSE People of Faith & Good Will have decided .. Like You ..... to Opt Out!! .... & That includes the Laity allowing OUR Church to be Hi-Jacked by Radicals & Perverts GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
I did not read that much of a thread. But in view of prophecy it was interesting in that it does indeed point towards waht people like Charlie Johnston have been saying , which is that the uNited States is becomming less and less United. It reminds me of the scripture, Psalm 133:1 How Pleasant to Live in Unity! 1A Song of Ascents, of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity! 2It is like the precious oil upon the head, Coming down upon the beard, Even Aaron's beard, Coming down upon the edge of his robes. The oil that binds is the oil of love, of charity. This charity flows from prayer. Without this oil we become as Nations like an old automobile that has no oil in it. THe engine will sieze and it will simply stop running. We are all Catholics here, brothers and sisters in the deepest possible mysticla way. Yet still even though bound together by mystical and (sicne those who posted were overwhelmingly fro the USA) National ties there should ahve been loads and loads of the oil of love to grease the wheels. Yet, intsead of which there was pretty well a horror picture. This surely should be a concern for the furure of the Union. But maybe all Elctions resulted in a free for all? I don't know. In either case I am sure there are billions of sites were folks can take swings at each other in that great boxing ring of the political cyber world without doing so here. But I can't help wondering, what good does it do? Either we are preaching to the converted or the unconvertable. Here in Ireland I find no one I can in conscience as a Cahthlic vote for. I would rather die than vote for someone who supported the urder of the unborn or sexual perverts. I went to walk the dogs yesterday evening and saw the elction canvassers outside my window. I had already shut the door in their faces and put a flea in their ears for wha they are doing. Worsethey weree friends of mine. But after taking a deep breath I suander forth , embarrased as I was to pass them. They know my views anyway. A slammed door says much.
Right now, Padraig, I am with you....rather die than vote for someone who supports murder of unborn, even contraception, and perversions. So? I abstain. I pray, and do reparation. I like the slammed door. It speaks volumes. I used to feel guilty if I didn't vote, Crew Dog, but I will be judged on my voting actions if I support someone or some issue that is ungodly. Why do the heathen rage and the people devise vain things? Psalm 2 Waaay back in the 1950's, some anonymous person put an ad in the Washington Post every Saturday. It was Psalm 2. Way back then! And think back to the Old Testament. Same thing. The kings conspired against God. But God protected His people, and will continue to do that today. I love the psalm about the oil on Aaron's head and beard, by the way.
In many ways, I feel that who this nation elects as president, is just a reflection of this nations moral or immoral values. It's akin to judgement, we will reap what we sow. We will get the government that collectively we deserve...and looking at how our nation has abandoned our Lord and his commandments, I do not have a lot of hope that the person elected in November will be any different from the values, or lack of values that this once great nation holds. Voting for me is just trying to do what I feel called to do...to the end....fight the good fight. We are always fighting against the evils of this world if we are trying to get to heaven...and I see this as just one more of those evils we are called to stand up against. These good verses evil challenges aren't pretty...they aren't fun....but they are worthy of the effort if we are serious about our duty as children of God. We are not accountable for our success or failure, but we are responsible for our effort. As these threads have sadly degraded to personal insults and unchristian name calling, I voted and agree that it should be closed along with the other political/ election threads. It's a shame because Catholics/Christians should be able to debate/discuss critical national matters just as much as any other life altering issues on this forum. These issues will affect the entire world in one way or another...it is worthy and deserving of debate and attention. We cannot ignore issues because they are unseemly or we feel that they are devisive. Christians/ Catholics need to make their views know in the public square. If we abandoned our responsibility and choose to look the other way because it makes us uncomfortable,then we leave choosing the leadership of this nation and the leadership of the free world to those godless men and women who will take us further down that path to a society that WE as CATHOLIC/CHRISTIANS will suffer further persecution. Who then will we blame but ourselves. If things continue to go badly for Christians in society, and society choses the evil part, then God will allow us our free will, and we will get the government that we rightly deserve. I pray that if that happens, God in His mercy will send the "warning" to open all of our eyes to the real truth of the condition of all of our souls. We are a nation and world deeply in need of an awakening and Gods mercy.
Our eyes are opening already. The turmoil today is in protest against the corruption of all governments. It's the struggle of those in power trying to hold on to their warped philosophies, and the struggle of those trying to get through the phony noise of a Pharisee type conservatism. Christ was a rebel in biblical times, and He's still one today. He shut down the money changer's, but he didn't shut those who were looking for answers. If you can't handle discussion, how will you be able to answer His questions during the Warning? Some of us just want to be heard.
It such an intersting question , 'What role are Catholics called to play in political life?' it made me think and pray. I wondered at once what Jesus did? The first though of course was the Scripture? John 18:36 Jesus Before Pilate …35Pilate answered, "I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?" 36Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." 37Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."…
..another piece of Scirpture that sprung at once to mind was during Christ's forty days in the desert when Satn, whom Chirct called, 'The Prince of this World' offered Jesus power over all the Kingdoms of the Earth (in other words political power and Jesu rejected the political path: Matthew 4:8 The Temptation of Jesus …7Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'" 8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."… View attachment 4815
..again another apt piece of Scripture. The lawyers test Jesus by asking Him a question abot paying taxes to Rome (the occupying power) to which Christ responds... Mark 12:17 Paying Taxes to Caesar …16They brought one. And He said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" And they said to Him, "Caesar's." 17And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him. View attachment 4816
So here we have Jesus in a very highly charged political mileau. His country occupied by a very brutal Imperial Power. In many ways it reminds me of the continental States just prior to the Revoultionary War when unjust taxation was imposed on the new Americna colonists. Jesus could ahve advised on revolutioon and easily led it. But jesus reminds us that this is not His path nor the path of Chirsitans for our Kingdom is not of this World. In other words Jesusopts out and I don;t think there can be any doubt of this. In other words He remains steadfastly non political.
Moving on then to St Paul and the early Christians , what do they have to tell us? Again we have here ,very clearly an apolitical stance. St Paul tells us to be obedient to Governemnt. The question does not arise if the Government is fair or right, for the Christian's homeland is not of this World. Our true home is the Kingdom of GOd. Romans 13:1 Submission to Authorities 1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.…
But most strikingly is St Pauls Letter to Philoman. St Onesimus , a slave has escaped from his master and St paul in writing to the saints master, Philomen , asks him to take Onesimus back again! THis to me is probably the most apolitical section in the entire bible. Paul’s Plea for Onesimus 8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— 10 that I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me. 12 I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13 I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. 15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord. 17 So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18 If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. 20 I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. 21 Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.
It seems to me that the Church has always done best when it is free with political involvemnt and actually seems to do best when it is most persecuted. As for the Church , so I suspect for individuals . Our Kingdom is not of this World. Satan rules this world, so as St Paul tells us: 2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore, "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." For their ways or not our ways nor our ways, theirs
View attachment 4818 View attachment 4817 Padrig, Your post here hold much merit! A fair compromise might be to suggest that as faithful Catholics/Christians, we allow the bible to dictate the principles of the character/person that we choose to lead our nation and the free world. I found this article that I think is a good guide for just that. Why the Bible Is the Best Voters Guide http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-the-bible-is-the-best-voters-guide-83688/ "Does God, in the Bible give His people direction for how to identify worthy civil leaders?" We know there are requirements for pastors but what about civil leaders? Are there commands? Are there examples? Are there principles that would guide us? The answer is, yes! God in His kindness, has not left us alone and without revealing His thoughts and giving us His principles for the selection of civil leaders. In fact, God explicitly declares in Scripture the kinds of civil leaders you ought to vote for. Shepherd, God gives guidance to His people for what kinds of leaders to select. It is a great gift to His people that He would show us how to identify good leaders. While there are many places in the Bible to go for answers, there are four key texts which give us clarity on the subject: Exo. 18:21, Deut 1:9-17, Deut.17:14-20 and Rom. 13:1-10 CONTINUE READING THE ATTACHED LINK "What principles will be guiding you as you prepare to cast your vote this November? How will you make your decision? How will you evaluate the candidates? So before you consult all the other voting guides, make sure you have rightly prioritized the words of Scripture above all the other voices for how you analyze the candidates. After all, the Bible is the best voting guide you will ever have."
Thank you Padraig for the wise words from Scripture. I totally agree that Jesus respected the machinery of government, although refused to operate it. His work here on earth was to dedicate Himself entirely to His Father of heaven, as is the main mission of His followers our saints. But not all of us have a calling for sainthood or martyrdom, so having the obligation to God and to Caesar is of the utmost importance to most of us. Jesus taught us to find the right balance between the responsibilities toward God and our obligation toward secular government. He taught us to make sure governments maintain a measure of order by requiring citizens to be honest, to pay taxes, and to uphold the law. After all His parents obeyed the law, even when doing so was inconvenient. God bless.
We are all called to sainthood. If you are not a saint then you are on the other team. We are all saints...some just happen to be all in.
