Again, it is great that we are giving the topic of contrition, confession etc so much thought - if it wasn't for this discussion I wouldn't have bothered looking up the Sacrament of Penance in Canon Law. And maybe because I'm lazy God gave me plenty to think about in the first two lines . I've underlined the parts that make me think that when we put limits on how God's mercy works, we are ultimately damaging ourselves... THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE (Cann. 959 - 997) Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning. CHAPTER I. THE CELEBRATION OF THE SACRAMENT Can. 960 Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the only ordinary means by which a member of the faithful conscious of grave sin is reconciled with God and the Church. Only physical or moral impossibility excuses from confession of this type; in such a case reconciliation can be obtained by other means. My thoughts are - if your not a 'faithful' member of the Church then your sins don't necessarily wound the Church ????...along the lines of - you can't commit adultery if neither of you are married. - confession and absolution are the 'ordinary' means of reconciliation... but surely God can and will use extra-ordinary means as and when He sees fit???
There is nothing to fear in Sacred Scripture when you are a faithful Catholic. Indeed the Church encourages us to read and study Holy Scripture. CCC: 131 "And such is the force and power of the Word of God that it can serve the Church as her support and vigor, and the children of the Church as strength for their faith, food for the soul, and a pure and lasting fount of spiritual life." Hence "access to Sacred Scripture ought to be open wide to the Christian faithful."
I read scripture almost daily. I said I do not interpret it on my own, as one sentence could be interpreted several different ways. The church is the living authority of scripture, and as such, has interpretted it for us.
Once upon a time I looked into the meaning of ex cathedra and found there isn't a unanimous definition. Of course I know the three guidelines but can you find me a definitive post, unfallible, on what church teachings have been declared infallible.
Here is what I am talking about. I guess you, littleme, consider yourself to be THE definitive expert on papal infallibility. Sorry, I don't buy it. Give me a resource that defines infallible teachings of the catholic church. . . 17down voteacceptedYou can simply read Vatican I. Its extremely clear. A true Pope (not an antipope or heretic claiming to be the Pope), when speaking on a matter of faith or morals (not economics or science) when speaking to the universal Church (not a letter to a friend) is guided by the Holy Spirit. when the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church, shareimprove this answer edited Aug 13 '13 at 20:57 answered Sep 16 '11 at 14:43 apocalypse_info_click_here 85339 Excellent answer! That is indeed very clear. – dancek Sep 17 '11 at 18:24 That may seem clear to some, however the idea and language of infallibility has evolved over hundreds of year and has many nuances. Most experts will agree that Popes have spoken infallibly at least twice, but there is much debate about if and when there have been other times. Intention, language, form, authority and other objections are often raised. There is a nice intro here if you are interested: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… – MSKI Feb 23 at 3:19 17down voteacceptedYou can simply read Vatican I. Its extremely clear. A true Pope (not an antipope or heretic claiming to be the Pope), when speaking on a matter of faith or morals (not economics or science) when speaking to the universal Church (not a letter to a friend) is guided by the Holy Spirit. when the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church, shareimprove this answer edited Aug 13 '13 at 20:57 answered Sep 16 '11 at 14:43 apocalypse_info_click_here 85339 Excellent answer! That is indeed very clear. – dancek Sep 17 '11 at 18:24 That may seem clear to some, however the idea and language of infallibility has evolved over hundreds of year and has many nuances. Most experts will agree that Popes have spoken infallibly at least twice, but there is much debate about if and when there have been other times. Intention, language, form, authority and other objections are often raised. There is a nice intro here if you are interested: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… – MSKI Feb 23 at 3:19
This is my last post about this, as it is very distracting. First Vatican Council " the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is to say, when discharging the functions of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith and morals to be held by the Universal Church, he fully enjoys by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, the same infallibility with which our Divine Redeemer intended His Church should be endowed for defining doctrine concerning faith and morals..." So infallibility doesn't cover everything that every pope says. When he speaks as a private person, infallibility is not promised. A popes personal thoughts are never treated as sacrosanct. If you read the definition given at Vatican 1 you will realize that you will find the ex cathedra definitions in the DOCTRINES of the church. If you're looking for disciplines - then canon law is where you will find that. The last thing I intended to do here is start a war. I'm sorry that I have upset you. My family will included you in our rosary (that's 7 rosaries said for you ) and maybe you could kindly include me in yours.
No reply or war wanted. My only point is that when talking about "no salvation outside the church" and infallibility one should exercise extreme caution. Only those belonging to St Pius 10 society would argue about the narrowness and back it up with the infallible teachings of the church. I should know, I did it once upon a time.
The main word is may, doesn't mean will. Too many variables to be God and Divine Judge. Maybe the question is "can atheists go to heaven". Even Papa Francis would agree its possible...maybe not probable. When a good man uses natural law and his/her conscious to live righteous life. Is he/she better off in the eyes of God...then that person who knew God was real but did not live up to full potential. Too many variables to judge others on earth. Those that have been given more by God, have a greater challenge to enter the kingdom of heaven. Will and intent become the great variables in Gods Divine Judgement. Not sure, we can ever really argue, who is going to heaven. I can't quote scripture or cannon law...but I know i am not speaking heresy. May Gods Will be Done
It is a sad reality that I know some atheists or agnostics who live better lives than some people who 'hug the altar'. What we are often missing in this conversation about who is saved and redeemed is the inescapable fact that it is Catholics who have given the Church a bad name because of a lack of authentic witness to Christ and His Church. Let our judgements begin with the House of God and with ourselves. Who of us here can cast the first stone? Too many easy words and not enough holiness. Let us examine our own lives and see the faults and failings and the beams in our own eye and not the speck in our brothers. Too many preach from high altars and don't have the substance to back it up. We need to confess - the Church is in this mess because of me. Stop looking elsewhere! There is too much self-righteousness and I have to agree with the Pope about self absorbed promethean neo-pelaginainsts! The other is the self-absorbed promethean neopelagianism of those who ultimately trust only in their own powers and feel superior to others because they observe certain rules or remain intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past. A supposed soundness of doctrine or discipline leads instead to a narcissistic and authoritarian elitism, whereby instead of evangelizing, one analyzes and classifies others, and instead of opening the door to grace, one exhausts his or her energies in inspecting and verifying. In neither case is one really concerned about Jesus Christ or others. These are manifestations of an anthropocentric immanentism. It is impossible to think that a genuine evangelizing thrust could emerge from these adulterated forms of Christianity. What is the greatest hindrance to the growth of Catholicism? Catholics!
Meeting 200 Pentecostals, pope renews friendship, talks unity Plenty of food for thought in this article... but I don't think it's ex-cathedra... but then that's a term I still haven't come to terms with! http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1403121.htm
Pope Francis "Pope Benedict XVI was right when he said, "The church grows not through proselytism, but through attraction, And attraction is "human empathy guided by the Holy Spirit." What is more attractive and beautiful than holiness? If more Catholics including myself were holy, more people would be coming into the Church. A few more Padre Pio's could turn the world right around!
A great report there. I copy just 2 paragraphs from it: Pope Francis told the Pentecostals that "the Holy Spirit is the source of diversity in the church. This diversity is very rich and beautiful. But then the same Holy Spirit creates unity. And in this way the church is one in diversity. To use a beautiful Gospel phrase that I love very much, reconciled diversity" is the gift of the Holy Spirit. "Among those who persecuted and denounced the Pentecostals, almost as if they were crazies who would ruin the race, there were some Catholics. As the pastor of the Catholics, I ask forgiveness for those Catholic brothers and sisters who did not understand and were tempted by the devil," Italian news agencies quoted the pope as saying.
