I hear you Kathy. Someone recently said to me ,'You may win the argurement ,yet lose the soul' So a balance with the truth.
Thank God for Catholics like you. I don't think many people in the church today understand WHEN infalibility is promised (ex-cathedra). They believe every word coming out of the current pontiff's mouth as though it were TRUTH. You want TRUTH? LEARN THE CHURCH DOGMAS!! I know I'm preaching to the choir with you Mac. The terms 'love' and 'mercy' have been twisted and have taken on new meaning in the past few decades. 'Love' used to mean BEING TRUTHFUL, now it's 'don't hurt anyones feelings' and 'find common ground'. Is there common ground between truth and lie? Catholics that don't compromise are very rare, in fact i only know a handful. Stand firm.
Using truth as a bludgeon is not love. The TRUTH, Jesus Christ, is love. From His great love for us, Jesus didn't leave us orphans. He made provision that we would always have a Holy Father. Spiritual pride is very sneaky. It's hard to see it in ourselves. I'm sure Father Martin Luther felt quite justified in his righteous indignation at the sin and error he saw in the Church. He judged himself wiser than the Holy Father in his dealings with the abuses and exempt from his direction. Look where it got him! There has never been a Saint of the Church who did not advocate, by word and example, humility, obedience and faithfulness to the Holy Father, and attentiveness to what their superiors taught. Becoming a Saint is the mission of each one of us. How could we not follow the example of our triumphant brothers and sisters??? I beg you to ask the Lord in prayer about your decision to ignore the example and teachings of the Holy Father He's given us for this time.
Pope Innocent III († 1216) stated that a pope can “wither away into heresy” and “not believe” the Faith. “The pope should not flatter himself about his power, nor should he rashly glory in his honour and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory, because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy, because “he who does not believe is already judged.” (St. John 3:18) In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savour, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men.’” (Sermo 4) Pope Adrian VI († 1523) stated that “it is beyond question” that a pope can “err in matters touching the Faith”, he can “teach heresy” in decrees. He also stated “many Roman Pontiffs were heretics”. “If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgement or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII († 1334).” (Quaest. in IV Sent.; quoted in Viollet, Papal Infallibility and the Syllabus, 1908).* (* According to the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia, this work was published in 1512
Kathy k, it is not prideful to speak truth. It is not ME that is truth, it is Our Lord Jesus Christ that IS TRUTH. It is our DUTY to admonish heresy. It is not prideful (satanic) to hold truth firmly and without compromise. I do not "ignore" the pope but i do disagree with much of what he says "off the cuff" or in "unrecorded" interviews. He cannot say "you don't need to go to church to be part of the church" and claim this is truth. It is a lie. The pope is not infallible unless he speaks ex cathedra and a pope CAN be a heretic. God bless
If we look back through history , There has been a few times when it was quite easy to be more Catholic than the Pope.
How can you disagree with what the Holy Father says in unrecorded interviews and off-the-cuff remarks in private if you are not a personal witness to what was said? Be careful where you get your "information" and "news" - the enemy rules the airwaves. Jesus said, "If it were possible, even the elect would be deceived." The only way to safeguard ourselves from deception is being docile to the Holy Spirit, devoted to the Blessed Mother, and faithful to the Church led by the Holy Father.
Did you know that a 'Diocese' is a particular area with boundaries that a Bishop is in charge of that INCLUDES ALL people--Catholic or non-catholic, atheist or pagan or druid... When the Pope said what he said, it was exactly true. You DON'T have to go to Church to be part of it!! Be very, very careful. Know your facts. The media is ignorant and the father of lies twists and turns...
Ive proven to be a failure at guessing games[BH being David] but I'll have another go. I reckon 'Little Me ' knows what a Diocese is.
So I guess what you and Mac are saying is that the last 6 popes were "heretics". Maybe you two can tell the Holy Spirit to do a better job of picking popes for us.
I cant speak for 'Little Me' , But so far I welcome her presence . She is kind of filling the hole left by SteveD, who in my opinion was a voice of reason,from the traditional point of view.[unlike myself ,I admit I can be over the top and unreasonable,and immature..]And I miss him. I expect frustration and discussion with some topics, But to hear from you Pic, one who knows better, to suggest sede vacantism is quite hurtful.When you yourself has had doubts re Luigi Villa. Among other points. What I really notice is that as long as your a Muslim member[zebi] or a false prophet[linda] or promoting nonsense[LTTW] it is a safe and happy forum. But dare quote Dogma and truth ,and the personal attacks start. Stick to the topics.
These topics always stir debate and passions rise. In away, I think it is good- it certainly is not taking the "lukewarm" approach that Jesus warned of His great disdain for. But, and I'm as guilty as the next, are we sinning in a way, where we are placing false idols before God when we label ourselves or others as "liberal"," conservative ", etc.? It seems we almost give that label and all that it means more worship than God Himself? And I think when we do this, we run the risk of not seeing God as He is and certainly cannot even imagine Him at all like the false idols we oppose. I may be looking at this too simply, but I'm going to do my best to not label anyone here or out in the world. And I'm certainly going to try and not put my version of a false idol in the way to block my "view" of God. I think this is really hard and for me a struggle against my human nature, but I've come to believe it's the only way. For in the end, it is Jesus who is the ONLY way, truth and life. I wish peace and pray for all on this forum for you are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I pray that I see and hear Jesus in you and not be blinded by any false idols I've constructed in my life.
In the end we will all be judged on the truth we were given and how we responded to it. Catholics will be held at a higher judgement for they have been given the fullness of the truth. Ommission, or failure to learn the truth because of laziness or indifference is culpable on judgement day as well. Those who have the truth, but lack charity and humility will be culpable as well. Seems to me the best thing we as Catholics can do is pray and do penance for lukewarm Catholics and apostate Protestants and not judge them, lest we be judged.
Sometimes I wonder what all of the fuss is about. This forum is an orthodox Catholic forum <period>. We assent to the teachings of the holy Roman Catholic Church as expressed through Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium. The teaching of the Magisterium includes the teachings of the Ecumenical Councils (including Vatican II), and the teachings of the Popes and all the teachings of Tradition and Scripture and the body of Bishops led by the Pope. So we are Traditionalist too in the proper sense of the word. The teaching of the holy Roman Catholic Church is God's teaching without exception.
This forum is a wonderful place for sharing our faith and discussing the events of the day. I desire to live peacefully with my brothers and sisters, and avoid conflict. But when anyone even implies that the teachings of the Church since Vatican II are to be ignored, or undermines the Holy Father, I must speak. We are not having private conversations; who knows how many who are inching towards the true faith are reading these posts. Woe unto us if anything written here turns even one of these away!
True. However, there are certain things that Pope Francis has said that have proven to be more beneficial to me than others. But I will not publicly criticize the Vicar of Christ. I think it is important for us to remember that this age of virtually instantaneous communication has only been around for about 25 years. Instead of learning about an event days later, it is in my face within the hour! JoeJerk can easily stir my passions to respond with words of calumny and detraction. I must guard my tongue. James 3:5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life , and is set on fire by hell . 7 For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race . 8 But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10 from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.
"Remember me when you come into your kingdom. Indeed I promise you, He replied today you will be with me in paradise. "Luke 23:39-43 God is so good to bestow grace upon those who LOVE Him.
