Sorry David, I didnt write that clearly. Pope Benedict only wrote a letter of thanks to Socci[for his book]...Socci writes, “Obviously, the letter of the Pope to the Prelate is used as an introduction to the book, even if the Pope keeps his words as general as possible. From my point of view, I keep the letter that Benedict XVI wrote to me regarding my book, thanking me for the ‘feelings that suggested its writing’. Words which act as a comfort to me, while I’m facing the insults and the pathetic allegations that I’m ‘playing the game of Masonry’. Since you bring up the subject of authentic documetation ,perhaps we should look a little more closely at what you hold so dear. Sr Lucia's approval of the 1984 consecration.THERE ISNT ANY. Bertone writes...'Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what the Virgin wished[Yes ,it was done as Our Lady requested on March 25 1984' letter of nov 8 1989 All further discussions therefore ,and all further petitions are without foundation. This exremely important passage also contains many oddities.The mode of citing the document that would prove the approbation of Lucia is disconcerting.Letter of November 8 1989. WHICH LETTER? ADDRESSED TO WHOM?PUBLISHED WHERE? there is not even a footnote.Why?And why was a photocopy not produced as with all other writings of Lucia that were cited?No respectable publication, book, or essay would ever cite a document this way, much less something of this importance.
Sister Lucia's correspondence with Cardinal Bertone is a valid document. To say otherwise is to call Bertone a liar and forger.8
Now lets look more closely at the 1984 consecration .A close collababorator of PJII ,Bishop Paul Cordes,vice president of the pontifical council for the laity when he made this revelation in 1990.'IT WAS 1984,AND DURING A PRIVATE LUNCH WITH THE POPE I SPOKE OF THE CONSECRATION HE HAD DONE,I RECALLTHAT HE THOUGHT,SOMETIME BEFORE OF MENTIONING RUSSIA IN THE PRAYER OF BENEDICTION.BUT AT THE SUGGESTION OF HIS COLLABORATORS HE HAD ABANDONED THE IDEA.HE COULD NOT RISK SUCH A DIRECT PROVOCATION OF SOVIET LEADERS.' at any rate PJII AWARE that there had still not been a 'consecration of russia' that day ,wanted to say so in the very midst of his solemn prayer. He departed in fact from the written text and added these words-off the cuff...' Mother of the church,illuminate especially those people of whom you are awaiting our consecration and our entrustment.' the Popes words were reported as such the day after, by L'Osservatore Romano.
We must look into this also, the missing text...Fr. J. Schweigl: I cannot reveal anything of what I learned at Fatima concerning the Third Secret, but I can say that it has two parts: one concerns the Pope; the other logically (although I must say nothing) would have to be the continuation of the words: “In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved” (The Whole Truth about Fatima, Vol. III, p. 74). Pope Pius XII personally sent Fr. Schweigle to interrogate Sr. Lucia about the Third Secret in 1952. There is certainly a missing part[the main part][this is where it gets very interesting.]
So, let me get this straight: you believe Bishop Cordes unsigned anecdote from his "lunch" conversation but you discount Bertone's correspondence with Sister Lucia which was published in the Holy See's official newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, in 2002? That's some strange logic you use. As for signed documents, the book Documents on Fatima contains photographs of original letters in Portuguese in Sr. Lucia's own hand - documents addressed to Sister Mary of Bethlehem and Father Robert Fox, which confirm that the 1984 Consecration was accepted by Heaven. But I am sure you have a conspiracy theory ready to explain how these documents are fake and to explain how Sister Mary and Father Fox are in on it as well.
Forget who said what to whom and when. What did Our Lady ask for - consecration, Russia, Immaculate Heart. Has it been done? No and no amount of discussion will change that.
Wait a minute! In one breath you say " forget who said what " but in the same breath you say I should believe what YOU say. Are you more credible than Bertone, and why?
Not what I said. Objectively it has not been done as prescribed - everyone can acknowledge that because it is true - and no-one is denying it as far as I can see. CONSECRATION OF RUSSIA SPECIFICALLY TO OUR LADY'S IMMACULATE HEART - Has it happened? No it hasn't the words at every consecration or entrustment are a matter of public record. It has never been done.
David said..As for signed documents, the book Documents on Fatima contains photographs of original letters in Portuguese in Sr. Lucia's own hand - documents addressed to Sister Mary of Bethlehem and Father Robert Fox, which confirm that the 1984 Consecration was accepted by Heaven. But I am sure you have a conspiracy theory ready to explain how these documents are fake and to explain how Sister Mary and Father Fox are in on it as well. Just the truth... There exists strong evidence that leads one to seriously doubt or even reject entirely this post card message to the Father Robert J. Fox as inauthentic, i.e., a spurious forgery. Firstly, the card is dated July 3, 1990. So on that date Sister Lucy purportedly stated that the consecration was accomplished on March 25, 1984, and then one reads further on, "Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made". (emphasis mine) The italicized phrase is a proven falsehood, a lie that Sister Lucy would never have stated. Here is what Sister Lucy actually stated after the March 25, 1984, consecration of the world. On July 20, 1987, Sister Lucy stated to Enrique Romero in a subsequently published interview that the Consecration of Russia requested by Our Lady of Fatima is not yet done. In an interview which appeared in the September 1985 issue of Sol de Fatima, Sister Lucy was asked if the Pope fulfilled the request made by Our Lady at Tuy when he consecrated the world on March 25, 1984. Sister Lucy answered: "There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia." The interviewer then asked, "So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?" Sister Lucy answered: "No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act." http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr63/cr63pg11.asp
What "strong evidence?" Who is Enrique Romero and where can I find a primary source document (not a second-hand reference in Fatima conspiracy book) of this alleged interview with Sister Lucia?
David, apparently you, along with Luke, have refused to listen the various youtube video's that many have posted on this thread to answer you question about Bertone's validity in his message. There are so so many contradiction to his own words and it is all documented very thoroughly in these video's you refuse to watch. The Why is in those various video statements he has made. If you are objective towards your opinion you at least own it to yourself to hear both view points. For 30 years I had heard and believed only the view point you hold and now after carefully listening to the contrary evidence, which was not so available in the past, I am completely convinced otherwise.
In thinking about the title of this thread, I was reminded of the following passage from Isaiah 57:14-21, regarding the "path to peace": "And I say: Build up, build up, prepare the way, remove every obstacle from my people’s way. For thus says the high and lofty One, the One who dwells forever, whose name is holy: I dwell in a high and holy place, but also with the contrite and lowly of spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly, to revive the heart of the crushed. For I will not accuse forever, nor always be angry; For without me their spirit fails, the life breath that I have given. Because of their wicked avarice I grew angry; I struck them, hiding myself from them in wrath. But they turned back, following the way of their own heart. I saw their ways, but I will heal them. I will lead them and restore full comfort to them and to those who mourn for them, creating words of comfort. Peace! Peace to those who are far and near, says the LORD; and I will heal them. But the wicked are like the tossing sea which cannot be still, Its waters cast up mire and mud. There is no peace for the wicked! says my God."
Nothing but allegations and innuendo and disobedience and slander towards legitimate Church authorities in those videos.
No, not everyone believes the innuendo that is being peddled here. The Secretary of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith has published his interview with Sister Lucia stating that the 1984 Consecration was accepted by Heaven. Case Closed. The Consecration to Russia has already happened and Pope Francis and future Pontiffs will not redo it. The Fatima Conspiracy Cult is a Big Business - sort of like Medjugorje - and I expect the Vatican is eventually going to have to crack down on both, for the sake of Unity and sparing the Church further Scandal.
When did it happen? I search in vain for any consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Hear of Mary, point me to it please. We know that you are satisfied but several of us are not and your assurances are not going to persuade us. I used to accept what you accept but there is no 'era of peace', there has been no conversion of Russia so we have to believe that Bertone is a liar or that Our Lady is. I have made my choice. I know little about Bertone but I do know that there are and have been cardinals who saw it as their job to destroy Fatima because it does not fit in with purely secular considerations of some Vatican diplomats.
Russia was Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart in 1952. This Consecration did not fulfill Our Lady of Fatima's request - it wasn't done in union with the Bishops - BUT it WAS a valid Consecration in and of itself. In 1984, JPII renewed the perfectly valid 1952 Consecration of Russia (there was no need to repeat the words of the original Consecration) and this time it was renewed with the world's Bishops. In 2002, in an interview published in the Holy See's official newspaper, the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith related his correspondence with Sister Lucia and her statement that the 1984 Consecration was accepted by Heaven. Case Closed.
Russia NOT converted. No era of peace. No valid consecration. Case closed. Our Lady has lied or Bertone has.
