I'm not looking to rekindle any angst here, but I think giving giving labels such as traditionalists, liberals, conservatives, etc is what gets us into "trouble". I also think these labels and potential to fall into any one of these "camps" is IMO a pathway to creating a false idol or your own image of God God is not traditional, liberal or conservative. He is ALL THINGS. He does not fit into our image or our definitions. I think we all are on the "right road" if we follow today's Gospel message of following Jesus who is the ONLY way, truth and life. Sorry for pontificating here and if I took have overstated or am not being charitable, I too will be silent.
Yes its true, St Paul said it all 2000 years ago: 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 A Church Divided Over Leaders 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
There has been a recent spat on the Mysteries of the Rosary thread that has resulted in us losing Blue Horizon from our numbers. I started the disagreement - may God forgive me. What I started probably wasn't appropriate for that thread, and certainly the ensuing disagreement was not in line with the aim of that thread. But I am struggling with what I perceive as BH being ousted for defending me and a point I raised. Both sides of the argument are there to be read so I won't bother to rehash them, but I would like to say that if we 'Catholic Faithful' are willing to fight to the death over issues that are so clouded then what hope have we of evangelising the world? Please God, and forum members, forgive me for my part in it.
No Bart, There are hundreds of thousands of Catholic sites out there he will not be short of somewhere to go. Most of them, I am sure much better than this. It is not about just you or this one incident. I have limited time to be on the forum and very limited time to police it. I am afraid now and again one or two folks have to bite the bullet and this is one of them. We Catholics , perhaps better than anyone else understand the need for discipline. There is no way BH is ever getting back here short of the Warning. Don't blame yourself, it was always heading his way anyway. God Bless, Padraig
You said nothing wrong. I over reacted to your post. I genuinely did not realise there were those who held stories from great saints [ St Louis was nearly made a Doctor of the Church]as myths.Which may make an interesting thread in itself.
...thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven... We are still so far from the kingdom And Mac - I meant no disrespect to St. Louis. And Padraig - I've read some of your personal story recently linked on another thread, and I have to say some of your reflections are jawdroppingly brilliant... and made me wonder did you ever consider giving talks / retreats?
Bart said.. '.And Mac - I meant no disrespect to St. Louis.' Of course , I must admit I thought otherwise. I am sorry for my rash judgement.
Praise indeed , watch my big head Bart. Thanks but I am waiting for a push from Our Lady for something they want me to do once the world changes a little. It is not time yet. ((per cent of the spiritual life seems to be about waiting doesn't it? I think we are all waiting at the moment, it is as if heaven and the world were about to give birth, which in a real sense they are. Things are about to be very,very different for everyone.
I suppose it is like childbirth - you wait nine months then your life changes forever It is the waiting game - just ask Joey Lomangino! One thing I have learnt in this life is that God's timing is completely different from our sense of time. But Padraig alluded to the story of the ten virgins - it is so easy in contemporary society to allow the flame of faith to flicker and die. Prayer and the sacraments are the oil that keep the flame alight in these dark days.
I think so, I say I think so because I find it hard to believe it will ever happen. I know we talk of the changes that are coming and we all , or most of them believe it in our heads and many of us in our hearts as well. But I suspect very,very few of us can come to terms with the lived reality in the new world that is going to come about. Everything we have now will seem like a dream. So if I find it hard to really come to terms with what is coming in general terms it is even harder in specifics. I hear people in work talk about long term plans like paying the mortgage, pensions, savings and so on and in this time the words of Jesus jump out and shout at me: Matthew 6:20 Treasures in Heaven 19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. There are some people who have accepted and already moved to places of refuge. I suppose for them the lived reality has already come. But for the rest of us it is day to day. This is fine too. I think we find God mostly in the day to day and not worrying too much and too constantly about the future. That does not mean not being open to prophecy , but as Jesus said, Matthew 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. ....and isn't THAT the truth? I was watching a film about the New York Mafia Boss John Gotti, leader of the Gambino crime family View attachment 1980 There was a part of the film I found touching and the words so wise. John was led into the film and had as his kind of God father another Capo. This capo John loved and venerated very much. But when he was dying of cancer his last words to John said with great conviction and urgency were, 'John life is but a breath'. So like the words of scripture; 1 Peter 1:24 For, "All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, Ironically John himself died of cancer himself in prison just a few years later. I often think these Mafiosa can teach us so much about the futility senselessness of living far from God. I have been filled with sadness in the past on praying for their souls to find they are in hell and prayer cannot reach them. That is the ultimate failure, the ultimate sadness is it not? Not to go to heaven. If we fail at this all else is just so much nonsense. . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27588572 But one thing I would say of the Mafia and other crime families like the Chinese Triads, the Japanse Yakuza, the Russian Mafia and so on. Well at least they take a big bite out of life and kind of spit in your face. I heard recently of a 'devout' Christian family who are famously mean and nasty people to deal with and treat their workers like dogs. Again the words of Jesus ring out, Revelation 3:15-17 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I have a feeling that Jesus like myself might prefer the Mafiosi in-you-face stuff than this skulking about pretending stuff. Both may wind you up in hell, but better I think to walk into the fires face front than to sneak in pretending. I have wandered all over the place. But I think I meant to say is that our main duty is to get to heaven and bring as many as we can, especially our family there with us. We do this in the ordinary day to day. Life is so short , Eternity stretches before us. We really must as Scripture teaches us work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Looking at the Mafia reminds me of this so much. Poor, poor souls. Prison is nothing. Death is nothing. Torture is nothing. It is what comes after. Poor souls. Poor, poor, poor souls
Amen Padraig! You know, when I was a sophomore in high school (10th Grade), one of my classmates died unexpectedly. Such a young man, very well-liked, and an only child. It was a shock to our school family and his parents. I remember my class attending his funeral and his parents were so sad. Very difficult. Anyway, shortly before he died, during our Religion class in school, we had a project of some sort where this young man -- Bill was his name -- came to the conclusion that our role here on Earth is "to get each other to heaven, not just ourselves." I recall our Religion teacher (a permanent deacon in the Church) being very excited at Bill's insight. Also, not long after Bill died, a commemorative plaque was up at the school in Bill's honor with a picture of him and that quote beneath it. Looking back, I see now that Bill really did "get it" -- perhaps that is why he was called home so soon? You are right, Padraig... and so was Bill. At the end of the day, the goal is heaven, for ourselves and for as many as we can bring with us. Please God, and by God's grace, may each and every one of us bring busloads and busloads to Heaven with us!!
This reminds me of an encounter I had with my brother's girlfriend (forgive me if I've told this before.) She, like the rest of my family, sees me as a religious fanatic, an amusing oddity. Out of the blue, she told me of a dream she had. "A dark figure was holding me down and about to murder me with a big knife. He said, 'Just be still, and it won't hurt much, and it will be over soon.' I started to comply, then I decided to fight. I got away, but was wounded. You found me, and carried me to get help." She got really serious and asked, "Would you really do that for me? Carry me?" I said, "Absolutely!" And I thought, "I'm carrying you to the Divine Physician every day in prayer." So interesting - she knows in her soul that I'm carrying her!
What a story Kathy!!! I have been troubled of late because here I am all of sudden this devout man of faith when only 15 months ago I was far away from the church of my youth and the God I once loved. I have been troubled because even though I changed the world around me with family and friends has stayed the same. My eyes have been opened and yet now I am the devout "nutter" in my family who some accept and who others hurl insults at me. It is tough but also it is not. It is tough to change everything that you were to become now what you are. Others just don't understand that especially spouses! I pray all the time to Mother Mary to touch my wife's heart as she has touched mine. This has weighed heavy on my mind this past year and on a day I was talking about this same thing with another friend who brought it up to me within their own marriage, I kid you not just two hours after that discussion this piece of scripture came to me in the first thing that I pulled up on the internet to read that day. I have probably read this many times before and it never meant anything until that moment just a few weeks ago the part below in bold is what I received but thought the few versus prior needed to be included as well. Ever since I am at peace in my marriage and know what I must continue to do for not only myself but my wonderful wife and all my family! 1 Corinthians 7: [10] But to them that are married, not I but the Lord commandeth, that the wife depart not from her husband. [11] And if she depart, that she remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. And let not the husband put away his wife. [12] For to the rest I speak, not the Lord. If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she consent to dwell with him, let him not put her away. [13] And if any woman hath a husband that believeth not, and he consent to dwell with her, let her not put away her husband. [14] For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife; and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband: otherwise your children should be unclean; but now they are holy. [15] But if the unbeliever depart, let him depart. For a brother or sister is not under servitude in such cases. But God hath called us in peace.
I'm glad we cleared the air. ...in my world view maybe St. Louis would have been a Doctor of the Church if he'd been able to check his sources ( and that's my last word on this matter!) Pax Christi.
Bart said....in my world view maybe St. Louis would have been a Doctor of the Church if he'd been able to check his sources ( and that's my last word on this matter!) Pax Christ.. Agreed, that is a very 'worldly 'view
I am in a similar situation with my wife and have had similar spiritual confirmations regarding the sanctifying of spouses and children through our prayers and our continued spiritual growth in our own lives. There are many other scriptural quotes and themes in the Bible that speak to this as well. In addition I often invoke the intercession of Blessed Elizabeth Canori Mora, St. Rita, St. Catherine of Genoa, & St. Monica (St. Augustine's mother) who all experienced spouses that were difficult, and not supportive, and sometimes even abusive. I also know that it is often through this extreme difficulty that Our Lord and Blessed Mother keep me on a straight path of constant prayer and that I would not have grown as much spiritually as I have over the last few years if I did not go through this difficulty (at times being emotionally very painful and depressing). Our Blessed Mother in particular has revealed to me that she is intimately working through my situation and that it all for the greater good of my family, my own sanctification, the sanctification of other souls, and also in order to prepare me to be a soldier of mercy and faithfulness for what is soon to come in the world. I find the Rosary, The Divine Mercy Prayer, and often spending intimate time before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament are the things that have greatly strengthened my heart to stay close to our Lord and our Blessed Mother. Also, just as our Blessed Mother said that if the Pope with all the Bishops would simply consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart she would convert Russia and through Russia bring peace to the world, she has shown me that we should do the same with our spouses and children. I have consecrated my wife and kids to her and renew that consecration daily and I have full confidence that she will bring about their deep conversion (she never does anything small). I will pray for you and ask that you do the same for me.
Thank you Carpediem!! Great advice too. Do you have a link to the consecration you use daily? I have long versions but would be interested to see what you do daily so that I can make it my own and do the same as well. I have never thought to do that so thank you very very much. Excellent advice!!
