Charlie Johnston.

No. I'm sorry, but you weren't saying 'keep your principles crystal clear'; nor 'we need voices promoting peace, not war'. You had a gun in your hand a wee while ago, and you weren't afraid to use it!

Weapons, jihads, principles, honour, flags, freedom, blah blah blah....

Springsteen now writes silly songs, hyping the nonsense, "up here we take care of our own..... blah blah"

The extremists make God forsaken videos, beheading the innocent.

These terror groups and many western governments promote war like the pied piper plays a tune. People follow-behind like sheep. Guys, there is evil behind all these wars. Please, do not justify killing ON WHATEVER SIDE IT HAPPENS TO OCCUR.

 

So you are, in fact, peeling spuds in the kitchen.......just like me....you're not ACTUALLY in a tank or fighting ISIS on the front line....or dodging a grenade....or tracking the enemy in the desert?

I'm sorry, but it is a little bewildering when people use the 'we' word when they are actually 3000 miles away.

I know I jest, but I think that is part of the problem. People have these great big opinions about something that's thousands of miles away. Something that isn't happening in their street. I have a feeling that if it were your family, your children, and happening in your street, you may well feel different.

Oh, and where is the 'propaganda' in stating that war - modern war, with its desensitised operational nature and fantastical killing machinery, is wrong. That includes those cowardly bombs that terrorists plant. All of it; is wrong wrong wrong!

With reflection, you my friend are on a side. You are the one promoting the righteousness of one side over another.

Peace and Gods blessing be upon you and this entire trigger-happy misguided world.

 

This is a direct quote from your text, Dolours....

"The aim of getting regime change in Iraq was successful..."

Successful? Ya think? REALLY! SUCCESSFUL, Dolours?
Jeez I can't help wonder what you might term a disaster!?

 

I'll justify the killing of any active ISIS member, subject to all the usual opportunities to drop his weapon and surrender and so on, if these latter are capable of being carried out without endangering the safety of those doing the arrests or of others. Mostly, circumstances allow no such caution or circumspection, so it is necessary to shoot or blow the hell out of these people. The same applies to all terrorists. I do commend your horror of war. It is horrible and there are many terrorists in respectable positions too, who will answer for it all, one fateful Day. However, many people find themselves in situations in which they have no choice but to defend themselves and others and they do so with the blessing of The Church. Pacifism is a heresy and pacifists are often people whose lives and livelihoods are protected by the deaths of others.

 

Saddam was a nasty piece of work. Whether regime change was justified was debatable, as it is unfortunately true that Islamic peoples usually need a tyrant to govern them. It is also arguable that regime change itself was not the problem, but the unwise, but well-intentioned attempt to impose democracy upon peoples wholly incapable of sustaining it. It would have been wiser to impose a less malevolent strong man, but where would one find a suitable candidate? In truth, however, it is the Iraqis themselves who have done, and continue to do, most of the violence and this is ultimately their responsibility. Iraqis, Palestinians and so on cannot get a free pass, with the West and Israel taking all the blame.

 

...I wonder if Jesus will have your machine gun made of gold for your arrival at the pearly gates....no...no, do you know what I think he'll do, I think he'll Make it out of silver to start with....then, after you blow half of heaven to kingdom come, he'll upgrade you to gold! I bet you can't wait.

 

I'm beginning to think you're one of these trolls. You are too quick to accuse and condemn others without any shadow of justification and in a very personal way. You may not realise how much of an insult you have thrown at me in that rather insane sentence, but I ask you to withdraw it, please. And an apology wouldn't be out of place either. If this is some kind of joke, I don't appreciate the taste.

Jack, you're not okay. Self-praise is no praise, my mother, God rest her, often reminded me.

 

It is not my intention to offend you, honestly.
I apologise. Unreservedly.
I just don't understand why so many are so quick to opt for war...?

I come from a country that was locked in a prolonged conflict for many years.
Where both sides killed; and had politicians justifyed the killing.

I never ever would wish to see the like of it again.

War is disgusting ....if only you knew what it was, what it is...what it can do.
It is satanic, barbaric. Awful.

I've a rare day off today, which is why I can reply so readily...

 

Thank you.

I fail to see where anyone here is opting for war. We are discussing actual situations where war is generally thrust upon people and trying to assess how they deal with it in the context of Catholic doctrine. The Northern Ireland conflict is not a good example, because, for most of its duration it could not have been argued as just, in my opinion and there were many rejected opportunities for dialogue before the final, successful one.

What if one is a Christian in Northern Iraq, lucky enough to be armed and to have the support of Kurdish allies in the face of a murderous ISIS assault? Does one kill these enemies or let them kill you and all your loved ones? I would not suggest attempting dialogue. These people don't do dialogue.

War is not necessarily satanic. It depends on the motives. St. Michael and his angels are constantly at war with satan. Surely that's not satanic on St. Michael's part. Was the D-Day invasion satanic? Was Franco's defeat of the Spanish communists, killers of thousands of unarmed priests and nuns, satanic?

War, like Death, is a fact of life.

 

I didn't say it was right. Obama got what he wanted, therefore, his strategy was successful. Disastrous for all the dead, maimed and displaced people in Iraq and Syria but successful in that it achieved his aim. Obama said "Maliki must go" and Maliki is gone - Obama got his wish. Obama said "Assad must go" but Putin said "not so fast" so it will take a little longer to get rid of Asssad. Idriss, the much hyped leader of the "moderate" Free Syrian Army melted away after the ISIS "surprise" seizure of all those NATO supplied weapons. He melted all the way to Qatar where Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood leaders tend to go when they need a break. http://world.time.com/2013/12/12/top-u-s-backed-rebel-commander-flees-syria/
http://dohanews.co/qatar-fm-hamas-leader-remain-doha-dear-guest/

They all co-operate when it suits them, with the likes of Hamas and the Brothers being hosted by whichever Muslim country is best mates with them at a given time - kind of like musical chairs. Palestinian children are way down their list of priorities. Love them or loathe them, at least the Israelis make no bones about their "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach. The rest are a shower of hypocrites.

If you knew someone who would think nothing of launching a rocket from outside your back door (while your children were inside the house) knowing that the only result would be the immediate destruction of your house and family, what would you do? Would you keep on supporting that person knowing that some day he would use photos of your dead children to portray himself as your protector? I suppose they think they are being brave, but it looks more like lunacy to me. I would be looking for someone to negotiate the best deal they could so that my children could have some kind of future that didn't include suicide.

I don't support any wars, but I don't subscribe to the notion that if only everyone will step back and leave Israel to its own devices then rich and powerful Sunni and Shi-ite Muslim states will stop funding and arming terrorist groups and let everyone live in peace. Neither do I believe that the Israelis will relinquish control of the Promised Land without a fight............imagine all the dead Palestinian children should Israel's back be to the wall. The Islamists will cry a river as they use it to stir up mayhem all across the world.

Christians are the truly brave people in the Middle East. Often treated like second class citizens, limited in their freedom of religion, they continue to be Christ's witnesses despite having been betrayed over and over again by supposedly "Christian" superpowers. Do I get any prizes for guessing that you joined in the outraged chorus against Israel when we had wall to wall media coverage of dead Palestinian children as the JV team made its leap into the big time?

 

We got no wall-to-wall coverage of the Christian children deliberately, personally and particularly crucified and cut in half by ISIS demons. The Israelis didn't go out of their way to specifically target children. I would also question if cultures that have not known 'Suffer little children' have the same respect for children as those that do? They have no qualms about exploiting our own regard, however. Obviously, this lesser regard would apply to Jew as well as Muslim, but, as you say, the former are not hypocritical about it.

 

No, you're not sorry. (And yes, I still have that gun )

Funny that those most vociferous for peace in political contexts are often those least willing to pursue it in personal contexts (that is, where it matters most)

My mistake to engage a troll.

God bless you!

In Christ, through Mary,

Daniel

 

Course those things were satanic.
But let's call a spade a spade.....we're not talking about those types of traditional wars here now are we? We're talking dirty wars. Wars where a superpower opens a camp in Guantanamo Bay and imprisons innocent people without trial indefinitely. And it contrary to all international law. Then goes and condemns smaller countries for human rights abuses. Kinda like the plank and the splinter in your eye....

The victims in the Northern Ireland conflict (and their families) don't really care if it has or hasn't a just war tag. They're dead; family members and loved ones are dead. Many more are maimed for life.
....your stance on Northern Ireland is way off the mark, it, like many conflicts these days is the perfect example of how the just war concept is in the main outdated and not applicable to most modern day conflicts.

The unending spiral of atrocities went on and on here....

And the point is, these types of wars are wrong and in many instances military force is not the answer. Force, injustice etc are the greatest recruiters for terrorist organisations. Can't you see that? We had it here for years... Real Justice would solve many conflicts in the world today.

Don't you see also that there are ideologies at play? People make money out of war. Are you blind to that? Ask yourself who makes money from war in the Middle East.

And does the continued violence solve anything: well the proof is actually the Middle East itself. Where violence is in a similar negative spiral to that of NI - except on a much larger scale. I feel so sorry for these people. The rapture or whatever you Americans call it has come to them while we eat and drink and marry and give in marriage. People are displaced from their homes and their hope is squashed. They must flee their homelands with their poor children. Surely in the modern era there must be another way than this 'kill em all' approach.

 

It amazes me how flippant you and your gun are! We can all do flippant tho...

I wonder will you take the gun into heaven? Perhaps you and Jesus can nail a few commys. Up there... Doh! ..it isn't commys that are the enemy no more? It's those damn viet con. Doh! Not them? The Koreans? no....The iraqis?...already went there and nailed them! God there's so many to kill Jesus! Maybe you should nail Jesus with gun, after all he went and created all men as equal. Yeah, you and your gun should get him.

You know what you might actually be better signing off with...

In Christ, through Mary with my big fat gun ...that'll mow you and your kids down if you get in my way you dirty Middle Eastie!

Lol some craic you righteous child of God. Let me ask you this, did everyone of those damn Johnny Foreigner country's you invaded deserve it?!
Where you always right and everyone else wrong????

 

It's late. Way too late for this back and forth nonsense with you guys. You believe what you believe, and that's it. There's no in-between.

It seems by your logic, that if you don't support Israels barbarity then you must support someone else's barbarity. This is not so.

Why do we have to categorise victims? As if there are people that deserve to die more than others. As if there are children and families more innocent than other children and families. All life is presious.

Please stop the killing. And if you can't because you have no power to.....then please stop justifying killing with fancy words and eloquent language.
Jesus doesn't like killing.
He not be happy with those that support and justify it.
He even went and made a commandment about it.
He probably knows best, I'd say.

 

There's no point in trying, this guy is a proud American. He'll think he's right no matter what you say...and he'll say he's helping you while he's hurting you.

 

Flippant? No. I just live in a dangerous neighborhood and have a wife and kids whom I am called and required by God to protect against an unjust aggressor, even if this protection entails the use of a lethal blow.

 

This thread is way off topic now. I thought this was about welcoming Charlie Johnson.

 

I don't support anyone's barbarity. You're the one claiming the high moral ground here, so what's your solution? You can't turn back the clock, so how would you sort out the mess that is the Middle East? Remember that Israelis won't just roll over, so does your solution mean waging war against the Israeli Defence Forces? Nope, that can't be it because that would mean using arms. So, what would you do? Maybe you would disable Israel's Iron Dome and let those Palestinian rockets hit their targets? But that would result in dead Jewish children. Would you lose your objection to physical force if the target were Israel and Jewish children?

 

I'm hoping in the Days Ahead we have Plenty of Proud Christian Americans ... like Charlie Johnston .. & Christian Patriots Worldwide willing to Take a Stand .... to hope/think otherwise is ....... a very unpleasant vision indeed!!
View attachment 5424

GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!