Michael Voris' co-host Christine Niles revealed that Michael Voris just stopped praying when going to the office a few years before he got exposed. He used to be the prayer leader but he delegated it to someone else...
Joan's Church trial was long and arduous (months long). While in prison, under the guidance of Sts. Catherine and Margaret, she had refused the Church's demand to switch from male attire (which she had worn while leading France forces against the English). The Church court then ruled that due to her disobedience they would surrender her to English authorities who would put her to death by being burned at the stake. Joan wavered and switched clothes. However, she switched back after the two saints appeared to her and reprimanded her for caving in. Due to her perceived obstinacy she was given over to the English and burned at the stake (a horrible death to say the least)!.
St. Joan wore the male clothing to protect her virginity, right? Because she was constantly among males and faced threats of rape. I wonder if this was a case of her believing obedience here would be sinful. And the Church doesn't have jurisdiction to tell someone they can't wear modest clothes that will protect them from rape, just like Pope Francis doesn't have jurisdiction to tell us we have to receive a Covid vaccine. A bishop does have jurisdiction to tell a priest in his diocese not to present messages to the public as coming from God.
There's also the account that the guards stole her female clothing. Should she have walked around naked?
As far as Medjugorje, the visionaries themselves have been obedient. The troubles between the Franciscans and the Diocese started way before the apparitions began, due to a shifting around of authority over the various parishes. It is true that a priest who became a spiritual director to the visionaries ended up asking to be laicized after a scandal with a nun. That is very unfortunate but not the visionaries' fault. The long-standing ruling of the bishops' conference that has the authority over Medjugorje is a neutral judgment--neither declaring it supernatural or unsupernatural. It is permitted for parishes to have official pilgrimages to Medjugorje. There is no disobedience going on.
Agree, the official position is the Church has not said thus is or is not of supernatural origin. But as noted below, the Church permits pilgrimages. https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-churchs-current-position-on-medjugorje
I agree. Below is the most thorough explanation I've seen. And though this document explains Joan's obedience to God as her primary justification, I believe much of such instructions came through Sts. Margaret and Catherine. https://www.mytutor.co.uk/answers/27615/A-Level/History/Why-did-Joan-of-Arc-wear-male-clothing/
Hi Purple flower. I have prayed about your above post. In regards to the missionaries of divine mercy, I have nil interest in any of their prophesies and in fact do not follow nor know what they have said, only that the pope is a usurper; I know, only because some members have posted this statement in this thread. I believe these MDM people should be obedient to their bishop (no matter what their bishop has been accused of) and no matter how urgent they believe their private revelations are. However, in the discussion here on the MoG site I could see it become heated between good Catholics of the MoG forum members. My heart went out to all of them especially to Christy and to Brian who are both good Catholics and I know they would agree with each other, but were speaking of two different things, in my opinion, and their wires got crossed. As Catholics we are all trying to navigate through the present treacherous waters of schism and heresy as best we can, and I believe we must be forgiving of one another. especially if we feel that person has been deceived, because we know that the pure light of Christ will burst through any and all deceptions via our prayers and sacrifice. I posted the interview with Mr Flynn to deescalate the thread, because there it was in stark terms what the freemasons intend to do! Yes, it was a high-ranking freemason who said they will destroy the church by obedience. Freemasonry is demonic. The evil one has an intellect greater than any man, and if he believes he has devised a way to deceive Catholics, who are being obedient to Christ's Church, is it not important for us to be aware of this intended deception? I have technically disobeyed the authority of the church with my refusal to get the covid jab and additionally I have no intention of personally accepting the latest declaration on Catholic doctrine, Fiducia Supplicans. No matter what spin may be put on this declaration, if I arrive to attend mass one day and find a homosexual couple being blessed before the mass, I will be walking away and will not be attending that mass. Even if it is the bishop himself preforming the blessing. This may seem like disobedience but I believe it is obedience to God and His truth. Please see the interview of Kyle Clement, Father Rippengers assistant, in an article on life site, he states that the priest who blesses same sex unions is bringing a curse upon himself and the door to the demons is swung open. As for the Fiducia Supplicans being a declaration on Catholic doctrine, I believe more demonic declarations may be instore. I think freemasonry will try to make it very hard for us to discern where our obedience lies. As a by the way, when the church and mass lockdowns occurred, I remember praying for a priest of Fr Mawdsley calibre who would stand his ground and offer Mass no matter what his bishop decreed. In my neck of the woods, when Mass resumed with the social distancing and masks, we were told that no one was to receive Our Lord on the tongue, this was a decree by our bishop and it remained in our bulletin for many months. I have only ever received Jesus kneeling and on the tongue for over 40 years, so I discussed this with my priest in confession, he was understanding of my plight but stated we must obey the bishop, he told me to pray about it. I prayed and began to receive Jesus on my hand for the months that the tongue was banned. I never picked the host up from my hand, instead I placed my mouth over the host, like the little Chinese girl who daily snuck into her church, adored Our Lord on her knees and received one desecrated host a day which had been thrown on the floor by the communist soldiers, placing her tongue on the host to lift it from the floor. I followed her example, additionally our bishop’s decree did not state that all must stand so even though I received in the hand I always knelt to receive Jesus. I am hopeful that I managed to remain obedient to both Our Lord and His representative, during this time. May Our Lord have Mercy on all of us. Amen
These are very hard and confusing times. I had to navigate the receiving of Jesus in the hand thing during Covid also and can completely relate to your feelings on it. I did the same as you. If I come down firm sometimes against the idea of obedience being challenged, it's because I truly believe God will be much softer toward those who chose obedience, even if they accidentally discerned wrong in very particular circumstances, than those who chose disobedience in something they disapprove of but is lawful. I'm afraid of these many discussions condemning our Church leaders and entertaining ideas of disobedience (except in what is clearly sin) being harmful and scandalous to gentle, simple souls not given to criticism. I don't want one person led astray from the Church because we spoke badly about our prelates or insinuated that we lay people know better at this point. I think when it comes down to it, if we're not absolutely sure whether to obey or not, we should obey. If we know something is sinful, then we don't do it. It really is simpler than I think we all feel sometimes. We feel betrayed, sad, scandalized, etc. and that is coloring our discernment and discussions. We're weary and let down. But I don't think any of us feel as badly about all this as Jesus does. The betrayal of priests wounds Him terribly and even so, He doesn't want them criticized and angrily ignored. He wants us to sacrifice and pray for them with great love, because He loves them with a very special and preferential love. I think we'd achieve far more for the Church and help it out of this crisis far faster if that was our response we directed all of our energy toward.
I also just want to add that Jesus has made it so clear in countless apparitions throughout time that He wants His prelates reverenced, and He values obedience so highly that superiors must be obeyed even when it comes in conflict with what He's telling his visionary directly. And He's told us this over and over, all while knowing, since He's God and sees all of time, that a time would come when freemasons would infiltrate His Church and try to lead everyone astray. If the devil so arrogantly thinks he can bring down the Church through obedience, he really ought to be laughed at. God says obedience safeguards our souls. So of course the devil wants us to think it's obedience that's the problem. God is God. The freemasons are nothing compared to Him. We must act like we believe that! Have confidence in God, and let's just do our part--which is what Mary always asks us to do. She doesn't come down from Heaven to tell us to challenge and criticize our superiors; she tells us to pray, sacrifice, make reparation, repent, repent, repent! It is our own sins that led the communists to enter our Church and bring confusion down upon our heads. When will we all stop arguing and showing how much better we know than our priests, bishops, and pope, and just throw ourselves on our faces and beg God for mercy? Just grab onto Him and tell Him you won't let go until He forgives us and saves us!
I'm breaking my silence, just this once to toss this out there: In the end, can we say that St. Joan was quite obedient to the Church Authority because she accepted the punishment that was meted out to her, ie burnt at the stake? (Lift high the Cross that I may see it!!) Did she not obey God in one sense as well as the authority in the other? The MDM folks, imho, completely failed in this regard due their total disobedience to the archbishop. Whatever sacrifice they attempted to make was lost in their defiance, imho.
Bottom line. You cannot do a bad thing to achieve a good result. Disobedience is the bad thing. The Bishop is acting in his charism as Bishop. Dissecting his character in this matter is not helpful. What good can come from releasing "tainted" messages? IMO no good can come of it.
For any one who has eyes to see and ears to hear, Bergoglio is the usurper discussed by St. Francis of Assisi in the quote below: Act bravely, my Brethren; take courage, and trust in the Lord. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect. Those who preserve their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. But the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head [Jesus Christ], these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish [physically] rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer. St Francis of Assisi Prophecies cited in the above excerpt come from the “Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi“, Imprimatur, [London: R. Washbourne, 1882], pp. 248-250.
The source was provided in my original post: St Francis of Assisi Prophecies cited in the above excerpt come from the “Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi“, Imprimatur, [London: R. Washbourne, 1882], pp. 248-250. You can click the link to see the facsimile of the book published in 1882 with imprimatur (see page 6 of the facsimile).
And if one understands what the "imprimatur" means, then the following statement from that book, ...a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate,... was considered by that Bishop, William Bernard (https://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bulla.html), to contain no statements that were against the Catholic Faith. Bishop Bernard did not think it problematic to believe that such a thing could happen. In fact, Bishop William Bernard was the principal consecrator of Henry Cardinal Manning. And Bernard was a Benedictine priest before becoming a Bishop.
Whatever anyone may personally believe to be true, until the Authority of the Church speaks to this matter, for all intents and purposes Francis is the Pope. Imho, God's Justice as well as His Mercy will take care of everything else in the end. "May the Holy Will of God be done". Trust in Him. St. Joan is an example of "next level martyrdom"; if, for example, it is declared we have to take whatever vaccines come out next, or else and the Church says we must do so, what will any of us do? Something to truly think about because as was said above, things like this are likely coming down the pike. Be not afraid, but be prepared spiritually ~ trust in HIM.
Honest question: What is the difference between the Archbishop of San Antonio and the Bishop of Rome, when it comes to obedience?
