“I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”

there are a few here on the forum with an unhealthy obsession with bashing the pope. It seems to come from a fear of falling for the anti-pope or anti-christ. Well, if an anti-pope or anti-christ arises, you will not be able to identify them by what you read in Time or the AP (half truths and agenda driven), but you will be able to with deep prayer and a deep relationship with our lady and Jesus. We are each personally responsible for developing this relationship with our lady and Jesus so we will not be duped. I suggest investing the time you spend on the internet researching what the pope said or might have said and instead use that time in prayer. It might give you some peace.

 

I think Brian deserves a specific response on this matter of the wooden crucifix Pope Francis was given in Ecuador. When the matter first made the news (first mentioned on the forum by Brian I believe), I was a bit surprised about all the fuss but I later posted to the forum the report from Vatican Insider which quoted a document issued by Fr Lombardi, the Pope's spokesman, which appeared to state that the items given to Pope Francis were being left in Ecuador at the Shrine in Copacabana.

I say 'appeared to state', but in fact the document only refers to the two decorative honours (on chains) given to Francis. I certainly assumed the statement included the wooden crucifix as well but the Pope has certainly indicated in his conference with the journalists on the flight home from South America that he has chosen to keep the crucifix. I think the crucifix is important for Francis due to it being a copy of a design by Fr Luis Espinal, S.J, whom the Pope clearly views as being a martyr for the faith. This is what Pope Francis said about the crucifix to the journalists:

Espinal was an enthusiast of this Marxist analysis and he produced this work. His poetry also belongs to that genre. It was his life, his way of thinking. He was a special man abounding in human genius, a man of good faith. Let us interpret it this way: I understand this piece and I did not find it offensive. I carry it with me.

 

Sigh. More ad hominem. Par for the course here.

 

Hi Brian
Please do not take the following as merely well intentioned or patronising commentary. More and more I understand where you are coming from but still I totally disagree with your points of view. Out of love and conviction I am driven to defend the Pope simply because I see him as an innocent man wrongly accused and as a leader who is in charge and who takes good care of those in his charge. I see him as a wise and charitable example of Christian virtue, a man of integrity and someone I can trust. I see him as a man of prayer, a good man guided by the Holy Spirit who puts his money where his mouth is and whose words and actions are erroneously presented and prosecuted. On every count you feel obliged to see him in a way that rejects all of the above. What you see as evidence I see as an excuse to attack. I do not see how you can justify your position in the light of your claim to be a loyal Catholic who loves the Church. While I believe you think you are right and that you really are taking this position for the good of the Faith, I am just as convinced that you are wrong. I see no problem with this so called latest Bolivian controversy. I see no error and no contrdictions by the pope. I see no need for retractions and apologies. We can't both be right. We can't both be seeing straight. For you Pope Francis is a great cross to bear. For me he is a great crusader to be believed, a true Defender of the Faith. Unlike Henry VIII who was also known by this title he will never turn on the Faith or the Faithful. Like, you I am not interested in pleasing others with my opinion. Like you I do not look for their approval. Like you I only want to do the right thing. As far as Pope Francis is concerned I see no possibility of agreement in our points of view. Your criticisms of Pope Francis are unwarranted and, for the most part on this forum are unwanted. In my opinion they are not appropriate to a site that upholds the Catholic Faith. I see your latest appeal to Padraig as an untypical weakness as a child who having been told 'no' by one parent appeals the decision to the other. I understand where you are coming from but in this understanding I also see your contensions as potentially destructive and divisive. They do nothing to build up our Faith and can never be foundation for sound criticism simply because they rest on hearsay and an agenda that is incompatible with growth in the true ways of Catholic Justice Mercy and Love such as those expressed in the teachings of our Holy Father. He has been trying to change the pscyche of Catholicism while preserving its core values and its heart of gold. With you, it seems, so far, his efforts have fallen far short of the mark. You cannot be moved and the target cannot be moved so the only hope is for transformation of heart and mind and the only hope for that is prayer. Lets pray for each other. Prayer can still be a sign og unity. Your intellect may surpass mine but that is not the most important aspect of Faith. In the end we shall be judged on love.

 

No, no, no give the poor Pope a rest Brian.

 

I think the Reading from today's morning prayer is appropriate here:

"Always speak and act as men destined for judgment under the law of freedom. Merciless is the judgment of the man who has not shown mercy; but mercy triumphs over judgment." James 2:12-13

Another passage that comes to mind is the call of Matthew (Matthew 9:9-13):

"As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the customs post. He said to him, 'Follow me.' And he got up and followed him. While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, 'Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?' He heard this and said, 'Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. Go and learn the meaning of the words, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.'”

 

From God Speaks Will You Listen http://www.scribd.com/doc/22505473/God-Speaks-Will-You-Listen

4/07 "The truth has been given to you in my word and in my church. Many of you act and think you know better than my pope, your Holy Father. When you act this way, you are telling me, Jesus Christ, you know more than me.Confusion and deception are rampant in my church. This is not of me but of my and your enemy Satan. My laws and commandments do not change. I am the same yesterday, today, and forever. Those who disagree with the Holy Father on how the church should be run, whether on the extreme traditional side or the liberal side, need to repent and do penance, for you are causing division and schism in my house. You must be in union with theHoly Father, bishops and priests who follow me. If you are not, you are not in union with me. Those bishops and priests, who teach another doctrine, do not follow them, for I will judge my house, not you".

 

Its been almost a month rest so ...

"women should be ordained and clergy should be able to marry."

Attributed to LA auxiliary bishop-elect Msgr David O’Connell.

Is this the kind of bishop Rome thinks the Church needs?

 

How much do you think that this is the Popes fault, Brian? He is Pope, not God

 

I think this is why poor Benedict went, he just had enough

 

you can fight one or two but when there are hundreds
this thing is endemic

 

Brian,

2003 article and its not even quoted...from the most liberal garbage paper in the U.S..

Lets me tell you the good news...the ArchBishop is bishop Gonzales...Opus Dei. They sent Opus Dei to clean up the mess.

Stop this non-sense.

Brother al

Sorry for duplicate reply

 

If it occurred in a vacuum you might get away with calling it non-sense. It didn't. It's of a piece with the placement of men like Cupich in Chicago. When there are definite patterns (and they are demonstrable) you can't deflect using these tactics and maintain credibility.

 

Two things jump out at me based upon link. First, the article is dated June of 2002- 13 years ago. And second, I see it is page 3 of 4 and would be good to read it in full context of the article. And one more thought, I'm assuming this priest is now a bishop elect? He can certainly have his "opinion" on what he thinks would be helpful, but that is very different from his magisterial teaching. That's all from me- really not looking to resurrecting this whole thread that Pope Francis is fill in the blank based upon where you come from or your perception. I'm going to wait , pray, take care of my immediate life here and see what cones in October.

 

That appointment occurred under BXVI.

Barron was removed from Mundelein so Cupich could put his stamp on the Chicago seminary. Barron was placed out of the way where his relatively conservative views could be counterbalanced by this auxiliary bishop more in the mind of the progressives calling the shots in the USA now, like Wuerl and Cupich.

And yes I do believe the current pope is closely following and vetting these appointments.

 

Fr. Dwight Longenecker posted on Facebook today about this auxiliary bishop elect being known as pro women's ordination. Fr. Longenecker is fairly well known and regarded so I thought the story was credible.

 

The shape the world is in is not any one individual's fault. Not the Pope's either. The world rejects God and God withholds grace. Not even the Pope can change this. Everything will be renewed in God's own timing. Even JP2 knew this....he awaited the Sign of the Woman because he knew that Triumph would follow out of chaos. God will deal with all the problems of the world and His Church.

 

yesterday i read an interesting point on this concept of God with-holding grace.
It was by Fr. Pat Collins in his book Guided by God. He quoted JPII
"It is truly difficult to speak of the silence of God. We must speak, rather, of the desire to stifle the voice of God."
He goes on to say: if there is unrepented sin in people's lives, such as lack of love or forgiveness, it prevents them hearing God's voice.

I would say we are one exceptional generation of the unrepentant and the deaf.