Coming of Antichrist just around the corner?

Well, he won't be short of contenders if he really believes the AC is alive now. If he stands in Leinster house and throws a stone over his shoulder he's bound to hit one.

 

He must have a very,very flexible Bishop indeed to let him go globe trotting like this. Especially these days.

 

Nobody knows for certain. I think that traditionally many believed that he was most likely a Seraph. Here's a very interesting article about it. The author leans towards Seraph but he includes a video from a Protestant scholar who believes that Satan was a Cherub: https://thesacredfaith.co.uk/home/p...t-are-the-seraphim-and-was-the-devil-one.html

 

I believe he was one or the other. I had heard he was a seraphim...I think it is speculation really.

I am puzzled. This must mean he is back out there again. Remember when he was suddenly gone--removed to " rest and pray"? Is that over now? When is the DM conference?

 

Yes, the whole thing is questionable. For months people were left wondering, now he’s off to Ireland???

 

Josephite said,
Hi PNF
In the above you are quoting Scripture passages regarding the second coming of Christ.


Thank you, Josephite.



There is danger in trying to fit the Scriptures/articles to fit what we think personally. It can be likened to what certain prosecutors do when they want to pin a crime on a certain suspect.
There is danger in cherry-picking.

 

Are you sure he is on there for 2024?

 

Looks like it - https://www.divinemercyconference.com/

 

Thank you!

 

HeavenlyHosts,

I didn't quote any Scripture passages in that post. I provided a quote from the Summa Theologiae. Here is the link again for those who did not see the hyperlink in my original post:

https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~1Thess.C4.L2.n102.3

St. Thomas Aquinas was the one who you say was "quoting Scripture passages regarding the Second Coming of Christ." Yes. And St. Thomas is the pre-eminent Doctor of the Church, and he is summarizing, in the quoted section, the teaching of the Church Fathers on that Scriptural passage about the Second Coming (which is the subject matter of the Akita prophecy).

Maybe you can explain your position a little better? Where exactly did I do something to deserve being compared with a "prosecutor" who tries to "pin a crime" on someone. Why do you make such nasty, hit-and-run comments?

 

It was a general comment. I didn’t think it was nasty at all. I have said it before. I just don’t think we are close to the Second Coming. You have posted Scripture passages to bolster your views.
Not everyone shares your views.
I was making an analogy.
I have actually said before that I choose not to engage with you, and I truly did not mean anything personal. I’m sorry. So let me exit stage left. And not continue to engage.

 

Do you know the Scripture passage from Wisdom chapter 1? In general, we can all benefit from its teaching.

 

PNF in your reply to Sam you state there is an apparent, rapture theory according to St. Thomas Aquinas. This is of course false.

I am assuming you know you've quoted from St Thomas' commentary on I Thessalonians, which is divided into 5 Chapters and 8 lectures. With over 139 stanzas.
St Thomas is explaining the moment of Christs second coming and what would happen to the elect, both the living and the dead.

I am wondering why you quoted stanza 103 which is written in Chapter 4 under the title "The Resurrection of the dead" without giving context to St. Thomas discourse, as being in regards to the general resurrection? I can not understand your reason for randomly quoting stanza 103 out of context, unless you personally believe the protestant idea of the rapture.

St Thomas clearly explains in his above 102 stanzas, St Paul's, reason for writing two letters to the Thessalonians, as needed due to their current trials and additionally to exhort the Thessalonians, not to grieve for those of the community that had passed but to remain active and not succumb to idleness due to their mistaken belief that the second coming was imminent

In Stanza 96 St Thomas states...for those who shall be found alive will not achieve the glory of resurrection before those who are dead. Then quotes St Paul, we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent those who have slept.

He continues in Stanza 96..... It would seem to those who do not fully understand what the Apostle is saying here that all this shall come about while the Apostle is still alive; it seemed this way to the Thessalonians. Because of this misunderstanding he wrote them a second letter in which he says: now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ . . . we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come (2 Thess 2:2).

We who remain, that is, those who shall be left after the persecution of the Antichrist, who are living shall not receive consolation first.

Additionally, St Thomas states that when our Lord comes and the trumpet sounds it will be instantaneous; quoting a number of times throughout his commentary (1 Cor 15:52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

In Stanza 105. St. Thomas says....Then when he (St Paul) says, therefore comfort one another with these words, Paul concludes that they should comfort one another about the dead. He feels that since the saints will rise without suffering any loss, the Thessalonians should comfort one another about the dead. Comfort, comfort my people, says your God (Isa 40:1).

Stanza 105 is followed by Chapter 5, Children of Light. The second coming. Probably well worth reading

I Believe Our Lords Words (below from the Gospel of St Matthew) on the general resurrection and His Second coming are best explanations for clarity; especially if one is confused and wondering whether God may call the saints of the end times, to suffer the cross with heroic virtue or whether He will possibly call them to be raptured above and out of the suffering.

Matthew 25:31-46
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

Hi Josephite. Just so we can keep the facts straight, here is the sequence of events related to the posts on this subject:

1. I posted the following: Friday at 9:14 AM.

2. The user named Sam, said of my post above: "this sounds like the protestant rapture theory." I said nothing in my post about any "rapture theory." But I'm pretty sure the part of my post that Sam was referring to was this part where I wrote:

"Those following the novel Satanic teachings are the many who are "left behind," left on this mortal earth by their own free choice, while the few "elect" are "taken" by Jesus (Matthew 24:40-41) to a supernatural paradise. For those "left behind," the world continues for some time, but it becomes a kind of hell because the only inhabitants of that earth are demons in human form, those bereft of God's grace because they refused God's mercy after the Warning."​

3. I then replied showing her St. Thomas Aquinas, quoting St. Paul, discusses the events that I had described in the first post (Friday at 9:14 AM). Aquinas stated:

But there is a difference between the good and the evil people, because the evil people will remain on the earth that they loved, while the good people will be taken up to the Christ whom they had sought. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together (Matt 24:28). In the time of the resurrection the saints will be conformed to Christ, not only with regard to the glory of the body (Phil 3), but also with respect to place, for Christ will be in a cloud. A cloud took him out of their sight (Acts 1:9), and Jesus will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven (Acts 1:11). And so the saints too will be taken up into the clouds.

The reason for this is to show their likeness to God. For in the Old Testament the glory of the Lord appeared in the form of a cloud. The Lord said that he would dwell in a cloud (1 Kgs 8:12). These clouds will be prepared by divine power in order to show the glory of the saints. Or, the resplendent bodies of the glorified will appear as clouds to the evil people who will remain on earth. Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him (Matt 25:6).
​

Now, before we go on, please look at my original quote above and compare it to the quote from St. Thomas Aquinas. The word "taken" in my post and the phrase "taken up" in Aquinas is "raptum" or "rapientur" which come from the Latin verb rapio. The Latin can be found the the Aquinas site here. There is no doubt about the use of the word in the Vulgate either, which you can see here.

So my comments were not informed by some "Protestant rapture theory." Instead, they are derived from St. Thomas Aquinas's commentary on St. Paul. It is possible that I have over-interpreted it. But the fundamentals of what I said are in St. Paul and St. Thomas Aquinas. They are not Protestants.

4. You then said that "In the above you are quoting scripture passages regarding the second coming of Christ," but the majority of your post was a quote from Akita.

I never said anything about the Second Coming, and I agree that those scripture passages refer to the Second Coming or events proximate to it. Thinking that you wanted to address the different treatment of good vs. the bad mentioned in the Akita quote , I responded with that in mind.

5. I answered your comment with this post (Friday at 5:54 PM).

6. Now you are back to step number 2, Sam's claim that "this sounds like the protestant rapture theory." And you claim that what I said about St. Thomas Aquinas is false.

7. So, in response to your false claim, I will provide the same quote of St. Thomas (in the Latin):

103. Sed videtur hoc difficile, quia de vivis multi erunt probati in persecutione antichristi, qui dignitate praecellent multos prius defunctos.

Et ideo videtur aliter esse dicendum, quod omnes morientur et omnes resurgent, et quod simul. Nec Apostolus dicit hic quod illi prius resurgent, quam isti, sed quod illi prius resurgent, quam isti occurrant. Apostolus enim non ponit ordinem resurrectionis ad resurrectionem, sed ordinem ad raptum, vel ad occurrentiam. Nam primo veniente Domino morientur qui invenientur vivi, et tunc statim cum illis, qui prius mortui fuerant resurgentes rapientur in nubibus, etc., ut Apostolus hic dicit.

Est autem haec inter bonos et malos differentia, quia mali remanebunt in terra, quam dilexerunt, boni rapientur ad Christum, quem quaesierunt. Matth. XXIV, 28: ubi fuerit corpus, ibi congregabuntur et aquilae. In resurrectione etiam sancti conformabuntur Christo, non solum quantum ad gloriam corporis, Phil. III, sed etiam quantum ad situm, quia Christus erit in nube. Act. I, 9: et nubes suscepit eum; et: quemadmodum vidistis eum, et cetera. Sic et sancti a nubibus rapientur.

Et quare hoc? Ad ostendendum eorum deiformitatem. In Veteri enim Testamento gloria Domini apparuit per modum nubis. III Reg. VIII, 10: Dominus venit in nebula. Hae nubes erunt praeparatae virtute divina ad ostensionem gloriae sanctorum. Vel ipsa fulgentia corpora gloriosorum videbuntur malis quaedam nubes, qui erunt in terra. Matth. c. XXV, 6: ecce sponsus venit, exite obviam ei.
​

So, full circle again. The concept of "the rapture" did not originate with the Protestants. The word "rapture" is the English adaptation of the Latin words used to describe the type of events discussed in Scripture and the Doctors of the Church. The same passage from 1 Thessalonians 4 is described thus by St. John Chrysostom here:

When these things then are done, then also will be the voice of the Archangel shouting and commanding the Angels, and the trumpets, or rather the sound of the trumpet. What trembling then, what fear will possess those that remain upon the earth. For one woman is caught up and another is left behind, and one man is taken, and another is passed over. Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:34-35 What will be the state of their souls, when they see some indeed taken up, but themselves left behind? Will not these things be able to shake their souls more terribly than any hell? Let us represent then in word that this is now present. For if sudden death, or earthquakes in cities, and threatenings thus terrify our souls; when we see the earth breaking up, and crowded with all these, when we hear the trumpets, and the voice of the Archangel louder than any trumpet, when we perceive the heaven shriveled up, and God the King of all himself coming near — what then will be our souls? Let us shudder, I beseech you, and be frightened as if these things were now taking place. Let us not comfort ourselves by the delay. For when it must certainly happen, the delay profits us nothing.​

Maybe there is room for disagreement about exactly what this event of being "taken up" will be like. Maybe we can disagree about the precise timing of the event itself for those already dead vs those still living when it happens. But we cannot, as Catholics, believe that being "taken up" [raptured] as it is described by St. Paul and the Doctors commenting on Scripture is not an orthodox teaching of what will happen in the End Times.

If you want to define/explain what you mean by "the Protestant rapture theory" in a way that shows clearly how it differs from the Catholic use of the concept being "taken away" when others are "left behind," I would welcome the opportunity to discuss that further. I do think there are some important differences.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain

 

I remember posting opposition to Donald Trump before the 2020 election. I felt like the pariah of the forum because no one shared my views. All this to say that I admire that you post your theses, PNF, even if you receive opposition to them and no 'likes'. By the way, I am so bummed out at the choices we have in America for President in 2024. Jesus, have mercy and please save us!

 

I too am amazed by how many Catholics have been completely blinded by Trump, as if he is in any way a Godly man. I understand completely the dislike for Biden and the other lefties. But to think trump is a positive antidote is just pure blindness. Evil plays both sides. There are no good choices once again this yr.

 

I'm Irish and outsider looking in. History will judge Trump as having had one of the best foreign policies in American history. On this issue he was outstanding. He should have won a Nobel peace prize. But as you know such things are rigged.

 

looks like he’s not attending after all.

 

Hmmm. I hope he is not seriously ill. Aves going up.