Confusing

I think your 3 friends are an anomaly based upon various reports I have seen including this one

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/francis-effect-bringing-people-back-church-study

 

From Walid Shoebat's blog

The Pope has said recently in Evangelii Gaudium (paragraphs 252-253) that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.” Christians are being slaughtered and kidnapped in Islamic countries every day.

Why? Because the Koran orders them to do so:

The Koran is full of bellicose and hate-mongering verses against non-Muslims. ANYONE is be able to find them if he reads the Koran, but I will name just a few:

2:191-193: “And slay them wherever you come upon them, [...] Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s.”
4:89: “If they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”
5:33: “This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, [...]: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land.”
8:60: “Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”
9:5: “When the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.”
9:29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah.”
9:30: “The Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them.”
9:123: “O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”
47:4: “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”

The former Muslim who was baptised by Pope Benedict and who was threatened with death for his trouble, has now left the Church because of these sort of comments and his conclusion that a Church that makes them cannot be the guardian of the truth.

A refusal to face reality and teach the truth lets the Muslims know that we are either fools or liars.

 

Yes there are many problems with the Koran and militant Islam. But there are many devout peaceful Muslims who adore God and love their neighbour with full hearts.

 

Didn't Christians act in terrible ways during the Crusades and the Inquisition? There are certainly members of almost every faith group that do awful things but that does not mean the entire religion is to be condemned.

 

Miker, I just got on and saw this. I have been shown a few things lately...first, that if we are uncomfortable with the Holy Father opening the door to the Church to others, we better hold on...cause he is going to open the windows too! These are the words of Jesus to Vassula Ryden whose documents from the Vatican I just got (along with letters from Orthodox patriarchs and priests etc.) (including a letter from Cardinal Ratzinger saying he had read her messages and encouraging all bishops to welcome her into their diocese)

This was so wonderful to read because I started with Vol. I to XVI and I was blown away with the love of Jesus and Mary and the core of the message being UNITY OF THE CHURCHES (Protestantism/Catholic/Orthodox) to come under the Pope and the Catholic Church, and Fatima and especially Garabandal! I read about how our Lady TOLD Fr. Gobbi that Vassula was of God and that Jesus was truly speaking to her. Fr. Gobbi then wrote a public letter stating that he had gotten confirmation (after he had originally spoken against her and several of his priests had also) that she was real.

I have been given a great gift of seeing this truth--NOT through Vassula, but through other things Jesus and Mary have shown me. These messages just confirmed it all for me! I am soooo happy!

However, what I see now is that there is going to be TONS of people asking questions, questioning Pope Francis as he is continuing to 'break down the facade of the false church' or the 'pomp and circumstance' of the Church.

We as devout Catholics are soooo on the defense that we can hardly show our love for those who oppose us----we can hardly TAKE A BREATH--because of the slime that is being thrown at us...and the loss of innocence, the loss of public outcry regarding sin, the public ridicule of our shepherds, the lack of leadership and the lack of catechism is killing us!

It is so beautifully explained, so beautifully laid out and so perfectly ATTAINABLE with grace from God. In the last week, I have read 29 volumes of Jesus' writings. I am a better person for having read this. I came home and was able to see and love my family through different eyes. I saw Jesus' love for me through different eyes! HIS EYES!

I now see the Church through different eyes also. AND I SEE THAT THIS IS THE POPE WHO IS GOING TO DO IT ALL! WE ARE SOOOOO CLOSE ---do not abandon the Church because of questions or suspicions. I know you wouldn't Miker--I'm speaking to those who feel that the Church is going down the wrong path....

We MUST let people ask their questions and we MUST allow people to vent--and answer their questions with LOVE. Our Lord wants UNITY. NOT division! His body is being torn apart and the evil one is having a hey-day doing it. ALL THREE-Protestants--Catholics--and the Orthodox will have to BEND for this unity. We cannot compromise truth or LOVE...but we cannot be Pharisee either! Spouting only rules without love!!!!!!

 

If I was Pope I wold model myself on what Our Lady has been doing and saying at Apparition sites. Asking for an iner spiritual revolution, Prayer and fasting. The use of the sacraments, the eucharist and confession. Such simple things but the only solution.

JP2 said what the Church needs most is saints. THis has always been true today more than ever. If we have saints Evangleisation wil ltake care of itself. Nothing draws souls like the holy.

 

It is true there have been many hateful things said about Pope Francis,..but personally I have not seen it on this forum in the sense of hateful speech, sometimes it seems as though if someone makes a comment because the Pope has said something they are concerned about, it is taken as hateful or critical. I think it's called making an observation. We all love and care about the Pope and our faith, that's why we are all here. I know I pray for the Pope every day, I'm pretty sure everyone on the forum does. We are told to be watchful and alert and that can't be done if we stick our head in the sand.

 

MS7 said... UNITY OF THE CHURCHES (Protestantism/Catholic/Orthodox)

Err,correct me if Im wrong ,but I thought most of us on this forum were actually on the 'Look Out' over the last few years/decades for any moves and talk like this? Unity of Churches? seriously? The Catholic Church established by Christ welcomes all people to join. But 'bending' the Church is the same as bending the truth.

 

Mac, I was thinking about that. There is no doubt that Jesus wants us to be one. If this is His plan for this time, it's only logical that the enemy will ape that plan, which is what he always does (he's quite predictable). So, as the Holy Spirit moves to unite us all, the enemy will work to form a one world religion that is devoid of every mark of the true faith. So what we have to watch for is a devaluing, then a loss, of sacraments, priesthood, devotion to the Blessed Mother, etc.

When Vassula talks about the three faiths "bending", I understand she's talking about humility. I just listened to this sermon, which talked about the schism of the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Holy Father's (Pope Leo?) remarks about the need to acknowledge that individuals on both sides committed errors.
http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131114-Saint-Josaphat-and-the-Conversion-of-Russia.html

 

You're right - this site, thank God, doesn't lend itself to hatefulness. There is nothing wrong with voicing concern. What concerns me is when someone assumes the worst about the Holy Father, and starts dreaming up future scenarios and projecting ill intent upon him.

We have a saying in Texas: If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, every day would be just like Christmas.

 

Hey, thanks for not judging!

 

I am willing to bend on anything to unite all Churches, except Church Doctrine. Doctrine can never change.

Modern Catholic Dictionary
by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.
DOCTRINE. Any truth taught by the Church as necessary for acceptance by the faithful. The truth may be either formally revealed (as the Real Presence), or a theological conclusion (as the canonization of a saint), or part of the natural law (as the sinfulness of contraception). In any case, what makes it doctrine is that the Church authority teaches that it is to be believed. This teaching may be done either solemnly in ex cathedra pronouncements or ordinarily in the perennial exercise of the Church's magisterium or teaching authority. Dogmas are those doctrines which the Church proposes for belief as formally revealed by God. (Etym. Latin doctrina, teaching.)

 

Come back, come back Garabandal you're meandering down Tangent Boulevard !

I have met several Communists during a fairly long life and all that they wanted was peace, equality and justice like most committed Communists. So, should the Pope praise Communism because most of its adherents are good people? Of course not, it is a monstrous system in practice. I also live near a large community of Muslims and have worked with dozens of them. They are usually pleasant, often humorous and wouldn't hurt a fly. That is not the point being made. ISLAM IS INHERENTLY VIOLENT and anyone who reads the Koran knows it.

Listen to Pope Benedict (who was threatened with death by Muslims for making the following statement at Regensburg). He is saying that Islam sees nothing wrong in violent conversion and it is, of course, TRUE.

"The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature.[5] The editor, Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality."

Pope Francis has made statements in EG about the peaceful nature of Islam that are, according to former Muslims, and anyone who has read the Koran, let us say, charitable to the point of total inaccuracy.

 

Hilaire Belloc, in his classic book titled, "The Great Heresies", made it clear from the beginning that the religion of Mohammed (Islam) was founded on the sword, if you were not persuaded to join and follow him. It has always been that way. Now, there are those that follow Islam who are peaceful, but that is not because it teaches peacefulness with those outside their faith. They have been the most vicious aggressors of the Church since the 6th century. Communism and Islam together will join to wage physical war on the Church of Rome soon. The feast day of the Rosary was founded because of the great victory it won, in the greatest naval battle ever, over the Muslims in the Battle of Lepanto October 7, 1571.

 

Does anyone know how muslims worshiped before Mohammed and the Koran? That did not come about until 900's if I am not mistaken.

As for the discussion on the unification of the churches and really the conversion of the world, won't this not come until after the Warning. I feel after the warning there will be many who choose to bend a knee to Our Mother and they will need faithful devotees to Our Mother as their guide.

 

No. That is the Priests and Bishops job to direct the flock regarding issues of homosexuality, atheism,abortion etc. The Pope has already spoken. We do need to listen. We cannot win souls for Christ with vinegar---only LOVE. We better get with the program and walk the walk.

 

No, its not. I'm certainly not advocating bending the doctrine. Neither is Vassula. But you and I know there is so much corruption in the Church. Pomp and circumstance etc. There HAS TO BE a bending. We KNOW we have the truth. The Orthodox have the valid priesthood, the valid sacraments and the things that unite us are FAR MORE than what divides us. That is why Jesus wants to have the dates FOR EASTER united. This doesn't seems to be such a big deal--but you can bet some will make it a HUGE deal. As for the Protestants, already the Lutherans and Episcopalians are coming under the Holy See. The Church bent mightily in my opinion by allowing married priests with their wives and children come in. One of the best priests in our diocese is one of these. God be praised!

People are TIRED. People are LOST and CONFUSED. They are drawn to the Church and this Pope because he is humble and steadfast and doesn't put up with pomp and false exteriors. He is SHOWING US HOW TO LOVE. Which is the most important of all.

 

Didn't Christ say, "that they all may be one"? And I don't think we are talking about the feared "one-world religion".

 

The Universal Church prays the same petition each Good Friday for Christian unity:

Let us pray
For all our brothers and sisters
Who share our faith in Jesus Christ,
That God may gather and keep together in one church
All those who seek the truth with sincerity.

Almighty and eternal God,
You keep together those you have united.
Look kindly on all who follow Jesus your Son.
We are all consecrated to you by our common baptism.
Make us one in the fullness of faith,
And keep us one in the fellowship of love.
We ask this through Christ our Lord.
Amen.

 

True. And the reason why God will allow this persecution is the apostacy we see all around us. The Christian west has abandoned God and therein lies its downfall. The rot begins within and foundations that are not based on truth crumble.