It is hard not to think that they are all linked—the vile corrupt civil authorities and the vile corrupt church authorities. May the strong arm of God pull the mighty from their thrones...
i believe this too. God is moving through the Church and it is only the beginning. We “ain’t seen nuthin’ yet” It will be painful—worse than painful but totally necessary. Like Israel’s churchmen of old who not only refused to purify their priests and turned a blind eye...sadly our prelates have done the same. This will go from top to bottom. But I think of the great redwood trees. Without a consuming fire their seeds cannot germinate. And the fire scorched the lower trunks of the trees but does not destroy them. I’ve seen this. It is quite remarkable.
My fear is that we will see the vile corrupt civil authorities and the vile corrupt Church authorities, who both share the same world-views, combining to twist this crisis into one of predominantly heterosexual 'paedophilia', while using the opportunity for a grand persecution of those who attempt to present the true nature of this primarily homosexualist crisis, branding the latter as 'homophobes' and of being guilty of using 'hate-speech'. I would expect persecution of clergy and laity who speak out and changes in scripture, even elimination of some passages. I believe the seeds of Truth will germinate eventually, but we will have to face this consuming fire first. I hope my pessimism is entirely misplaced. Still, prepare secure hiding places for your bibles and catechisms.
I was delighted to see a report in Mundabor's site (beware, he is eminently orthodox, but goes perhaps too far in his criticisms of Pope Francis) that only 200 people showed up to hear a 'keynote address' by Cardinal Vincent Nichols, reportedly a 'liberal'. Despite propaganda to the contrary, the people don't seem to be buying this.
DeGaulle, I think that this, "combining to twist this crisis into one of predominantly heterosexual 'paedophilia'" was tried already and failed. I believe that their new plan is to continue to claim that some are born this way and to blame the ostracization (they prefer the term marginalization) of such individuals by some in the Church for where we are now. Even though Pope Francis recently stated that men who demonstrate homosexual tendencies should not be admitted to seminary, I think the Pope's actions demonstrate something else. I feel that by appointing Father James Martin as a consultant to the Vatican's Secretariat for Communications and the fact that Father James Martin gave a talk at this year's World Meeting of Families, Pope Francis is once again saying one thing and doing another. I'm pretty certain that many Catholics who are trying to save the Church realize this also and that is part of the reason why they are opposing the Youth Synod scheduled for October. Aug. 23, 2018 Fr. James Martin Criticizes ‘Homophobic’ Pastors at WMOF The priest’s presence at the World Meeting of Families caused considerable controversy before he took the stage. Christine Rousselle/CNA/EWTN News http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/fr.-james-martin-criticizes-8216homophobic8217-pastors-at-wmof DUBLIN — Jesuit Fr. James Martin addressed Thursday more than 1,000 people at the World Meeting of Families in Dublin. His Aug. 23 talk, “Showing Welcome and Respect in our Parishes for ‘LGBT’ People and their Families,” encouraged Catholics to “welcome LGBT persons and their families,” into parish life. The priest said those with “homophobic” pastors, “either silently or overtly,” are “out of luck.” Parishes, he said, should strive to listen to LGBT parishioners — “trust that the Holy Spirit will guide them in their formation as Christians and Catholics,” rather than “simply repeating Church teaching without considering their lived experience.” Martin’s speech warned: “Don’t reduce LGBT people to the call to chastity we all share.” “LGBT people are more than their sexual lives,” he said, “and if you talk about chastity with LGBT people, do it as much with straight people.” Martin is the author of Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity. The book drew praise from Cardinal Kevin Farrell, prefect of the Vatican’s Dicastery for Laity, Family and Life, and organizer of the World Meeting of Families. However, critics say the book does not directly address Catholic teaching on celibacy and chastity or engage with Catholics who identify as LGBT while observing the moral teachings of the Catholic Church. The book was criticized by Cardinal Robert Sarah, Archbishop Charles Chaput, and other Church leaders. New Ways Ministry, a dissenting Catholic group that has been the subject of warnings from the U.S. bishops and the Vatican for confusing Catholic teaching, awarded Fr. Martin in 2016 for having “helped to expand the dialogue on LGBT issues in the Catholic Church.” Martin’s Dublin talk outlined six “fundamental insights” that he believes parishes should consider in order to better serve those Catholics who experience same-sex attraction. He said that such Catholics are “as much as part of the Church as Pope Francis, the local bishop or the pastor;” that they did not choose their sexual orientation; that many have been treated as “lepers” by the Church and have high rates of suicide attempts and homelessness. He added that “LGBT people bring special gifts to the Church, like any group,” saying that those with same-sex attraction have compassion for those who are marginalized, because they have experienced marginalization. He last noted that Catholics who experience same-sex attraction long to know God; and that they are loved by God. In light of those points, Martin suggested that Catholics examine their own attitudes toward LGBT people and their families to determine whether they harbor underlying feelings of discrimination. He also said that parishes should acknowledge the LGBT community as part of a parish by mentioning them in homilies or in other presentations; and apologize to them if they have experienced harm from the church. “You can apologize. It doesn’t solve everything, but it’s a start,” he said. Martin challenged parishes to advocate for those with same-sex attraction, and to foster a culture of inclusivity. “By excluding LGBT people, you are breaking up God’s family; you are tearing apart the Body of Christ,” he added. “This is part of what it means to be a Christian: standing up for the marginalized, the persecuted, the beaten down. It’s shocking how little the Catholic Church has done this.” The priest’s presence at the World Meeting of Families caused considerable controversy before he took the stage. Ahead of the talk, more than 16,000 people signed a petition calling for the Jesuit priest to be disinvited from the event. There were also protests by LGBT groups outside of the complex where the World Meeting of Families is being held. Shortly after Martin spoke, about a dozen members of an LGBT group called the “Rainbow Choir” performed two songs — "Something Inside So Strong" and "We Are Family” — outside of the facility. Jessica Webbley-O’Gorman, who was with the Rainbow Choir, told CNA that the choir decided to perform after LGBT groups were not permitted to participate in the World Meeting of Families. Ursula Halligan, an Irish journalist who was one of the organizers of the protest, also questioned the absence of LGBT families from the event. Initially, promotional material for the World Meeting of Families included images of a same-sex couple. These images were later removed. Prior to the event, the Irish government exerted pressure on the World Meeting of Families, with one government minister warning it should not express “intolerance” of LBGT groups or same-sex couples. “There should be a welcome for all. And never again should public statements or remarks which seek to isolate certain families be tolerated,” said Katherine Zappone, the Irish Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, according to the Irish Times. Cardinal Farrell responded by saying that the event would revitalize family life and would not exclude anyone. “This encounter… is to promote the Christian concept of marriage, and the Catholic concept of marriage, and will focus on that. All people are invited; we don’t exclude anybody,” the cardinal said. **** You may want to read through the comments on the above article because many of them are very interesting. I believe that the following comment is especially worth posting here, "Those who want to leave the Church over all these things had one foot out the door already. Martin is a quack with an agenda. The scandals come from humans who are subject to the fall like everyone else. If you actually believe in the True Presence, in the words of Christ that the gates of hell will not prevail, that the Church is the Bride of Christ…you would never leave! You would simply say, “Time to pray, fast, and do penance. Besides, to whom should we go? You have the words of everlasting life.” Could I ever leave the Sacraments? NO! Because I KNOW what they are! Leaving the Church because of all of this is like seeing a fellow soldier fall on the battle field and therefore dropping your weapons, and running scared. Sifting! We are being sifted! Be careful not to run from Our Lord’s Body and be counted among the chaff!" Edited to add: The problem as I see it with many in the LGBT community is that they are not satisfied to be part of the Church as individual persons they want to be invited to the Church with their label. This is the same thing that we have witnessed in regard to the St. Patrick's Day parade, the invitation to march in the parade was always made available to them just not under the banner of LGBT until more recently. Matthew 18:2-4 (DRA) 2 And Jesus calling unto him a little child, set him in the midst of them, 3 And said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven. I don't think that most children see themselves as part of the LGBT community and even if they do I'm certain that they don't fully understand the meaning of doing so.
Yes, it is all part of the plan. It is also working. Society in general is slowly being manipulated into accepting a mockery of the image of God and these heretics seem about to take over the Church. I was instinctively about to write, 'May God Forbid'. I think He will. His means of doing so may well be frightful, with the rain falling on the just along with the unjust.
Yes. I too fear this DeGaulle. But God might permit this suffering as part of the purification. Who knows. Holding fast to the Immaculate Heart!
Not so much a division or schism perhaps as a great falling away of a portion of the Church--those who call themselves Catholic but have a distorted or under-catechized idea of what it means poisoned by years of bad faith churchmen. May God give grace to those who leave out of ignorance to come back but I think there will be an institutional church who owns the buildings and cavorts about claiming authority and then there will be the powerhouse Bride of Christ, the remnant, in obscurity but powerful in prayer and witness. The Church St. Louis de Monfort envisioned. I could be wrong of course but that's what seems to be shaping up.
I think it might be a good practice to start praying the full version of the Saint Michael prayer given to us by God through His servant Pope Leo XIII “O Glorious Prince of the heavenly host, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the battle and in the terrible warfare that we are waging against the principalities and powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, against the evil spirits. Come to the aid of man, whom Almighty God created immortal, made in His own image and likeness, and redeemed at a great price from the tyranny of Satan. “Fight this day the battle of the Lord, together with the holy angels, as already thou hast fought the leader of the proud angels, Lucifer, and his apostate host, who were powerless to resist thee, nor was there place for them any longer in Heaven. That cruel, ancient serpent, who is called the devil or Satan who seduces the whole world, was cast into the abyss with his angels. Behold, this primeval enemy and slayer of men has taken courage. Transformed into an angel of light, he wanders about with all the multitude of wicked spirits, invading the earth in order to blot out the name of God and of His Christ, to seize upon, slay and cast into eternal perdition souls destined for the crown of eternal glory. This wicked dragon pours out, as a most impure flood, the venom of his malice on men of depraved mind and corrupt heart, the spirit of lying, of impiety, of blasphemy, and the pestilent breath of impurity, and of every vice and iniquity. “These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where the See of Holy Peter and the Chair of Truth has been set up as the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered. “Arise then, O invincible Prince, bring help against the attacks of the lost spirits to the people of God, and give them the victory. They venerate thee as their protector and patron; in thee holy Church glories as her defense against the malicious power of hell; to thee has God entrusted the souls of men to be established in heavenly beatitude. Oh, pray to the God of peace that He may put Satan under our feet, so far conquered that he may no longer be able to hold men in captivity and harm the Church. Offer our prayers in the sight of the Most High, so that they may quickly find mercy in the sight of the Lord; and vanquishing the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, do thou again make him captive in the abyss, that he may no longer seduce the nations. Amen. V. Behold the Cross of the Lord; be scattered ye hostile powers. R. The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered, the root of David. V. Let Thy mercies be upon us, O Lord. R. As we have hoped in Thee. V. O Lord, hear my prayer. R. And let my cry come unto Thee. Let us pray. O God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, we call upon Thy holy Name, and as supplicants, we implore Thy clemency, that by the intercession of Mary, ever Virgin Immaculate and our Mother, and of the glorious St. Michael the Archangel, Thou wouldst deign to help us against Satan and all the other unclean spirits who wander about the world for the injury of the human race and the ruin of souls. Amen.”
You know one mistake many, many good honest Catholics make at the moment is thinking everyone is just like themselves. Off not recognising pure evil when it stares them in the face, particulary when it wears a Cardinals Robe. But having being a totally despicable rogue in my time I know them when I eyeball them. The Church is full of them at the minute, one of them riding round in a Pope Mobile. Sad times.
If there can be any upside to having fallen far down in one’s youth it is the built in radar that detects evil. I notice this especially with the occult. It’s a visceral reaction—later the proof appears that someone is into some new age or witchy stuff. Having been involved in theater when I was young I also find I can recognize same sex attraction. It helps target my prayers.
It's an extraordinary time. All we can do is stay Catholic, just like all the Catholics going back through twenty centuries to Our Lord. That might mean a very lonely station for most of us, especially if the Internet gets censored, which it inevitably will. I wouldn't call it a 'division'-that attributes too much credit to both sides. There will be Catholics and apostates. It might come to seem that it will become impossible to transmit the Faith to future generations. I think everyone has the Truth written in their soul, no matter how they try and bury it and there will always be members of each generation that will not succumb to the standard narrative. I don't think God will allow it go that far, despite Our Lord's speculating about not finding Faith on Earth upon His return.
DeGaulle, I think that you are correct, they are winning for now and I doubt very much that those in charge will change their course without a divine intervention or the result of something very, very grave occurring. I just read the following which I think will be interpreted as a success, "A Vatican-sponsored World Meeting of Families that opened on Tuesday ends Sunday in Dublin. More than 37,000 people — most of them young Catholics — signed up to attend the event, more than twice the number who did when the family rally was held in Philadelphia three years ago." https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...arts-for-1st-papal-trip-to-ireland?src=usn_fb Maybe many don't realize that they are being led off a cliff or maybe I'm wrong and those who attended know the Truth as you have stated in another post but they went to the WMoF regardless of some of the things that appear to have been promoted at the meeting. AED, What you have stated seems more likely to me and follows along with my fear that "maybe many don't realize that they are being led off a cliff". First and foremost, I believe that we need some fire and brimstone; some real reminders of heaven & hell and that we all need the sacrament of penance - to be continually reminded of how to achieve salvation because all humankind is weak. I believe that the sexual scandal in the Church is a huge reminder of this and it is a waste of an opportunity to begin to have these discussions regularly once again. **** Edited to add: The following is also from the article for which a link is provided above, 'The Vatican says Pope Francis has met with eight survivors of clerical and institutional abuse on the first day of his trip to Ireland, which is ground zero for the Catholic Church's abuse scandal. Vatican spokesman Greg Burke said Francis met with the group for about 90 minutes on Saturday evening. Among the victims was Marie Collins, a prominent survivor who served on Francis' advisory board but quit in frustration last year. She has since become a harsh critic of the Vatican, and occasionally the pope. Burke named several participants after they agreed to be identified publicly. They included two priests and a public official. Francis arrived in Dublin on Saturday and vowed to end the "scourge" of abuse. He said he shared the outrage over the cover-up of "these repugnant crimes." ' [emphasis added, my comment: we'll soon see.]
Yeah.. thi Yes, this is it; no one knows a pig unless he has been a pig himself, no one knows a pig better
