If a lay Catholic proposed that hell will be empty I would be concerned. If a priest proposed this I would be very concerned. If the head of a seminary proposed it I would be very,very concerned. But Fr Barron is a priest, the head of a seminary, a famous intellectual and media celebrity read and trusted by many millions of the Faithful all over the world, no doubt fingered as a future Cardinal. About him I am not so much concerned as swinging from the rafters. Awful. I got a desperate sinking sensation in my stomache listening to him. What is he thinking? ..the worst of it being he sounds so darn plausible; the devil often sounds this way too.
I have been wondering about something. Since for a sin to be mortal, you have to know it is a serious sin, do you think those who have not been taught the faith or have been taught it badly could still avoid hell even with unrepentant serious sin? Since they technically may not know those sins are serious or even sins at all? Could this be what Fr. Barron means?
Heidi, I really like what Marino Restrepo said he felt and learned when he was with Jesus going through the Illumination of Conscience and small judgement. Jesus said, and I am going from memory here so forgive if I am a little off, that we are measured by how much we loved. That was the end all be all of everthing which makes sense since it was his greatest commandment to love God with all you heart and your neighbor as yourself. Now Jesus did say there is the one true path in the world being the Catholic Church that he left for the world but it is all a measure of our love when we are before our judge. Now in this moment you will feel so much sorrow as you experience your sins and how they effected everyone. God's mercy is there for you to take it but unfortunatley many are so lost in their lack of love in their life (I think of a scale with say only 30% love and 70% dark) that there is no way they can accept God's mercy that is there because they feel too worthless and too lost and the reject and fall. How terrible this must be for God. Sadly, I think many still will experience this during the Warning because they too could die in horrow and be lost. If we are in the worst sins time ever, then can you even imagine the amount of people that will see their sins and be in horror and die or just literally feel they are too far gone and accept their fate and survive coming out of the event hating God even more now and begin to spread that hatred towards his people in the world. We know this persecution time will occur after the Warning and before the triumph of the Immaculate Heart. We need more rosaries and prayers dedicated to the world to strengthen those to choose Gods Mercy during the Warning.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm Invincible ignorance, whether of the law or of the fact, is always a valid excuse and excludes sin. The evident reason is that neither this state nor the act resulting therefrom is voluntary. It is undeniable that a man cannot be invincibly ignorant of the natural law, so far as its first principles are concerned, and the inferences easily drawn therefrom. This, however, according to the teaching of St. Thomas, is not true of those remoter conclusions, which are deducible only by a process of laborious and sometimes intricate reasoning. Of these a person may be invincibly ignorant. Even when the invincible ignorance is concomitant, it prevents the act which it accompanies from being regarded as sinful. The perverse temper of soul, which in this case is supposed, retains, of course, such malice as it had. Vincible ignorance, being in some way voluntary, does not permit a man to escape responsibility for the moral deformity of his deeds; he is held to be guilty and in general the more guilty in proportion as his ignorance is more voluntary. Hence, the essential thing to remember is that the guilt of an act performed or omitted in vincible ignorance is not to be measured by the intrinsic malice of the thing done or omitted so much as by the degree of negligence discernible in the act.
Hi Steven, Yes, it is a serious error, Father Barron's opinion about hell. It's not fair, Satan's attack on priests. I went to see Father Corapi when he was in my area. What happened! I loved his "always come as a servant." Everyone reading MOG, together, let us offer a rosary united with the Divine Will with the Masses offered today or which ever day you say it and united with Mary's graces, for the priests.
A wonderful idea, Jackie offering up mass this morning for priests, especially poor Fr Barron. yes and Fr Corapi too.
John 10:27-28 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: I don't think Steve that the error here is an intellectual one so much as a Spiritual one. These grave errors arise from lack of prayer , I believe, rather than lack of study. I will pray for Fr Barron for I think he needs prayers rather than words. Proverbs 28:26 Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered. I might throw my two cents in a little later, but I doubt very much if he is listening. Only grace will unblock the ears of his heart. It is a warning to us all, these are grave times. We need to stay close to God in prayer. Poor man . Reminds me of poor Fr Corapai.
"Few will see God " http://www.ourlady.ca/info/fewWillSee.htm This issue of THE VIGIL...The Message of Garabandal, a long-standing newsletter on Garabandal-related matters edited by Maria Carmela Saraco and published by St. Michael's Garabandal Center For Our Lady of Carmel, Inc., carries a brief but very important front-page article. Important for many reasons, but primarily because of the following four words: "Few will see God." These words — in the original Spanish "pocos verán a Dios" — are neither an afterthought nor a conjecture. They are, in fact, the words of the Blessed Virgin Mary Herself, as told to Mari-Loli and Jacinta on 23 June 1962. Fortunately, these chilling words are conditional. As always, a way out is provided by God...if we are willing to follow it. What does it require of us? Thankfully, nothing we do not already know: to live the Message, in word and in deed, in things large and small. Of course, a question arises from this, one we must ask ourselves anew each day: Ok, but are we really willing to live it at all costs? First, let us examine the history of this message. And yes, it is indeed a true message, in the same sense and with the same importance as the other two better-known messages (those of 18 October 1961 and 18 June 1965). There were, in fact, four messages that were to have been delivered to the world, including also the one of 19 June 1962. although attention has been given almost exclusively to the first and fourth.[In addition to Ms. Saraco, two other noted Garabandal promoters have treated these lesser-known messages as separate entities, Fernand Corteville (L 'Impartial, No. 31,1970) and Eusebio Garcia de P. (She Went in Haste to the Mountain, 2000 ed., pp. 353-5).] PHOTO: Garabandal's four visionaries: Conchita, Mary Cruz, Jacinta, and Mari-Loli. It is interesting that its predecessor message, that of 19 June, deals primarily with the castigo - the conditional punishment that awaits if we do not heed the words of the Blessed Virgin. From its horrifying description [See Garcia de P., op. cit., pp. 353-4.] alone, one is tempted to think that all peoples everywhere will embrace the Message. Yet the message that concerns us here, that of 23 June, although also conditional, indicates there may be many who will not. Now let us first go back to the original text of the message, as it was delivered by the Blessed Virgin more than 39 years ago. This is very important in arriving at a true understanding of this particular message in toto as, in the intervening years, a number of subtly different versions have appeared, including some that omit these four crucial words altogether. The original Spanish version was written down and signed by both Jacinta and Mari-Loli on the very day it was delivered. A first-generation photocopy of the message as written by the visionaries themselves is in the possession of Mrs. Saraco and reads as follows: San Sebastian [de Garabandal] 23 de junio de 1962 "La Virgen nos ha dicho que el mundo sigue igual; que no se ha cambiado nada; que pocos verán a Dios; son tan pocos que a La Virgen la da mucha pena que no cambie; La Virgen nos ha hecho que está llegando el castigo; el mundo no cambia; la copa se está llenado; ;Qué triste estaba La Virgen! Aunque a nosotros no nos lo de a ver, porque La Virgen nos quiere y ella lo sufre sola, porque es tan buena. Sean buenos todos para que La Virgen se ponga contenta. Nos ha dicho que pidamos los que somos buenos por los que son malos: pidamos a Dios por el mundo, por los que no le conocen; sean buenos, muy buenos." Maria Dolores Mazon, 13 años Jacinta Gonzalez, 13 años The English translation is rendered as follows. San Sebastian [de Garabandal] 23 June 1962 "The Virgin has told us that the world continues the same, that it has not changed at all, that few will see God. There are so few that it causes the Virgin much sorrow that it does not change. The Virgin has told us that the chastisement is coming; [as] the world is not changing, the cup is filling up. How sad the Virgin was! Although she did not let us see it, because the Virgin loves us [so much] and she suffers alone, since she is so good. Be good, everyone so that the Virgin will be happy. She has told us that we who are good should pray for those who are bad; we should pray to God for the world, for those who do not know Him. Be good, [be] very good." Maria Dolores Mazon, 13 years Jacinta Gonzalez, 13 years Mary Loli and Jacinta in ecstasy: In a letter, they said the Virgin told them that "few will see God." To his credit, Fr. Garcia de P., author of She Went in Haste to the Mountain and perhaps the best-known researcher on Garabandal, faithfully copied the entire message as it came to him. This text, along with that of the message of the 19th, first was sent to Fr. Gustavo Morelos, a Mexican priest and early promoter of Garabandal, in 1967 [Mari-Loli later related this to Ms. Saraco as well in a signed letter.]. Unfortunately, since then, for one reason or another, subsequent mentions of this message often failed to include the crucial sentence. The above text and its translation, however, restore the message to its original form. The implication of the restored text should leave no one in any doubt whatsoever as to what to expect if things do not change. A grim thought, to be sure. It is just as important, however, to remember that this is a conditional message — that it can be changed - if we are willing to do something about it ahead of time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "it is incumbent upon us to live the Message in its entirety not just for our own spiritual well being, but for that of others as well." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As with the three other messages, this one, too, was intended for everyone. Not just for you and me, but also for our family, colleagues, loved ones.. .everyone. It is incumbent upon us to live the Message in its entirety not just for our own spiritual well being. but for that of others as well. God in His mercy was willing to spare the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah if only a few righteous inhabitants were found [See Genesis 18, 19.], so too, we still have the opportunity to nullify this statement. As is often the case, it comes down to our willingness - or lack thereof - to harness our errant free will and walk along what we know or at the very least what our conscience tells us, is the correct path. It is easy to see why some would prefer this third message to be abbreviated or "toned down" a bit: On the surface, it does not seem a particularly cheerful or encouraging one. especially considering its source. Yet the option is not ours to make more palatable this or any other words from on high. We must, as the visionaries themselves did, take the perceived "good" along with the perceived "bad". The words were spoken as they appear above, and nothing can or should be added to or taken away from them. As with all gifts from God, they are not forced upon us, but gently given. It is up to us to accept them as a very real possibility, or downplay or even outright ignore them, and suffer the consequences of our decision. One need only review the history of the Israelites' wanderings to judge how effective that approach is! At this point, one may be tempted to throw up one's hands in despair and say "Well, then. That's that, so what's the use of even trying?" This would be a horrendous mistake. The Blessed Mother's intent in making this conditional pronouncement was not to sow the seeds of fatalism or pessimism. Far from it. Rather, the message was intended as a warning of what could - and would - come to pass if we do not seek to live in accordance with the precepts of God. The message is many things on the surface, and frightening is certainly one of them. But let us remember that it is only potentially frightening, if we do not change. And we can change, if we want to, with the help of the Blessed Virgin and Her Son. They both have told us so, for more than twenty centuries now. We also have the examples and prayers of the saints and the sacraments of the Church to help us. As with the prophecy of the chastisement, this vision of a future bereft of God is one we can avoid. On occasion, it may help to remember that not everything about Garabandal is all roses. Nor should it be, as Garabandal deals with humanity as it actually exists, not just as we want to imagine it should. As such, mixed with the joyous and wondrous is also a measure of the sombre and unknown, a reflexion of life as we know and live it. This more than anything else makes it all the more real to us as humans, and offers all the more reason why we should draw strength from its Message. It may help to recall as well that in spite of its dire warning, this message is fundamentally one of hope, for us and for all mankind. As the Blessed Virgin told Conchita in their last meeting, "they are all my children". She wants us to share in the promises of Her Son so much that She came herself to tell us what we must do to obtain them, and She wants these treasures for each and every one of us. Our Mother came not to change our lives for us — this would rob us of our essential human ability to freely choose — but to encourage us to do so out of love for Her and Her Son, and to give us a glimpse of what we can have if we do so, as well as what we stand to lose if we do not. Reprinted with permission from GARABANDAL INTERNATIONAL MAGAZINE July-September 2002 *** order your copy of GARABANDAL INTERNATIONAL
What do you think happened to all the people in the world after God's first chastisement with the flood? If Noah and his family were the only ones saved was the rest of the world sent to hell and/or purgatory? I wonder this because it could be a very strong indication and biblical proof from the Old Testament that the road is indeed narrow and the gate truly is small as Jesus said.
I think the Churches teaching is that no one could have entered heaven until Jesus died on the Cross. So the just waited in Paradise for their Redeemer and after he died he came to release them. It is only speculative only God can judge. Maybe it is as well not to delve too deeply into these things..in my opinion some went straight to hell. I still when I pray for them find souls in hell today. Really in hell. For all Eternity.
No I mean the ones right before the flood, not after. I am assuming most of them went to hell since God only found Noah and his family to be righteous.
Jesus said, Andy, John 14:2 Jesus Comforts the Disciples 1"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.… I always find this gives me hope and makes me wonder.... In Christ's day the Jews and Samaritans fought like cat and dog yet Jesus still found it in Him to tell the tale of the Good Samaritan. More hope; Jesus likes to judge from the inside out, rather than the outside in. At the end of the day we will, all of us be judged by love rather than by what boxes we ticked. Sometimes a source of comfort, Sometimes concern to me.
According to Ven. Mary of Agreda in the 'Mystical City of God', until Jesus' death souls were either in hell (the damned), purgatory (souls paying their debt as now) and a place that she calls 'limbo' (where the just including those who had been purged waited for the completion of Jesus' saving sacrifice). According to Mary, Jesus emptied both limbo and purgatory of those who were in those places between the Crucifixion and Resurrection.
'..According to Mary, Jesus emptied both limbo and purgatory of those who were in those places between the Crucifixion and Resurrection. ' I am not sure but in the Middle Ages they used to call this, 'The Harrowing of hell'. Sometimes in the past they did not use words like hell, paradise and limbo to mean quite what we mean nowadays.
