'How good and pleasant it is when brothers live in unity'.. I think whe we loose charity we have already lost the argument. I used to think, Andy when I was younger that if I got far enough along the path of prayer everything would be so much more certain. In a way this is wrong. It is a bit like going out in the fishing boat with Jesus , in a kind of way things do get more certain; your Faith should indeed deepen . But in another way you loose everything. Its a paradox , like so much else in the Spiritual Life. I find I am at once more certain and more uncertain than I have ever been. Without uncertainty there is no true growth.
I believe what is missing, for me at least, in everything the pope says is the word "repent." Whom am I to judge, love, mercy. The only people the pope seems to think needs repentence are those who are catholic believers. Mercy is for everyone (except unrepentent right-wing catholics) and there is never a reason for anyone else to REPENT (pope's seeming philosophy). For me, that is false mercy.
He does get it right on other occasions: http://www.christiantoday.com/artic....violence.as.death.toll.rises.to.41/89518.htm Pope Francis, meanwhile, branded the attack "brutal" during Mass in Rome this morning. "We pray for the victims, for their families, and for the beloved people of Turkey," he said. "May the Lord convert the hearts of the violent, and sustain our feet on the way of peace."
What to do? I don't know. For starters, Josephite, I should apologise to you for quoting your genuine post when venting my frustration. There is no privileged information, just a pattern of headline grabbing statements by Cardinals or other friends of the Pope, followed by affirmation by the Pope in supposedly off-the-cuff remarks in response to supposedly unexpected questions from journalists, followed by accusations that the Pope is being misquoted, followed by someone in the Vatican or some renowned Catholic apologist saying there's nothing to worry about because either it all must be interpreted in line with the Catechism, in line with Doctrine, or in light of the Pope's Argentinian background. Frankly, if this pattern were repeated in any other walk of life, nobody would believe that it wasn't a set up by spin doctors. I agree with you that links to satirical websites should be accompanied by a warning that some people might find the content offensive.
In time man forgets what the sin of Sodom brings to society. Two cities wiped off the face of the earth. Then the LORD rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah. Akita - Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. When the fire falls from heaven it will be as a result of the sins of the flesh, abortion, fornication, homosexual practise --- wiping out the good as well as the bad -- Waken up to the reality because it is us, our children and our grandchildren who are going to suffer as a result of the sins of the flesh of man.
Picco, I too wish he would also add the repent part to these off the cuff comments or at least alude to it a bit more but maybe that time will indeed come. It seems like he is trying to open the door and gathering the lost in first through love and mercy but ultimately will get to the teachings on the church. Maybe he is in tune with the events to come as we are not, so the door to the heart must be opened first. These are just maybes as I try to sort all this out too. I think about my own discussions with people. I work with a number of gay people and the ones I know are truly very good, loving people that happened to be confused, addicted and in sin. I often ask myself how should I be around them? Should I not interact with them? Would interacting with them show I am in support of them? Maybe. I definitely don't want to preach to them hell fire and brimstone so what am I left to do? Love them is the answer and show love to them and be love to them. Be Christ like and not in the sense of Christ as he overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple but more in the way he handled the adulterer or the prostitute (and yes I know he loved and forgave and then said go and sin no more). I feel like if I am a kind and loving person, this does not show that I approve of their lifestyle but it does show that I approve them as a creation of God. It is kind of like what Ghandi said, when he said he loved Jesus and Christianity but sadly has never met a true Christian. Shouldn't we try to be true Christians. Their sin is no different than any other mortal sin. Do I love my fellow Catholics who show up to mass every once in awhile? What about my friends who admit to porn or masturbation? I don't condone their sins but I also don't walk away from the friendship. We are all sinners and some of us don't even know of the depth of our sins and yet we love God and pursue Him and want to be with Him. Isn't that what the pope was trying to say with this question? When we are in sin and yet still trying to pursue God do we ourselves expect the Lord to cast us into hell? It is surely His right too and we surely belong there but alas most of us on here probably expect to be purified in purgatory and yet we too are sinners with unconfessed sins most likely. I heard a priest once talking about sin and the confessional and mentioned so many sins that he never hears confessed like pride, vanity, gluttony etc. So the question is does the Pope need to take the approach of loving as well as calling for repentance in all these off the cuff remarks or can he be gathering sinners with his love an mercy and handle the repenting in church teaching and dogma? I don't know the answer to this but we surely know which approach he is taking right now. He speaks of love and mercy but does not change any Catholic teaching or dogma. If he tries to do that then obviously it is easier for us to know the truth but until then I stand with Peter and I trust in the Lord that He knows what he is doing with His Church. As Mark Mallet said in what I posted yesterday, the Pope is the captain but Jesus is still the admiral.
How to understand Pope Francis' 'apology' to the gay community By Elise Harris Vatican City, Jun 30, 2016 / 09:35 am (CNA).- As Pope Francis on Sunday backed the idea of apologizing to gay individuals who may feel marginalized by the Church, discussion has once again broken out over how to interpret the pontiff’s words. Debate flared up overnight after the Pope responded to a question about recent comments made by Cardinal Reinhard Marx, who said the Church must apologize to homosexual persons for having “marginalized” them. While Pope Francis did not actually make an apology to the gay community, his endorsement of the idea has exploded, in part because it has been taken by many as an open endorsement for the gay lifestyle, deviating from Church teaching. On the other hand, Francis’ acknowledgement that an apology might be in order on the part of some represents something that many in the gay community have been longing to hear, many of them rightfully so. The Pope’s comments also drew attention from those who claimed that they were a criticism of the U.S. bishops, who, while mourning the recent Orlando shooting at a gay nightclub, did not explicitly express solidarity with the gay community by name. What is the correct interpretation of Francis’ comments? It is difficult to argue that the Pope was critiquing the U.S. bishops’ response to the Orlando shooting, as his own language closely mirrored that of the bishops. The Pope did not mention the gay community in his own response to the shooting, but rather responded as he normally does to tragic events, with prayer and expressions of solidarity for the loss of any human life. Furthermore, the Pope did not tell anyone to issue an actual apology. And his focus was not limited to the LGBT community. Rather, he made the broader statement that the Church “must not only ask forgiveness to the gay person who is offended,” but also to all of the people “we could have defended and we didn’t,” including the poor, and women and children who are exploited. He cited the Catechism, saying that homosexual individuals “must not be discriminated against, (but) must be respected and accompanied pastorally.” The Catechism teaches that based on Scripture, “tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’” Homosexual acts, it continues, “are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.” When speaking of homosexual persons, however, the Catechism insists that most gay individuals face “a trial” due to their sexual orientation, and “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” What Pope Francis said, then, is in no way an endorsement of the gay lifestyle, but rather clearly echoes Church teaching and displays his genuine pastoral concern for a group that has and frequently still does face hostility, including, at times, from within the Church. Benedict XVI, while head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, voiced similar thoughts in a 1986 letter to bishops on the pastoral care of homosexual persons, stressing that “it is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action.” Such treatment, he said, “deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs.” So while Francis is not the first Pope to speak out about the need to respect homosexual persons, he is perhaps more vocal in making sure that message reaches both these individuals and the world. The Pope’s approval of an apology to the gay community can also be seen as a continuation of the synodal process. One of the issues addressed at the 2014 and 2015 Synod of Bishops in Rome was how the Church might adopt a new language in communicating her teachings in modern society, particularly in relation to topics such as abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality and divorced-and-remarried Catholics. In the words of Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, who spoke at an Oct. 8, 2014, event in Rome, adopting a new language was not just “a question of the immutability of the Church’s truth, but our burning desire to find a language that can present it in a more gracious, compelling, cogent way.” Phrases such as “natural law,” “intrinsically disordered,” and living “in a perpetual state of sin,” which are used in the Catechism to describe various irregular situations, were mentioned by synod fathers as expressions up for re-consideration. While such phrases might express the Church’s position clearly, the argument was that they are either rarely understood outside of the Church, or that the tone they emit exudes moral judgement rather than an invitation to join the family of Christ. Viewed through this lens, Francis’ encouragement of an apology for any wrongs done to homosexual persons is not a watering down of Church teaching. Rather, it can be read more accurately as representing his desire to change the Church’s perspective for the purpose of dialogue. The shift is not an issue of questioning doctrine, but of viewing and treating people, of encountering them with an unchanging doctrine in a more understandable and welcoming way. Francis seems to be challenging us to see homosexual persons not primarily as those with “intrinsically disordered” inclinations, but as struggling brothers and sisters who need welcome, respect and accompaniment in order to eventually understand and accept the truth. Another key in interpreting Francis can be found in his days as cardinal in Buenos Aires. In 2010, then-Cardinal Bergoglio wrote that a proposed bill to allow same-sex marriage and adoptions would “gravely injure the family.” “What is at stake here is the identity and survival of the family,” he said in the letter. “At stake are the lives of so many children who will be discriminated against in advance, depriving them of the human maturation that God wanted to be given with a father and a mother. At stake is the outright rejection of the law of God, engraved also in our hearts.” Yet the cardinal, while clear in supporting Church teaching, also supported the legalization of same-sex civil unions, a move those close to him described as a strategy to protect the institution of marriage itself. What is seen in that situation in Argentina – as well as the current situation with the comments on the gay community – is a stance that defends the Church’s doctrine without being afraid to dialogue and encounter, to shake things up and “make a mess,” as the Pope instructed the youth of Argentina to do three years ago. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ailynews+(CNA+Daily+News)&utm_term=daily+news
That is what I said in an earlier post. Progressives want to get of the 'harsh' bits of the Catechism which 'hurt the feelings' of homosexuals. Sure - just get rid of the word sin and then everyone will be OK and get to heaven.
The ALL ARE WELCOME MASS is a monthly celebration of Sunday Mass, at which all are welcome, with a particular welcome for lgbt (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered) people, their parents, family members, and friends. Celebrants have included Archbishop Diarmuid Martin and diocesan and religious priests. We, the organisers, hope all who take part feel they belong in a PRAYING COMMUNITY. We invite you to come along and take part in the ALL ARE WELCOME MASS. We ask you to tell people about it. We are very keen to hear from Catholic priests who would like to take part as celebrants. The ALL ARE WELCOME MASS is open to the public. It takes place in the chapel in Avila Carmelite Centre, Bloomfield Avenue (off Morehampton Road), Donnybrook, Dublin 4 (parking available) on the THIRD Sunday of each month at 3.30 p.m. The liturgy, the Sunday Mass, is followed by chat over tea and coffee in Avila’s dining room. The ALL ARE WELCOME MASS started in June 2012 in the home of one of the founding organisers. In November 2013 it moved to Avila Carmelite Centre. http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/2016/06/all-are-welcome/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you accept LGBT into the Church. You accept perversion. Jesus Christ - King of Purity, pray for us and save us from this perverse generation.
This is beginning to read like a fiction novel. We have a Cardinal with the name Marx and we are wondering when communism will return. I just had to say it. I don't know a lot about this cardinal so I hesitate to say much and upset someone but I do wonder about him. I also want to say that Pope Francis did not need to give the quote that he did when he was asked if he supported this cardinal's statement but at the same time did we actually expect PF to throw CM under the bus? PF may have a problem on his hands that he is well aware of. IDK?
That is certainly not what father George Kozicki has said in his many books on Divine Mercy. He is deceased now but is considered one of the grandfathers of Divine Mercy. He helped bring the cause of st. Faustina forward. He was head of the Marian Helpers who promote Divine Mercy. Mercy is God's greatest attribute which comes out of love.
The difficulty for me with Cardinal Marx's statement is that we are the church, the members of the church are the church, correct? So for him to say the church needs to apologize...well, I know that I haven't committed any hate crimes against anyone or for that matter I haven't even said anything hateful. I think the wording is poor, the timing is poor - just dumb and poor. The Pope tried to fix it a little bit but was unsuccessful I suppose. CM came across as finger pointing after a horrific incident in Orlando against homosexuals which had nothing to with Catholics. PF had already spoke about how horrible that incident was, no one needed to hear C. Marx's statement. Now, PF gets the burden for this.
So staff members here agree with and applaud false homosexual agitprop. On Our Lady's Forum. View attachment 5100
Sorry, as much as I love and respect them, their position is theological hyperbole given their charism. It is not theologically correct/true. Read up on the attributes of God, especially those written prior to this great devotion. You might want to start here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IID http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02062e.htm
In a pithy tweet on Saturday, a prominent South African cardinal rebuked German Cardinal Reinhard Marx’s claim that the Church should “apologize” to homosexuals. “God help us! Next we'll have to apologise for teaching that adultery is a sin! Political Correctness (PC) is today's major heresy!” Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier tweeted.
