You came here with an obvious ax to grind so stop playing the victim. I've met the guys at LSN and they are one of the few outlets accurately reporting what's going on. I will not sit idly by while they are baselessly attacked.
The fact that wanting to see primary sources to confirm a claim is being cast as "an axe to grind" is evidence that a large number of people no longer care about facts or truth, only about having their own biases affirmed. I came here looking for a transcript. I have received it, but not from you. I have nothing further to say to someone who wants to question the motives of someone he doesn't know. Go read the Catechism on rash judgment.
Your very first post on this forum attacked LifeSiteNews. You were not the victim, you were trolling.
I don't trust any news media source at face value. So sorry if I unsettled your love affair with LSN and disturbed your little bubble. I do my own thinking and my own research. If people who think for themselves rather than blindly rush after the LSNgisterium are so bothersome to you, you will have to solve that difficulty on your own. Good day.
That was my initial impression. I'd be willing to bet this poster has blocked their ISP, something common to trolls and retreads.
He has blocked his IP and the style and content are simliar to Blue's and are Trollish. A love of argument for the sake of argument and a simple Trollish urge to annoy people and get on their goats for the simple joy of doing it. I always thought their was something demonic about trolls. If you are reading this you should get yourself sorted.
Gregory Augustine is definitely on the right track. I think we need to become very, very careful in discerning reports on this Pope from ALL news sources. I went to a website I follow and found a story with a link. The title of the post was "The Confession That Never Was" and there was a link to a Gloria.TVnews report. The Gloria.TVnews video report stated in a piece entitled "Confession Without Confession", that on February 11, 2016 the Pope addressed members of the roman clergy on Confession, and the only news agency that reported it was Zenit. The presenter went on to say that Pope Francis "claimed" that "somebody may receive absolution in Confession, although he remains mute." She then went on to give another quote, with a text graphic on the screen, saying in a smarmy voice "He spoke with a gesture by coming into the Confessional.", indicating that the Pope said at this address that a penitent can enter the Confessional, say not a single word, and receive absolution. So I went to Zenit news and found the story and read it and found nothing of the sort! The only statements that I found that used the words "mute" and "gesture" were these: Pope Francis: "It is not easy to put oneself before another man, although knowing that he represents God, and to confess one’s sin. One feels shame, be it for what one has done, be it for having to confess it to another. Shame is an intimate sentiment that cuts into one’s personal life and it requires on the part of the confessor an attitude of respect and encouragement. Often shame makes one mute and … The gesture, the language of the gesture. That really shook me, to find such a blatant, evil twisting of the Popes words to mean something completely different! I was ashen. From this moment on, I am going to verify and cross-reference and double-check everything bad I read about this Pope. Edited to add: Here are some more quotes using that verbiage that came before the section I posted above: "Let us give great space to this desire of God and of His forgiveness; let us have it emerge as a true expression of the grace of the Spirit who spurs to the conversion of heart. And here I recommend that you understand not only the language of the word, but also that of gestures. If someone comes to you and feels something must be removed from him, but perhaps he is unable to say it, but you understand … it’s all right, he says it this way, with the gesture of coming. First condition. Second, he is repentant. If someone comes to you it is because he doesn’t want to fall into these situations, but he doesn’t dare say it, he is afraid to say it and then not be able to do it. But if he cannot do it, ad impossibila nemo tenetur. And the Lord understands these things, the language of gestures. Have open arms, to understand what is inside that heart that cannot be said or said this way … somewhat because of shame … you understand me. You must receive everyone with the language with which they can speak." I find what the Pope said to be unspeakably beautiful (no pun intended), and he truly seems to grasp the magnitude of this sacrament. It is not simply ticking off a box so you can 'licitly' receive the Eucharist, he fully comprehends that sin is not a stain, but is in reality a wound, and that Confession isn't a trip to the drycleaner, it is a healing. He uses very beautiful and nuanced descriptions and explanations to describe something that is, for many, wrenching and painful and difficult.
I double check everything at GloriaTV. They're notorious for that. LifeStiteNews is one of the best news sources I've found. They are accurate and on the rare cases (2 or 3 over the years) when they have made an error they've retracted and corrected it as soon as they realized it. Most of the staff are active faithful pro life Catholics. Whenever someone attacks them you can be certain of their agenda from the start. (Don't be overly swayed by the posts of trolls who block their ISP address so they can open a new account after being banned.)
I would be very surprised if there is anyone in the Vatican who isn’t well aware of Ms. Bonino and her Radical Party. This is how Wikipedia describes the party: “Among other things, they are the only Italian party with a clear anti-clerical agenda, whereas most other parties either support the Catholic Church or are ambivalent. They are vocal supporters of human and civil rights, which they consider to include abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, artificial insemination, stem cell research, abolition of capital punishment all around the world and legalisation of soft drugs.”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Radicals Eugenio Scalfari (the Pope’s atheist friend who reported that the Pope told him that all the divorced who ask will be admitted to Communion) and Marco Pannella are founder members of the party. According to John Allen, two years ago Pope Francis phoned Marco Pannella in prison at Bonino’s request and persuaded him to come off hunger strike. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/wo...an-end-hunger-strike/bCt0lQLsSuE1ww9hp1OWkL/s Perhaps some human lives are more precious than others? Pannella also co-founded a series of other organizations such as the Italian league for divorce, the League for objection of conscience, the League for the abrogation of the Agreement between the Catholic Church and the Italian State (Concordat), the Centre of legal initiative "Pietro Calamandrei", as well as the Italian Association for Demographic Education. He has been at the forefront of the promotion of reforms regarding narcotics. He played a prominent role in the pro-choice movement in Italy that led to the legalization of abortion in 1978. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pannella This trio knows how to network. Following the links to people they have been associated with shows that they have been well connected. Ms Bonino managed to get herself appointed Italian Minister for Foreign Affairs in a year when her party won 0.2% of the vote and had no deputies or senators elected. She is godmother to this lady's child: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Mabel_of_Orange-Nassau (among others things, the Princess was appointed Director of EU affairs for the Open Society Institute - a George Soros foundation). Bonino wasn't a fan of Pope Benedict, as you will see from her website: http://www.emmabonino.it/press/about_emma_bonino/2436 and she accused Cardinal Ruini of the "shocking behaviour" of acting like the leader of a political party when he told Catholics to abstain on a vote about fertility and stem cell research. Pope Francis getting involved on matters of prison overcrowding and immigration doesn't attract the same criticism. Peculiar that these people have been cultivating friendship with the Vatican since Pope Benedict retired. The Vatican and the Radical Party make strange bedfellows. I have seen Scalfari described as a masonic Communist atheist. We will find out soon if he is also a prophet.
I threw in the reference to the poster at the very last, because regardless if he's a troll or not, verifying what you are reading is absolutely necessary.
You are so right. How can people not understand that evil is using the media to further the agenda of turning us away from the Pope and our Church? the only prudent course is to read his actual words as published by the Vatican, not the medias spon on his words but the actual words. Diabolical disorientation is on the loose everywhere it seems.
I am not Blue Horizon, whoever that is; I had never heard of this forum until 2 days ago when it came up in my Google search. I said only that I was looking for the transcript of the Italian interview referenced by the LSN story and that I am suspicious of LSN. Apparently anything less than cultic devotion to this mere newspaper, as though it were Sacred Scripture itself, disturbs the peace of mind of some here who would prefer their "smelly little orthodoxies" to the truth. If the LSN story is correct, why fear what the transcript will show?
Gregory, I hope you are going to stay around after all the negativity you've experienced following your first posting. As you have seen, there are strong disagreements on the forum regarding Pope Francis and I see you are someone not ready to be browbeaten... As a supporter of Pope Francis on the forum, may I just say I think we need you.
What is the language of gesture ? requirements that make the sacrament of confession valid include explicit confession of grave sins committed, and the clear intention not to commit them, as confirmed for example by Saint John Paul II in the post-synodal apostolic exhortation 1984 http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...xh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia.html The Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear as well : 1424 It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a "confession" - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm Also, Your edited part is not full, below the full document : http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...ancesco_20160209_missionari-misericordia.html In this last and official document, we can read also this quote from the Pope : "We are his ministers; and we are always the first to be in need of being forgiven by him. Therefore, whatever sin may be confessed — or if the person dare not voice it, but makes it understood, it is sufficient" I share your opinion that Confession isn't a trip to the drycleaner but we must talk to the Priest even if we are ashamed, to me "the language of gesture" does not mean anything as"if the person dare not voice it but makes it understood, it's sufficient" as well, if you do not voice your sin how can you make it understood, by drawying it maybe ? Aviso
The spirit of blue arises...it makes me wonder? He really never did anything wrong. He just used reason to find God (St. Aquinas). Even though I am more in the St. Augustine camp...the spirit of blue lives. Welcome Gregory , nice play of words. Brother al
