Lovely quote. Dear St Thomas More. People are astounded by his honesty. I suppose if he lived in London or Washington today they still would be.
Padraig below is Dr Taylor Marshall again, telling it like it is with simple sense. This time he speaks of convening a general council, according to the greatest of the Papal theologians, St Robert Bellarmine. St Robert Bellarmine states that Bishops and Cardinals have the right to call a general council for grave matters and the forth grave reason for calling a general council, is if a pope has taught manifest heresy or the pope is an incorrigible tyrant. According to the forth reason to invoke a general council, St Robert indicates that the pope is afforded room to clarify any manifest heretical statements, to clearly show adherence to Christs doctrine and Dogmas and recount any heretical teachings; So rather than admonishing the pope this gives the pope room to recognise any errors and correct any misleading statements. This sounds like what the Catholic world needs at this time. May God be with all the Cardinals and Bishops who may, (hopefully will) attend to this in the future
Dear Padraig, I think I have obtained the Bishops oath and examination that you speak of in regards to his Eminence Bishop Vigano, it is below. Is this the oath that you refer to? I was not aware that Bishops had to take this beautiful oath. Thank you for alerting me. The oath and Examination required of the Apostolic succession are truly heroic and confirming, in their Love and fidelity to Christ, the Blessed Trinity and the Truths of the Holy Catholic Church. In the Oath the Bishop must defend and protect the Pope and His successors from any and all heresy or schism and from those that wish to infect the pope with these malignancies, I suppose much like St Paul to St Peter in Galatians 2: 11-21 May our Good Pastors in the Apostolic succession, always defend the true deposit of our Holy Catholic Faith. Amen A Bishops, Oath “I, N, elect of the Church of N, from this hour henceforward will be faithful and obedient to blessed Peter the apostle, and to the holy Roman Church, and to our lord, Pope N, and to his Successors canonically elected. I will not advise, or consent, or do anything that they may lose life or member, or be taken by an evil deception, or have hands violently laid upon them in any way, or have injuries offered to them under any pretense whatsoever. The counsel indeed which they shall entrust to me, by themselves, or by their messengers or letters, I will not, to their harm, knowingly reveal to anyone. The Roman Papacy and the Royalty of St. Peter I will help them to retain and defend, without prejudice to my order, against every man. The legate of the apostolic see, in his going and returning, I will treat honorably and help in his necessities. The rights, honors, privileges, and authority of the holy Roman Church, of our lord the pope, and of his aforesaid successors, I will take care to preserve, defend, increase, and promote. Nor will I take part in any counsel, or deed, or working, in which anything may be contrived against the pope himself or the said Roman Church, to the injury or prejudice of their persons, right, honor, state, and power. And if I shall know such things to be taken in hand or managed by any whomsoever, I will hinder this as far as I can; and as soon as I shall be able, will make it known to our said pope, or to some other one by whom it may come to his knowledge. The rules of the holy fathers, the decrees, ordinances, or dispositions, reservations, provisions, and apostolic mandates, I will observe with all my might, and cause to be observed by others. Heretics, schismatics, and rebels against our said pope or his aforesaid Successors I will, as far as I can, pursue and fight against. When called to a synod I will come, unless I shall be prevented by a canonical impediment. I will myself personally visit the thresholds of the apostles every three (or four or five or ten) years; and I will render to our pope and his aforesaid Successors an account of my whole pastoral office, and of all things in anywise pertaining to the state of my Church, to the discipline of the clergy and people, finally to the salvation of the souls committed to my trust; and I will in turn humbly receive and with the utmost diligence perform the apostolic commands. But if I shall be detained by a lawful impediment, I will perform all the things aforesaid by a certain messenger specially authorized for this purpose, one of my chapter, or some other one placed in ecclesiastical dignity, or else having a benefice; or, if these are lacking to me, by a priest of the diocese; and if the clergy are altogether lacking, by some other secular or regular priest, of proven honesty and piety, well instructed in all the above-named subjects. In respect to an impediment of this sort, however, I will give information by legitimate proofs, to be transmitted by the aforesaid messenger to the Cardinal proponent of the holy Roman Church in the Congregation of the sacred Council. Assuredly, the possessions belonging to my table I will not sell, nor give away, nor pledge, nor enfeoff anew, or in any way alienate, even with the consent of the chapter of my Church, without consulting the Roman Pontiff. And if I shall make any alienation, I desire by that very act to incur the penalties set forth in a certain constitution published on this subject. So help me God, and these holy Gospels of God.” A Bishops, Examination The Consecrator examines the bishop-elect, beginning with the admonition: “The ancient rule of the holy Fathers teaches and ordains that he who is chosen to the order of bishop shall be with all charity examined diligently beforehand concerning his faith in the Holy Trinity, and shall be questioned concerning the different objects and rules which pertain to this government and are to be observed, according to the word of the apostle: “Impose hands hastily on no man.” This is done in order that he who is to be ordained may be instructed how it behooveth one placed under this rule to conduct himself in the Church of God, and also that they may be blameless who impose on him the hands of ordination. Therefore, by the same authority and commandment, with sincere charity, we ask you, dearest brother, if you desire to make your conduct harmonize, as far as your nature allows, with the meaning of the divine Scripture.” The bishop-elect answers: “With my whole heart I wish in all things to consent and obey.” The Consecrator interrogates further, with the bishop-elect responding: “Will you teach the people for whom you are ordained, both by words and by example, the things you understand from the divine Scriptures?” “I will” [Volo, or It is my will to do so]. “Will you receive, keep and teach with reverence the traditions of the orthodox fathers and the decretal constitutions of the Holy and Apostolic See?” “I will.” “Will you exhibit in all things fidelity, submission, obedience, according to canonical authority, to Blessed Peter the Apostle, to whom was given by God the power of binding and of loosing, and to his Vicar our Holy Father, Pope N. and to his successors the Roman Pontiffs?” “I will.” “Will you refrain in all your ways from evil and, as far as you are able, with the help of the Lord, direct them to every good?” “I will.” “Will you observe and teach, with the help of God, chastity and sobriety?” “I will.” “Will you, as far as your human frailty shall allow, always be given up to divine affairs and abstain from worldly matters or sordid gains?” “I will.” “Will you yourself observe, and likewise teach others to observe humility and patience?” “I will.” “Will you, for the Lord’s sake, be affable and merciful to the poor and to pilgrims and all those in need?” “I will.” The Consecrator says to him: “May the Lord bestow upon thee all these things and every other good thing, and preserve thee and strengthen thee in all goodness.” He then examines the bishop-elect on matters of the Catholic Faith: “Do you believe, according to your understanding and the capacity of your mind, in the Holy Trinity, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, one God almighty and the whole Godhead, in the Holy Trinity coessential, consubstantial, coeternal, and coomnipotent, of one will, power and majesty, the Creator of all creatures, by whom are all things, through whom are all things, and in whom are all things in Heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, corporeal and spiritual?” “I assent and do so believe.” “Do you believe each single person of the Holy Trinity is one God, true, full and perfect?” “I do believe.” “ Do you believe in the Son of God, the Word of God eternally begotten of the Father, consubstantial, coomnipotent and coequal in all things to the Father in divinity, born in time of the Holy Ghost from Mary ever Virgin, with a rational soul, having two nativities, one eternal from the Father, the other temporal from the Mother, true God and true Man, proper and perfect in both natures, not the adopted nor the fantastic, but the sole and only Son of God in two natures and of two natures, but in the singleness of one person, incapable of suffering and immortal in his divinity, but Who suffered in his humanity for us and for our salvation, with real suffering of the flesh, and was buried, and, rising on the third day from the dead with a true resurrection of the flesh, on the fortieth day after resurrection, with the flesh wherein he rose and with his soul, ascended into Heaven and sitteth at the right hand of the Father, thence to come to judge the living and the dead, and to render to everyone according to his works as they shall have been good or bad?” “I assent and so in all things do I believe.” “Do you believe also in the Holy Ghost, full and perfect and true God, proceeding from the Father and the Son, coequal and coessential, coomnipotent and coeternal in all things with the Father and the Son?” “I do believe.” “Do you believe that this Holy Trinity is not three Gods, but one God, almighty, eternal, invisible and unchangeable?” “I do believe.” “ Do you believe that the holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is the one true Church in which there is but one true baptism and the true remission of all sins?” “I do believe.” “Do you also anathematize every heresy that shall arise against this holy Catholic Church?” “I do anathematize it.” “Do you believe also in the true resurrection of this same flesh of yours, and in life everlasting?” “I do believe.” “Do you believe also that God and the Lord Almighty is the sole author of the New and Old Testaments, of the Law, and of the Prophets, and of the Apostles?” “I do believe.” Afterwards the Consecrator says: “May this faith be increased in thee, by the Lord, unto true and eternal happiness, dearest brother in Christ.”
I have also found the following information according to the fathers and the Doctors of the church in regards to manifest heresy taught by the hierarchy. St. Jerome writes, adding that the other sinners are excluded from the Church by sentence of excommunication, but the heretics exile themselves and separate themselves by their own act from the body of Christ. Now, a Pope who remains Pope cannot be avoided, for how could we be required to avoid our own head? How can we separate ourselves from a member united to us? Non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope the reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member; now he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian (lib. 4, epist. 2), St. Athanasius (Scr. 2 cont. Arian.), St. Augustine (lib. de great. Christ. cap. 20), St. Jerome (contra Lucifer.) and others; therefore the manifest heretic cannot be Pope. The Holy Fathers teach unanimously not only that heretics are outside of the Church, but also that they are “ipso facto” deprived of all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and dignity. St. Cyprian (lib. 2, epist. 6) says: “We affirm that absolutely no heretic or schismatic has any power or right”; and he also teaches (lib. 2, epist. 1) that the heretics who return to the Church must be received as laymen, even though they have been formerly priests or bishops in the Church. St. Optatus (lib. 1 cont. Parmen.) teaches that heretics and schismatics cannot have the keys of the kingdom of heaven, nor bind nor loose. St. Ambrose (lib. 1 de poenit., ca. 2), St. Augustine (in Enchir., cap 65), St. Jerome (lib. cont. Lucifer.) teach the same. Pope St. Celestine I (epist. ad Jo. Antioch., which appears in Conc. Ephes., tom. I, cap. 19) wrote: “It is evident that he [who has been excommunicated by Nestorius] has remained and remains in communion with us, and that we do not consider destituted [i.e. deprived of office, by judgment of Nestorius], anyone who has been excommunicated or deprived of his charge, either episcopal or clerical, by Bishop Nestorius or by the others who followed him, after they commenced preaching heresy. For he who had already shown himself as deserving to be excommunicated, could not excommunicate anyone by his sentence.” And in a letter to the clergy of Constantinople, Pope St. Celestine I says: “The authority of Our Apostolic See has determined that the bishop, cleric, or simple Christian who had been deposed or excommunicated by Nestorius or his followers, after the latter began to preach heresy shall not be considered deposed or excommunicated. For he who had defected from the faith with such preachings, cannot depose or remove anyone whatsoever.” St. Nicholas I (epist. ad Michael) repeats and confirms the same. Finally, St. Thomas also teaches (S. Theol., II-II, q. 39, a. 3) that schismatics immediately lose all jurisdiction, and that anything they try to do on the basis of any jurisdiction will be null. There is no basis for that which some respond to this: that these Fathers based themselves on ancient law, while nowadays, by decree of the Council of Constance, they alone lose their jurisdiction who are excommunicated by name or who assault clerics. This argument, I say, has no value at all, for those Fathers, in affirming that heretics lose jurisdiction, did not cite any human law, which furthermore perhaps did not exist in relation to the matter, but argued on the basis of the very nature of heresy. The Council of Constance only deals with the excommunicated, that is, those who have lost jurisdiction by sentence of the Church, while heretics already before being excommunicated are outside the Church and deprived of all jurisdiction. For they have already been condemned by their own sentence, as the Apostle teaches (Tit. 3:10-11), that is, they have been cut off from the body of the Church without excommunication, as St. Jerome affirms. Besides that, the second affirmation of Cajetan, that the Pope heretic can be truly and authoritatively deposed by the Church, is no less false than the first. For if the Church deposes the Pope against his will it is certainly above the Pope; however, Cajetan himself defends, in the same treatise, the contrary of this. Cajetan responds that the Church, in deposing the Pope, does not have authority over the Pope, but only over the link that unites the person to the pontificate. In the same way that the Church in uniting the pontificate to such a person, is not, because of this, above the Pontiff, so also the Church can separate the pontificate from such a person in case of heresy, without saying that it is above the Pope. But contrary to this it must be observed in the first place that, from the fact that the Pope deposes bishops, it is deduced that the Pope is above all the bishops, though the Pope on deposing a bishop does not destroy the episcopal jurisdiction, but only separates it from that person. In the second place, to depose anyone from the pontificate against the will of the deposed, is without doubt punishing him; however, to punish is proper to a superior or to a judge. In the third place, given that according to Cajetan and the other Thomists, in reality the whole and the parts taken as a whole are the same thing, he who has authority over the parts taken as a whole, being able to separate them one from another, has also authority over the whole itself which is constituted by those parts. The example of the electors, who have the power to designate a certain person for the pontificate, without however having power over the Pope, given by Cajetan, is also destitute of value. For when something is being made, the action is exercised over the matter of the future thing, and not over the composite, which does not yet exist, but when a thing is destroyed, the action is exercised over the composite, as becomes patent on consideration of the things of nature. Therefore, on creating the Pontiff, the cardinals do not exercise their authority over the Pontiff for he does not yet exist, but over the matter, that is, over the person who by the election becomes disposed to receive the pontificate from God. But if they deposed the Pontiff, they would necessarily exercise authority over the composite, that is, over the person endowed with the pontifical power, that is, over the Pontiff. Therefore, the true opinion is the fifth, according to which the Pope who is manifestly a heretic ceases by himself to be Pope and head, in the same way as he ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; and for this reason he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the opinion of all the ancient Fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction, and outstandingly that of St. Cyprian (lib. 4, epist. 2) who speaks as follows of Novatian, who was Pope [i.e. antipope] in the schism which occurred during the pontificate of St. Cornelius: “He would not be able to retain the episcopate [i.e. of Rome], and, if he was made bishop before, he separated himself from the body of those who were, like him, bishops, and from the unity of the Church.” According to what St. Cyprian affirms in this passage, even had Novatian been the true and legitimate Pope, he would have automatically fallen from the pontificate, if he separated himself from the Church. This is the opinion of great recent doctors, as John Driedo (lib. 4 de Script. et dogmat. Eccles., cap. 2, par. 2, sent. 2), who teaches that only they separate themselves from the Church who are expelled, like the excommunicated, and those who depart by themselves from her or oppose her, as heretics and schismatics. And in his seventh affirmation, he maintains that in those who turn away from the Church, there remains absolutely no spiritual power over those who are in the Church. Melchior Cano says the same (lib. 4 de loc., cap. 2), teaching that heretics are neither parts nor members of the Church, and that it cannot even be conceived that anyone could be head and Pope, without being member and part (cap. ult. ad argument. 12). And he teaches in the same place, in plain words, that occult heretics are still of the Church, they are parts and members, and that therefore the Pope who is an occult heretic is still Pope. This is also the opinion of the other authors whom we cite in book I De Ecclesia. The foundation of this argument is that the manifest heretic is not in any way a member of the Church, that is, neither spiritually nor corporally, which signifies that he is not such by internal union nor by external union. For even bad Catholics [i.e. who are not heretics] are united and are members, spiritually by faith, corporally by confession of faith and by participation in the visible sacraments; the occult heretics are united and are members although only by external union; on the contrary, the good catechumens belong to the Church only by an internal union, not by the external; but manifest heretics do not pertain in any manner, as we have already proved.
Yes! I believe this is the emotional scene when his family is allowed to visit Thomas in prison (with the stipulation that they attempt to sway him to capitulate to the Crown.) I always get teary-eyed when I view it. I watch the movie every year. Saint Thomas More, pray that we not submit to tyranny!
There is a saying that people get the rulers they deserve. I believe that is true also of the Church. That we get corrupt and evil leadership on account of our sins. I have the uneasy feeling that the Holy Spirit is pointing the Finger of Accusation right back at myself when I consider these many and terrible, evil people we have had inflicted on us all. There is nothing new in all of this as there was nothing new about it in the history of the Chosen people in history. The Church rose in radiant splendor at Pentecost then became besmirched , renewed and rose again, over and over again time and time again , in for instance the Reformation and Counter Reformation. Now we have the most corrupt and terrible leadership in 2,000 years.God has assured us He will save the Church by two extreme measures. . Firstly a terrible, terrible persecution which will appear to end the Church herself and during which the foul fiends that govern us will of course flee like snow of the ditch. Secondly the Direct Action of the Holy Spirit which will Illumine us in our sins. I am afraid those of us who await our Bishops and Cardinals to awake from their slumber will have a very long wait indeed.
