Just to be clear, you are saying that Catholics who went through a legitimate annulment process and in good faith trusted the judgement of the Church may wind up in Hell because the annulment was not actually valid?
BK, the eucharist and the proper reception of it deals with doctrine (our faith) not discipline. No one aware of grave sin may receive eucharist and this teaching is part of our faith.
Agreed! But there are many who will be willing to go along with the Kasper proposal if the pope signs off on it. Again, "if" is a mighty big word.
Of course not. 'Validity' is a legal term. God doesn't look at legal niceties, He looks only at the heart. Always.
Whenever we students would throw out "ifs," my high school global studies teacher, Mr. Zygaj (may he rest in peace), used to say: "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas." Hear, hear!
Is the fact that the Church can be wrong on annulments your personal opinion or is this something that is known as part of the process. I have never heard someone say this before unless of course there was deliberate obfuscation. I have always heard that if the Church comes to a judgment the person can rest assured, but perhaps not.
I am afraid I got an email from MAC (Luke) saying he is leaving the forum. I will miss him so much if he does go. I will write him back in the morning trying to talk him into staying. I get so fond of people on the forum. I would say discussions on subject matter like this imposes its own ..well... burden on people. It is not an easy subject. I am pretty hard boiled but and have a thick skin but still.... difficult times.
When Henry VIII requested from the Pope an annulment of his marriage to Catherine of Aragon he rather assumed it wouldn't cause too much of a problem providing he made it clear that this was something he really wanted. But he was mistaken on this occasion and the rest is history as the saying goes. If you studied the rules that are considered in the annulment process you would find many areas that are far from black and white. The assessors are all human with varying views on what is 'right' or 'wrong'. I'm sure they try to do their best but some will inevitably stricter than others in applying the rules.
Spiritually you know I would advise , since it is so intense in nature , not to got he whole hog at it all time. Not to get too involved. To be like the bee dipping in and out with periods of intense thought and prayer. Yes the mind is important but the heart is even more important. The Holy Spirit is a gentle breeze . Be gentle not too intense and fractious. Don't be afraid of leaving this thread and praying. Pray before posting. Don't post too often. Be gentle on yourself. Be kind and gentle to others.
..and always always be humble, none of us have a monopoly on the truth . Be better at reading others thoughts than putting forward your own.
I pray he does not leave. I very much appreciate his humor, especially in weighty subjects. He always has a hobbit-ism or two to throw into the mix.
This is exactly what I did this past week Padraig. I stepped away except for a few brief check-ins. Stepping back can give you a better perspective sometimes. When I first arrived here I found myself getting very caught up in the buzz-saw of debate that was going on at the time. I found myself writing some hastily worded angry posts I now regret. This is the first forum I have belonged to and it took some getting used to. Now I have a maxim of try to never post while angry and also to see the good in those who have views that may be very opposed to your own. I don't always succeed but it is a goal. I hope we can all see we all have the same destination, we just have different views sometimes on how to get there.
Yes it is wearing . But I saw a quote I like and fills me with hope: “I think that God permits that the evil inside the Church must grow and reveal itself in all its wickedness, and then God will intervene and make shine the truth and the beauty of the faith…” I recall a story aBout Pope John the 23rd I love. One night , during the run up to Vatican 2 he was sleepless studying the documents...then with a touch of the Holy Spirit he said, 'It is your Church you will take care of it'. Then he went to sleep like a a little baby. For whatever good it does and to whoever listens with an open heart. There is indeed a conspiracy of Satan that reaches to the very highest levels of the Church , very organised and malevolent that is about to manifest itself.
Forgive me if I remind you of St Paul who said he will boast: 2 Corinthians 11:30 Paul's Sufferings and Service …29Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern? 30If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.…
I am a poor sinner but who one, who, like St Paul , prays without ceasing. Read my writings on this forum. I am by no means a stranger to God. Satan has entered the Inner Sanctum I do not give this warning lightly
