It is my understanding that Hell is dark because it is without the light of the Holy Spirit. It is flame because the love of God is fire. To those who love Him it is exquisite love and joy. To those who hate Him because they hate Him it is excruciating pain. His Love encompasses the universe. How we experience it depends on our state of soul. The demons do torment lost souls because they are tormented themselves. A vicious circle. This is my "theological" understanding of hell from what I have read but I am willing to be corrected.
When God created the angels, it is said, they were told their mission and at that very moment they either accepted it or rejected it. A final choice from the moment they were each created. Hence, we have the good Angels who love us, and the others who hate us. We have been given a great gift of an entire lifetime to find our way, seeking/accepting help when needed and offering help to others according to our own God given gifts. Part of this, for us as human beings, is to seek out God's will ~ In the end, we too will make our final choice. Whether we choose life everlasting, or everlasting "death", it will be a choice we will each face individually. This is the final Mercy of a Good God, one final everlasting choice. That's my understanding, fwiw.
No doubt eternal damnation and hell are unpleasant thoughts But, I think many of us (myself at top of list) put ourselves into "hell" while on this earth. The judgements, anxieties, bad actions I take and have do put me into a sort of hell as it causes my unhappiness. If I truly was a "Christian" in the full sense of what that means, then nothing would separate me from the love of Jesus Christ where all my happiness is. I suppose the positive way to look at this... with the spirit of Jesus Christ truly within me, then I have heaven on earth. I am a WIP!
I have read that the angels were first shown the crucified Christ and advised they had to worship this human being. Some were too proud and fell. It is also said that the fallen angels have never seen, and never will see, the face of God. This is also the fate of those human beings who are damned. Lord Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven...
This is what the earlyChurch Fathers taught. They rejected Christ as beneath their angelic glory. I have always loved that St Michael spoke up in defense of God. In the 9 choirs of angels he was a far lesser rank than Lucifer but had great humility and great love for God. And like David the Shepherd boy many eons later he took on the Goliath and defeated him. How Our Lord loves humility. St Michael protect us.
I think we should pay great attention to these Early Fathers. Our Lord said much more to the Apostles and to His other disciples than what is recorded in the Gospels. Didn't St John intimate there weren't enough books in the world to contain accounts of all of Christ's deeds and presumably the same applies to His words? But, those Early Fathers were sufficiently close to Events that they would have heard much oral testimony of them, not recounted in the Gospels. Some theologians are adamant that, due to near universal illiteracy in those times, oral testimony was much more skilled and accurate. It is said that as people have become literate, their memories and ability to describe them have atrophied from lack of use.
I find it incredible to think that after death, we acquire a level of knowledge about Christian theology that surpasses a lifetime of studies. Imagine a Protestant pastor arriving in purgatory and discovering that there has always been a true historical church fully visible on earth.
Makes total sense to me. I remember many years ago being told that it wasn't important to memorize anything as long as you knew how and where to look it up. That advice never served me well.....
Excellent! Yes the oral tradition was incredibly accurate because our brains had that capacity to remember long passages verbatim. As I understand it, from my friend who majored in classics, the Iliad and Odyssey were recited from memory. They were only written down much later when writing appeared along with reading. According to her, studies have shown that the introduction of writing/ reading altered human brains over time and we lost that ability to remember as the ancients did.
I cannot agree with Pope Francis, but after reading this terrifying description of Hell I can understand why you feel this way. It is difficult to comprehend this level of brutal punishment for all eternity, but I suppose you reap what you sow. Late last night as I was reading about the punishments of these souls who were condemned, human compassion got the best of me and I found myself feeling very sorry for some of them, like the 16 year old girl whose feet were perpetually on fire. I was reminded of John Bosco's vision when he saw the young boys ensnared by the devil's traps, and falling into the abyss. It hits you hard when you know that there is no way out for these souls, and no second chance to repent.
I am agnostic regarding Medjugorje , but I would really like to believe in this apparition's teaching that most souls currently go to purgatory.
Saint Peter tells us that charity covers a multitude of sins. I wonder if this commandment, which is fulfilled in an exemplary way even by many pagans, combined with invincible ignorance, can be an instrument to direct many souls to the purifying fire of purgatory.
The crucified Christ. As well as our Mother Mary. There single choice is eternal. We differ as we can repent of our bad choices and amend our lives and worship.
Exhibit I: St. Leonard of Port Maurice: "The following narrative from Saint Vincent Ferrer will show you what you may think about it. He relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, "Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-three thousand people also died. Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell." Hell: 33,000 Purgatory: 3 (or 3000?) Heaven: 2 ("in that very hour that he passed away") Exhibit II: A Prophetic Calculation: "There are ten times more souls in Hell than in Purgatory. The billions of souls in Hell, all in different levels, outnumber those in Heaven by thirty-three for every single soul." Approximate Percentages (based on the above quote) Hell: 88.5% [n=330] Purgatory: ~8.5% [n=33] Heaven: ~2.5% [n=10] Exhibit III: The Common Opinion of the Saints “The common opinion is that the greater part of adults are lost.” -Saint Alphonsus Liguori, -Mystic and Doctor of the Church "It is certain that few are saved." – Saint Augustine, Doctor of the Church "Out of one hundred thousand sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely one will be saved." -Saint Jerome, Father and Doctor of the Church "The number of the elect is so small — so small — that, were we to know how small it is, we would faint away with grief: one here and there, scattered up and down the world!” -Saint Louis Marie de Montfort "So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved!" –Saint Philip Neri, mystic “The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few – not as many as ten – went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and those cast into Hell were as numerous as snowflakes in mid-winter.” -Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, mystic “Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh. […] With the exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned.” -Saint Remigius of Rheims “The number of the damned is incalculable.” -Saint Veronica Giuliani, mystic "A great number of Christians are lost.” -Saint Leonard of Port Maurice “Oh, how many souls lose Heaven and are cast into Hell!” -Saint Francis Xavier "So many people are going to die, and almost all of them are going to Hell! So many people falling into hell!” –Blessed Jacinta, visionary of Fatima “Taking into account the behavior of mankind, only a small part of the human race will be saved.”-Sister Lucia, visionary of Fatima “I was watching souls going down into the abyss as thick and fast as snowflakes falling in the winter mist.” -Blessed Benedict Joseph Labre, mystic “The number of the saved is as few as the number of grapes left after the vineyard-pickers have passed.” -Saint John Vianney, the Cure of Ars, mystic
That's so interesting! It makes me think of how the Medjugorje visionaries can remember Mary's message to them verbatim, after the apparition is over, long enough to tell it to whomever needs to write it down and disseminate it. Like God restores that ability for them when needed.
Universalists use Jesus' words 'I will draw all men to myself' as an indicator that Christ will save all. What are we to make of that verse?
Universalism exists because the Church has refused to commit to the dogma that souls are definitely in hell.
