John Paul II was, is and will always be a Saint, please stop casting doubts on him! - he performed many exorcisms and even miracles that have been reported while he was alive - I specifically remember one of a paralyzed person that started to walk after embracing him during a trip to Spain. The facts that you report above may be true just in part, because they could have been reported only in part or facts could have been distorted, or what is reported to us may just be half of the story, you just don’t have all the facts, that is your problem - do you really know what happened to him with a voodoo chieftain other than what is being reported to us by who knows who? Of course the Assisi meeting is what it is, yet consider this. There is one important point about Catholic teaching here to take into consideration when judging his meeting in Assisi. The Church has always taught that in the Epiphany the Magi, pagan people that worship pagan gods, symbolize among other things the different religions of the world - in particular the fact that every religion is in itself a partial and honest search for the Truth and that for those who really search for the truth through their religion it is possible to ultimately recognize Christ as the absolute Truth, the only true God, when they come to see Him - this is what happened to the pagan Magi. Christ and His Church are the complete fulfillment of that search because only He is the Truth. All religions, to the extent that they pursue knowing the truth, point to Christ, in whom the Truth is completely revealed to the whole World. That is why when you meet Christ you need to leave everything else behind you, because it is the end of an old path and the beginning of a new path (symbolized by the Magi not going back to the path that took them to Christ!) I have no doubt John Paul II may well have intented in Assisi the conversion of those religious leaders and their communities, that is, to get them even just a bit closer to the Truth - for many of them, like the Dalai Lama, that meeting may have been the closest he has been to Christ Our Saviour and that always leaves a mark... so yes that was most certainly the ultimate goal of the meeting because there is no peace without conversion, and because I have no doubt JPII did everything with an apostolic end in mind. As a note, just this week, I listened to the witness of an imam that became a fervent and apostolic Catholic witness by deepening his understanding of the Qran and truly searching for the Truth in it. His muslim family has now attempted to kill him several times. His witness is astonishing...
The thing that oncivinces me John Paul was a saint was his inner spiritual life of which we get some glimpses. He knew intense suffering from childhood, loosing his father , mother and elder brother at a very early age. He knew persectuion for a very early age both under the Nazis and the communists. So there was always this huge shadow of the Cross in his life. His spirituality was Carmelire , he did his Doctorate on St John of the Cross (mysticism). His first spiritual gide a humble tailor was a saint and is up for canonisation. His chaffeur as Archbishop of Kracow tells a story of how the Communists used to call him to meetings at a moments notice and then keep him waiting for ages just to annoy him . But the saint used to just sit there saying the rosary showing no signs of impatience. There's no doubt he was a saint really. He met and knew Padre Pio and one time obtained a friends cure from cancer through his intercession.
Would anyone care to answer the question I asked about your response if a priest were to do what JPII allowed at Assisi? DivineMercy has also asked for an explanation or justification, but no one can answer.
With all due respect Jarg, the underlined seems to me like a rationalistic quote According to the syllabus of errors, this is not what the Church has always taught Condemned; III. INDIFFERENTISM. LATITUDINARIANISM 15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.—Allocution Maxima Qui d em , June 9,1862; Damnatio Multipli c es Inter June 10, 1851. 16. Man may, in the observance of any religion what- ever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eter- nal salvation.—Encyclical Qui Plurib us, Nov. 9, 1846. 17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ .—Encyclical Qu a nto Conf i ci a mur, Aug, 10, 1863, etc. 18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.— Encyclical Noscitis Dec. 8 1849 http://www.rosingsdigitalpublications.com/pius_ix_pope_quanta_cura_and_the_syllabus_of_errors.pdf Pursuing the truth would lead to the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church, which is attainable
I have personally met Mario Joseph and heard his testimony. He found the truth after seeking to know who the Jesus that is mentioned in the Quran really is.
As far as I know, this video is fake news. If it were true, surely it would have been announced through Vatican and other news channels, and his body would now be on display.
SgCatholic, I'm a chaplain in an University hospital here in Syracuse, NY. We are trained to be responsive to the spiritual needs of the patients. If a Hindu patient wishes a shrine to be setup in the room during their stay, we have flowers, water, and a statue of Krishna to do so. Personally, I could supply flowers and water, but would avoid providing the idol. What if a stink arose over such a refusal? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Will I stand my ground? I am grieved like you by the Assisi affair because of the resultant actions taken by some (the Buddha instance for one) and by the universalistic interpretation promoted by the press. I definitely don't believe it bore much fruit. Pope John Paul II made good use of his public appeal to promote the Gospel, but as noted, every choice he made was not always right and did not always work out well. But I would like to point out that the saints, as they drew closer to God, were ever aware of their own sinfulness: 1Tim 1: 15 The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. And I am the foremost of sinners; 16 but I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience for an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. I would not be surprised if every saint looks down from heaven on the day of their canonization, and chuckles saying, "If only they knew!" And this is why I believe so many turn away from the grace offered in the Dark Night of the Soul, because the dryness of this desert gift of God requires such a letting go of self and entrustment to God. Many are the layers of sin within my own soul! But the Lord will yet rescue me! 2Tim 4: 18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil and save me for his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory for ever and ever. Amen!
The only reason I have pushed this issue is because of the complete denial and excuses of those who refuse to see that we have been having heretical ideas from post conciliar popes for a while, not just with Francis. For some reason everyone acknowledges the problems with statements by Francis, but completely chokes and balks at the very idea that JPII is guilty as well. This refusal to admit his failings bother me. Why is it so difficult to admit and lament the truth of the matter? Our Church is suffering, and has been for awhile. It indicates a cult type mentality and personal attachment to JPII that blinds one to truth. We must not be personally attached to anything on earth, including persons, as the Lord has ALWAYS taught the saints. I haven't even bothered to post all of the highly questionable things that JPII said that contradict the previous teachings of the Church, because no one will even feign being upset over Buddha on a Tabernacle without offering excuses. You can easily watch video footage of this on YouTube, but it's not the only problem with the multiple Assisi events. Again, I'm merely pointing out that all the post conciliar popes have said things that are questionable, if not proven to be technically heretical. It's not a new thing that Francis started. I pray for the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart, because this last century has been riddled with heresy that no one recognizes because we are so conditioned in Modernism that we don't even realize that we adhere to it.
I am not saying that men can achieve salvation in the observance of their own religion. You have misunderstood what I said... The magi symbolize, among other things, how that search for truth which is inherent to almost any religion, leads ultimately and inevitably to find and convert to Christ and His Church, where Truth is fully revealed. If the pursuit and search for the truth is inherent to any religion, and this search ultimately points to Christ, then any religion that is not the Catholic Faith is but a partial or even maybe derailed attempt (but still an attempt) to arrive to that fullness of Truth which is Christ. In other words, the truth every human being seeks in their religion or political pursuit or whatever it is, has been revealed to the world in Christ Jesus, and it can only be found in Him, and to the extent people are seeking for the truth in their own religion or theory, they are ultimately looking for Christ.
Here is a section from Mortalium Animos by Pope Pius XI On Religious Unity: 2. A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion." http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm Please read the rest at the link
The following short video by Fr Albert of the Fatima Center explains briefly what was wrong with the Assisi events
Padraig, I think that the video which is labeled "Pope John Paul II body is found incorruptible!" is labeled incorrectly but it is still a wonderful commemoration to this saint. I meant to post the following yesterday, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-II-exhumed-ahead-beatification-Vatican.html . For those who are determined to discredit this very holy man, Pope Saint John Paul II, maybe you should start a new thread because I don't believe that was Brian's intention when he started this thread. In addition, maybe you can make a list of all the saints that you know who made mistakes in their lifetimes. I am certain that it won't be a short list and you will have proven what we know already that no man or woman is perfect.
Check out the definition of Circular Firing Squad on another thread here on the forum. with all due respect
Of course no one is perfect, but I'm not talking about anyone. I'm talking about the popes. The popes who teach and are the visible head of the Church Militant. Again this is deflection and ignoring the truth.
And I'm talking about the circular firing squad that seems to exist here. No one wins. No one is winning.
With all due respect, I feel that you have been on a personal mission to discredit and run over most of what Sgcatholic and I have been trying to say not only on this thread but on multiple threads. That thread shows how I feel about the matter.
Ditto. That's why I say no one wins. We each feel as though we have to stand up for ourselves. That is why Brian asked for the sake of unity to stop the back-and -forth and let the Blessed Mother sort it out in time. I ask for that as well.
Unity cannot be attained until the Triumph. It is impossible, but I'm not trying to cause discord on purpose. For instance, I think that Medjugorie is certainly a fraud, most likely demonic, but for the sake of charity and "unity" I don't peruse that board looking for a fight. I also ignore most of Fatimas posts on messsges that I believe are fake as well in order not to offend. However I have the right to post true Catholic teaching if everyone else is able to gloat over unapproved messages, imo.
