Amazon Synod Working Document Released Today, and It Confirms There’s Trouble on the Horizon

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by sparrow, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Here's a very educational documentary which is a must see for a real taste of what new divine revelation we can learn from the indigenous people of Peru's Amazonian region. For those who were impressed by the female shaman blessing herself for the Pope, there's about seven or eight minutes' viewing which should be a real eye opener beginning at about the 36th minute. Then skip to the documentary maker's "hope" for the people at the 52:30 mark:



    According to the credits at the end of the video, the film was made possible "due to the great help and support" of three people, one of them Bishop Anton Gerard Zerdin. I did a search for Bishop Zerdin (he's a Franciscan from Croatia) and found this: http://www.croatia.org/crown/articl...an-Indians-founded-by-Msgr-Gerardo-erdin.html
    That's a Croatian website, and the film about Nopoki University which they recommend was directed by the same person who made the above documentary about surviving the rain season. Here's some information about how Nopoki: http://latinalista.com/columns/glob...or-indigenous-students-in-the-peruvian-amazon

    And what are the idigenous students learning there? Here's one example from the Latina Lista article:

    "Diógenes Campos, a 23-year-old Asháninka, is in the second entering class and lives in the indigenous community Aerija. From 2008 to 2010, he lived at Nopoki, but because he has a wife and son, he lives in his community and walks an hour each way to the university.​

    In the future, he wants to work as a teacher in his community and to promote the development of agriculture, tourism, handicraft production and health.​

    Unlike earlier generations, Diógenes believes in family planning and only wants to have two children. That is just one of the cultural changes he wants to inspire among his compatriots."​

    Cultural colonisation?
     
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  2. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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    Here in Brazil, I am seeing a significant increase in resistance to the pontificate of Francis, as a result of the Amazon Synod. I saw friends and family criticize on Facebook his ecological / leftist policies, his interference with Brazilian politics. It seems to me that this October many people are waking up and realizing that he acts like a bad shepherd to their sheep.
     
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  3. AED

    AED Powers

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    It is encouraging to hear this. The more "woke" we are the more prayer and intercession an d the more mobilized we become.
     
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  4. Frodo

    Frodo Archangels

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    Great find. Unbelievable that this is being promoted out in the open now at the Vatican. This completely destroys the arguments that these ceremonies are in line with our faith.

    Thanks for posting this.
     
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  5. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    There's nothing Christian about the ceremonies. The religion of the indigenous people is animist. They have incorporated into their religion a distortion of Christian beliefs learned from the early Jesuit and Franciscan missionaries. Jesuit Professor James Regan, based in a University in Peru, gives some examples in this interview: https://www.religiousstudiesproject.com/?powerpress_pinw=8590-podcast
    The quality of the recording is very poor but parts of it are clear enough to get the gist of what Prof. Regan saying. In case the above link to the podcast doesn't work, you will find it linked on this website: https://www.religiousstudiesproject.com/podcast/nature-alive-amazonian-religion-in-peru/ The sound is slightly better when the podcast is opened in a new window.

    A Synod convened purportedly to find new ways to Evangelise Indians in Amazonia is a front for pushing two agendas:

    (1) the UN's Agenda 2030 and getting all Catholic dioceses on board with their political aims

    (2) starting the beginning of the end to priestly celibacy, paving the way for women priests and lessening Vatican control over the liturgy.

    What's the point of ordaining either married men or women to the priesthood if the purpose isn't to do as Jesus instructed: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"? This mission to the indigenous people hasn't baptized anyone in over 50 years: https://www.periodistadigital.com/c...yudar-iglesia-limpiarse-noticia-689400013477/

    The UN has plenty of personnel and whatever political ideology Pope Francis believes in will have plenty of foot soldiers.

    The Church needs priests for the Great Commission entrusted to it by Jesus. All they have to do is teach the Gospel. Conversions are the Holy Spirit's department, and the Holy Spirit doesn't have a failure rate of no baptisms in over half a century. The chances of spending decades teaching any belief system with no conversions must be less and zero. This shortage of priests is a problem manufactured to fit a pre-planned solution. The solution is about to be announced to the Church by way of an Apostolic Exhortation claiming to be the result of the Holy Spirit inspiring the Synod's participants. The tragedy is that millions of Catholics will swallow it hook, line and sinker.
     
  6. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

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    Oct. 25, 2019
    Key Questions About Brazilian Politicians’ Synod Visit Remain Unanswered
    A Brazilian bishop claimed today that the left-wing representatives came to Rome merely to deliver a human rights report.
    Edward Pentin | http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edwa...ian-politicians-synod-visit-remain-unanswered

    VATICAN CITY — One of the synod fathers who last week controversially received a group of Brazilian deputies told reporters on Friday that the meeting arose because the politicians wanted to deliver a parliamentary report on human rights concerns of the Amazonian people, initiated by the Brazilian bishops.

    But the Register has learned that of the six deputies (five socialists and one communist) who came to Rome to present the report, only three were members of the parliamentary commission that wrote it.

    The Register has also confirmed that the politicians, who included radical pro-abortion politician Jandira Feghali of the Communist Party of Brazil, said that the Pan Amazon Ecclesial Network (REPAM) had invited them to come to Rome to deliver the document. REPAM has so far officially denied inviting them.

    Asked by Lifesite News journalist Diane Montagna if he could explain the Oct. 14 meeting, Bishop Evaristo Pascoal Spengler of Marajó, Brazil, started off by saying the bishops “did not speak with the Communist Party.”

    He then explained that earlier this year, the Brazilian bishops wrote a letter to the Brazilian parliament about human rights concerns of the indigenous people and deforestation by wildfires that began in January and are continuing.

    The parliamentary human rights commission then “organized a session on the synod,” he said, “convoking REPAM and some bishops.” Bishop Pascoal said he and others represented REPAM at that meeting and reported on the events in the Amazon.

    “We were told that this commission for human rights of the chamber was drafting a report on the rights of the Amazonian people, and they would give us a copy to read,” he said, especially as a “violation of human rights” of peoples in Amazonia was being considered. “These are the facts,” he said.

    The politicians who came to present the report in Rome were Labor Party members Hélder Salomão, Airton Faleiro, Nilto Tatto, members of the Socialist Party of Brazil, Bira do Pindaré and Camilo Capiberibe, as well as Feghali.

    The Register has learned that Feghali, Tatto and Faleiro are not members of the commission, prompting the question, why were they therefore invited?

    A further question is why REPAM invited only politicians of the political left when the commission also contains deputies across the political spectrum. And in particular, why was Feghali invited when her views are diametrically opposed to Church teaching, and she voted against a law prohibiting infanticide among indigenous people?

    Vatican officials said yesterday that the Oct. 14 meeting, which has been criticized as a politicization of the Amazon Synod and symptomatic of a politically leftist bias in the assembly, was a side event, running parallel to the synod, and therefore was not part of the synod itself.

    Synod spokesman Paolo Ruffini also said “nothing in the synod can be interpreted in a political manner.”

    But members of REPAM are clearly sensitive about the meeting, and questions about REPAM in general.

    After Montagna had asked her question, Vatican spokeswoman Cristiane Murray — who has been publicly identified as a co-founder of REPAM — told Bishop Pascoal: “You don’t have to answer questions about parallel events.”

    After Bishop Pascoal had given his answer, Murray gave an unprompted and unexpected explanation of the groups officially behind REPAM, saying it was founded in 2014 by CELAM, the Latin American Episcopal Council, along with the Brazilian bishops’ conference, the secretariat of Latin American religious, and Caritas.

    “This was just to clarify this aspect,” she said.

    ***

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    Oct. 25, 2019
    Synod Bishop Claims: ‘A Path Is Open for the Ordination of Women’
    Franciscan Bishop Evaristo Pascoal Spengler, who leads the territorial prelature of Marajó in Brazil, spoke at a news conference on Oct. 25.
    Ed Condon/CNA | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/synod-bishop-claims-a-path-is-open-for-the-ordination-of-women
     
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  7. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

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    Reminds me of "bishop against bishop"...

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    Oct. 26, 2019
    Archbishop Gaenswein: Claim Benedict XVI Opened Path for Women Deacons ‘Totally Absurd’ (y)
    The Pope Emeritus’ personal secretary firmly rejects Brazilian synod father’s claim that a 2009 papal decree paved the way for women deacons.
    Edward Pentin | http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edwa...at-benedict-xvi-opened-path-for-women-deacons

    Benedict XVI’s personal secretary has said a claim put forward yesterday by a Brazilian synod father that Benedict revised canon law in 2009 to allow the ordination of women deacons is “totally absurd and wrong.”

    Archbishop Georg Gänswein, prefect of the Pontifical Household, said he had not spoken to the Pope Emeritus about the matter and his comments to the Register “come only from me.”

    His remarks come after Bishop Evaristo Pascoal Spengler of Brazil told reporters yesterday that the synod had opened a path to the ordination of women deacons.

    “In 2009 the Pope [Benedict] made a change in canon law, according to which the bishop, the priest and the deacon receive their mission and the faculty to act in the name of Christ,” Bishop Spengler claimed.

    upload_2019-10-26_7-8-36.png
    “But this was changed by Pope Benedict, who changed this paragraph [which] said that, from that moment onward, deacons were no longer linked to Christ but able to serve the People of God in the diaconate in the Liturgy of the Word and in charity.”

    Claiming that because Benedict had de-linked the diaconate from Christ, Bishop Spengler said “we realize that there is a path that is open for the ordination of women.”

    Benedict's Motu Proprio

    The bishop was referring to Benedict’s 2009 motu proprio Omnium in Mentem, which revised Canons 1008 and 1009 of the Code of Canon Law, CNA's Ed Condon reported.

    The revision’s purpose was to incorporate more fully the teaching of the Second Vatican Council on the nature of the diaconate which Pope John Paul II had already updated in the Catechism.

    Benedict’s revision emphasized the distinction between diaconal and priestly ministry, that deacons do not act in the person of Christ through the celebration of Mass. But significantly, he left intact canonical wording which reflects the unity of the sacrament of orders for all three grades of deacon, priest and bishop.

    Bishop Juan Ignacio Arrieta Ochoa, secretary of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts, told CNA that Benedict made revisions to canon law to “better distinguish the ministry of priests and deacons” but that “nothing is said or mentioned regarding women.”

    Bishop Arrieta also mentioned Pope Francis’s commission on the female diaconate which has reached no definitive conclusion since it began in 2016. The Pope has said the matter will continue to be studied.

    In his comments yesterday, Bishop Spengler also referred to women deacons in the early Church, but in May the Pope said the deaconesses from that time cannot be understood as an equivalent to the modern sacramental notion of the diaconate.

    A 2002 Vatican study concluded that these deaconesses did not have the same functions as male deacons and had “no liturgical function,” nor a sacramental one. It also said that even in the fourth century “the way of life of deaconesses was very similar to that of nuns.”

    Synod Push for Female Diaconate

    Archbishop Gänswein’s comments come as a number of synod fathers have pushed for the ordination of women deacons in the Amazon, ostensibly to help bring the sacraments to remote areas.

    But such a change is also viewed by some synod fathers, such as Bishop Erwin Kräutler, emeritus of Xingu, Brazil, as a possible step to the ordination of women priests. Bishop Kräutler, a key figure behind the synod, has long advocated women priests as well as married clergy.

    Observers point out that the pathway to Anglican ordination of women as ‘priests’ began by first instituting a female ‘diaconate.’

    Pope St. John Paul II’s 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio sacerdotalis firmly ruled out the ordination of women. Pope Francis has also given a definitive “no” to the possibility.
     
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  8. AED

    AED Powers

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    It just never ends does it. It's like battering ram against the door of heaven. "Non serviam! Open up! We are winning." Well guess what. No you are not. God is winning. The Reign of the ImmCulate Heart awaits!!!!
     
  9. The "bad apples" infecting the rest?

    Participant says debate on ordination distracted synod from more important issues

    ROME - On the eve of the conclusion of the Oct. 6-27 Vatican summit on the Amazon, one of the participants said he regrets that too much of the discussion has been about ordaining married men to the priesthood and women to the diaconate.

    “Unfortunately, the insistence on the ordained ministries has taken some of the spotlight from other issues, which in my opinion, should have been developed further,” said Salesian Father Martin Lasarte from Uruguay, who was a special appointment by Pope Francis to the Synod of Bishops’ meeting.

    Lasarte spent 25 years as a missionary in Africa before being appointed as coordinator of Salesian missionaries for Latin America and Africa.

    “Undoubtedly, the issue of ministries is fundamental: The ministries of the laity, of the Church, service, subsidiary communities,” he said. “Some believe these go through ordination: We have to ordain the so-called viri probati and women deacons.”

    Several synod participants, speaking on background, have acknowledged that, despite their own personal opinions, Francis himself seems to be concerned about the clericalization of the laity, more than once asking participants to present different solutions.

    Respecting the confidentiality of the synod, Lasarte refused to confirm or deny this, instead saying the key issues of the synod are not ordained ministries, but evangelization and integral ecology.

    What follows are excerpts of Lasarte’s conversation with Crux, which took place Friday afternoon before the more than 300 synod participants received the meeting’s final document.

    Crux: What do you make of your first synod?

    Lasarte: For me, it was a very particular experience. After 25 years as a missionary in Africa, being in a synod, coming into contact with so many people with so many experiences, with the cardinals who have so many responsibilities and with the Holy Father, for me it is a great novelty.

    The experience is not over yet, as we don’t have the final document nor that last discussion. But I’ve learned a lot from many people during the general assemblies, from the experiences of pastors and lay people.

    I was particularly enriched by hearing about topics I knew little about, like drug trafficking - a monster that moves across the borders of the Amazon countries - which is truly a parallel power to that of the state because of its economic and political influence. And drug trafficking doesn’t only pollute the rivers, but also the souls of the young people of the Amazon, corrupting them.

    And sometimes, drug trafficking goes hand in hand with the trafficking of people, of adolescent girls. As a Salesian, we work with young people, so this affected me personally. But also, I found hope in many proposals already in place. The Archdiocese of Belém do Pará, for example, is doing a lot with prevention centers in each and every parish.

    We can’t fight that monster; we don’t have the strength as a church. But we can create awareness, protect young people, generate alternatives.

    I also learned a lot from the experience of traveling missionary groups and the concern of many pastors who seek, with the small means they have, to give a response for their territory.

    With the work of the synod, the instrumentum laboris was very enriching. In my opinion, the preparatory document was very well informed on the issue of integral ecology, but from the point of view of evangelization, it was very limited and poor.

    During the synod, the theme of evangelization was greatly enriched. So much so, that of the five parts of the final document, four are very clearly focused on evangelization, beginning with the centrality of Jesus Christ. We are missionary disciples and it is from there that our concerns come.

    Various specific topics, such as youth, which did not appear in the working document, became central. As did the challenge of ministering in cities, which was peripheral in the instrumentum laboris: How to promote youth or indigenous pastoral ministry in cities. Also, how do we help migrants - those who escape from neighboring countries, especially from Venezuela - is an issue that is present in the Amazon and to which we have to try to give an answer, not only humanitarian, but also pastoral.

    The issue of interculturality has also been touched upon as a respectful dialogue between cultures, one which doesn’t deny the Proclamation but learns from others, proposing an exchange of riches. Ours is the Gospel.

    How do you feel about the level of the discussions?

    Unfortunately, the insistence on the ordained ministries has taken some of the spotlight from other issues, which in my opinion, should have been developed further.

    Undoubtedly, the issue of ministries is fundamental: The ministries of the laity, of the Church, service, subsidiary communities. Some believe these go through ordination: We have to ordain the so-called viri probati and women deacons.

    And there was a bit of a controversy over the ordained ministries, because there was no agreement on these issues. But many of us believe that to create a leading, ministerial church, it is not necessary to start ordering everyone.

    It’s important to make the point stressed by Cardinal Owald Gracias from India, who said that the Church already contemplates many of these things, including the dispensation of celibacy in some particular situations, for example. It is not something strange to the Church.

    But stirring up so much dust with this issue of the ordained ministries has taken away from other larger issues, in which there has been a great consensus.

    cont'd below
     
  10. cont'd from above

    What are the great themes of the synod?

    In my view, they are the ones Pope Francis identified in 2017: An integral ecology, meaning the application of the [2015 encyclical] Laudato Si in the Amazon context, and the theme of evangelization.

    It seems to me that the discussion of integral ecology could have been much richer if we had spent more time on this. Much energy in the synod has been spent in an intra-ecclesial debate. It was the choice of the synod and we respect it, but this ecological dimension could have been more developed.

    There are those who say that ecology is not something the Church should be concerned about …

    Everything that is human is something the Catholic Church is concerned about. There is nothing, no problem in this world that escapes the Church. Christ became flesh, not a piece of meat. Christ became one of us, assuming our human nature, our reality. The Church has this challenge of caring for all aspects of the human person.

    The danger is when we close in and focus only on one aspect, or reduce ourselves to one aspect. A church that is only a social assistant, a humanitarian services manager or an environmentalist, is an incomplete one.


    Benedict XVI says a very beautiful thing in [2005 encyclical] Deus Caritas est. The theme of diakonia is not an appendix; it is constitutive, essential to the Church.

    Caring for victims of human trafficking, for the environment or promoting an ecology that defends the common good as an act of charity to our children and grandchildren are all elements of Christian ethics.

    The Church in all its dimensions is one concerned with the world, prayer, the sacraments, faith. These are all instruments, and the Church needs to play them harmoniously and in unison.

    Did the synod change your perspective on any subject or changed your mind about something?

    Undoubtedly, knowing more about the rawness of some realities made me a little more understanding. I am very critical of a church that is only social and forgets the importance of the Proclamation. But knowing some realities such as child prostitution, human trafficking or drug trafficking a little more in depth has made me more sensitive to issues of human rights and the promotion of the human person.

    There are places where the Church is the only one present and capable of raising a voice against these injustices, and we do so knowing that we put our lives at risk. To stand against drug trafficking is to risk your life. A lay person may think twice before doing so because they might have a family, a spouse, children. But a religious, if we have to give our lives, we give it.

    In certain situations, in the Amazon, the Church risks the lives of its members for defending human dignity.

    But in defending human dignity, we cannot forget the root of that dignity, which is Jesus Christ.

    Knowing these realities has enriched me, and also allowed me to better understand some radical expressions that, even though I may not agree with, I understand arise from emergencies, from incredible violations to that human dignity.

    Another beautiful thing has been to work in synodality. The Amazon has always worked in a very fragmented way, as if they were diverse worlds. Dioceses might have faced similar problems, but they have been solved in a very isolated way. The synod has allowed us to start thinking together.

    The synod itself, I believe, has put in evidence the reality of the Amazon and the problems in the region, but at a human and an ecclesial level.

    What do you think needs to be done, so that five or ten years from now, there’s a visible impact of the Synod of Bishops on the Amazon?

    At the level of CELAM (the organization of Latin American bishops’ conferences) or at a national level, it is important to create healthy coordination, perhaps create an ecclesial and human rights observatory. It would also be important to choose three or four priorities for the regional church to work on together, with a well-guided pastoral accompaniment process. It is essential that, at the CELAM level, practical paths can be marked out to accomplish this.

    For instance, can we have a less propaedeutic seminary with students having some years of indigenous formation, one that is attentive to the cultural wealth, enhancing the theological, spiritual and cultural wealth of these peoples, and so that future pastors grow up with an enormous love for their people, who have incredible riches to share with others?

    Universities can identify problems and give a more scientific contribution to the challenges of the communities, and from the theological point of view, there’s work to be done at a CELAM level to give pastoral answers.

    These are all elements of collaboration that can help apply the synod in concrete ways, so that things aren’t reduced to a discussion in Rome or a document parked in a drawer.


    https://cruxnow.com/amazon-synod/20...-distracted-synod-from-more-important-issues/
     
  11. MMM

    MMM Archangels

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    This is some load of gobbily goop.......The text, he (Cardinal Claudio Hummes) said, is set in the context of an urgent ecological crisis, which makes it necessary to act without delay. The preservation of the Amazon, he said, is fundamental for the health of the planet; and the Church recognizes this, conscious of the fact that an integral conversion for an integral ecology is necessary. He said the Church hears the cry of Amazonia, and the cry of the earth, which are the same cry, and also an expression of great hope.

    I remember when saving souls was the priority.
     
  12. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Since our hierarchy have abandoned the spiritual needs of the people in Latin America and throughout the world, the Church Triumphant is their and our only hope.

    The novena to St. Martin dePorres begins today.
    https://www.daily-prayers.org/novenas/saint-martin-de-porres/
    Background: St Martin was born in Lima, Peru. He was the illegitimate son of a nobleman and possibly an African slave. He grew up in poverty and devoted his life to the care of the poor and prayer. As a Lay Brother, he begged daily for alms to feed numerous poor. He received extraordinary gifts: light filling the room where he prayed, appearing in two locations at the same time, miraculous knowledge, instant cures and remarkable rapport with animals. His Feast Day is 3rd November.

    Prayer:
    Saint Martin de Porres, your concern and charity embraced not only your needy brethren but also the animals of the field. You were a splendid example of charity; we thank and praise you.

    [​IMG]
    Now from heaven above, hear the requests of your needy brethren:
    (Share your request…)

    By modelling our lives after yours and imitating your virtues, may we live content knowing that God has looked favourably upon us.

    Help us to accept our burdens with strength and courage in order to follow in the footsteps of our Lord and the Blessed Mother Mary.

    Guide us in our struggles to reach the Kingdom of Heaven, through the intercession of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

    Say: Our Father…, Hail Mary… (x3), Glory Be…

    … St Martin de Porres, Pray for Us …
     
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  13. Tanker

    Tanker Powers

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    I feel like this whole synod is a sham. I feel that way a lot these days about what the ruling classes and globalists and now the hierarchy of the Church say to us, the peasant, we know what's good for you. They stand up like very important people and pontificate what is good for us. We have a teenager telling us "how dare you" like a petulant child, waste away "MY" future. The hierarchy tweets and Instgram's and whatever else jabs at faithful Catholics like they don't understand how we cannot see how things should be run. We conservative naive people are just so uninformed and immoral and unloving. Please :sick:

    Ecological crisis my behind! What we have is a crisis of Faith and this synod proves it. The very shepherds leading us are devouring us.

    The Church hears the cry of the Earth.....really? How about the cry of the sheep you were tasked to protect? Do you hear their cries as they careen over the cliff into hell? This is such bs.

    These hippies have lost their minds. Just an opinion of an angry sheep but I will not follow these shepherds into hell. I will stand and fight them. Ugh!
     
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  14. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I didn't bother reading it. Since Jeffrey Sachs wrote Laudate Si, there's no reason to suppose that the Ford Foundation hasn't already written the Apostolic Exhortation which will be presented as the "fruit" of the Synod.

    That from the Salesian priest, one of the Pope's special appointees to the Synod, sums up the reason the Church is in crisis. He was referring to people trafficking, but his attitude is no different to the attitude of our hierarchy towards all things demonic. They have forgotten that with God all things are possible. They don't trust God probably because they don't believe in God. But they do trust the United Nations, Jeffrey Sachs, Paul Ehrlich and Emma Bonino.
     
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  15. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

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    upload_2019-10-26_14-14-23.png

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    If you click on this link it will take you to a short video of Edward Pentin asking Bishop Kautler if both the propositions of married priests and women deacons passed and his answer is yes, 140 and 150 respectively - more than two-thirds, https://twitter.com/EdwardPentin/status/1188145726779510785 .

    For some background on this bishop, I am posting a link to following article by Maike Hickson dated 10/22/19:

    Amazon Synod’s architect reveals how Pope Francis could ‘open a door’ to women’s ordination
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...rancis-could-open-a-door-to-womens-ordination
     
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  16. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Edward Pentin is a class act. The usual rat pack on Catholic social media who go all out to blacken the characters of everyone from Michael Voris to Raymond Arroyo tend to lay off Pentin probably because they don't want to be reminded of how, thanks to having a recording, he showed Cardinal Kasper to be a liar.
     
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  17. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

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    I am linking to where Jimmy Akin lays down without a doubt that it is an infallible teaching of the Catholic Church that women cannot be ordained. Read it today, because starting tomorrow he is going to start having to explain it away...

    http://jimmyakin.com/library/womens-ordination-its-infallible
     
  18. AED

    AED Powers

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    :p
     
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  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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