When the Novus Ordo was introduced, the lay people and even most of the clergy, did not have the benefit of the knowledge we now have about what truly took place in the formulation of the new mass. Today, we are horrified at the innovations coming out from the Vatican, but that's because we have the benefit of the internet to keep ourselves informed. So, what I'm asking is that, with hindsight, what would your response be?
Sg please ease up TMI Make haste to the TLM and please for pity’s sake stop with the repetition I might not be the only one growing weary of it all If you or anyone else on the forum feels strongly about this issue, you are entitled We have covered this ground so often I dread when you drag it out again Nothing personal Remember that
I don't have one source I was citing from, it is just from lots of internet reading and research. If you just google around on it a little bit you will find there are lots of them. Here is a sample article: http://dowym.com/voices/5-incredible-eucharistic-miracles-from-the-last-25-years/ The Sokolka one is particularly amazing. It was researched quite in depth by experts.
I have posted the link before to an article that details how Fr Malachi Martin was exonerated, but Here is the full article: A Reputation Recouped! The 'Fly on the Wall' is Freed at Last! Commentary by Michael Cain Editor, The Daily Catholic on Often referred to as "the fly on the wall" because of his amazing knack for getting to the bottom of things and forseeing the causes and effects of the inner sanctum of the Vatican well before they became evident, Father Malachi Martin has been vindicated! With the recent confession by his former Vicar General, the man who knew too much knew well of what he spoke and he spoke the truth as now confirmed by the very Superior General who had suppressed Martin for so many years during which he wrote the best sellers below on the inner workings of the Church. Malachi Martin Vindicated! "Thou art a priest forever according to the Order of Melchisedech" (Hebrews 5: 6). The author of the best-sellers, such as The Jesuits, Hostage to the Devil, The Vatican, The Keys of This Blood, The Final Conclave, and his final one Windswept House to name a few of his page-turning thrilling novels on the Church, has finally been exonerated. We have long identified the conspiracy against this much maligned giant of literature and William H. Kennedy's announcement of a release from Fr. Tom Widmer, S.J. at U.S. Jesuit Headquarters in Washington, D.C. announcing that former Vicar General of the Jesuits Father Vincent O'Keefe, S.J. has finally admitted that Fr. Malachi Brendan Martin was indeed granted a full and legal dispensation from his Jesuit vows except for chastity and given a perpetual celebret to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in private. Nearly five years after his death, his reputation, so maligned by vicious rumors, innuendos and slander, has been restored. Kennedy's article can be found at High Ranking Jesuit Confirms Malachi Martin’s Status as Life Long Priest. Wouldn't you think this acknowledgment would make news? To most it is treated only as a 'correction' reserved for the smallest agate type at the back page. But the offense and charges against him demands that his good name be restored and therefore we have placed this in our Hot Issues section with some additional background to supplement Kennedy's piece. Fr. Vincent O'Keefe, S.J., who aided and abetted the slander against Martin for nearly 40 years, has finally come clean and absolved the impugned prophet and insider whose factional works clearly outlined the Vatican II agenda well before it was made manifest. Often referred to by media pundits and ecclesiocrats as the "fly on the wall" because he knew where the bodies were buried, if you will, and what the next step would be when most were afraid of their own shadow, the slander followed Malachi to his grave. What convinced the former Vicar General O'Keefe to finally abandon the lie and fess up? Could it be another miracle from seeing 'The Passion of The Christ'? Why else, other than O'Keefe, now nearer death's door, has taken stock of his life and is determined to right the wrongs in reparation for his own sins? If only the entire Order, once so loyal to the Church and the Popes in the traditions and purpose established by St. Ignatius Loyola could be as open and penitent. Kennedy presented the official absolving by O'Keefe which must chafe many a Jesuit who so cherish bashing Fr. Martin for exposing the Society's sins in his books, and we go further in discovering who this man was. Yes, as we see in retrospect just over the past four plus years since his death, he was truly a prophet and truly a prophet is without honor in his own country. Yet, in this case let us hope and pray more will come forward in restitution of what destruction has been wrought by deceit and slander of Traditional priests who have also been accused by the very men who are far greater sinners. I might add that it is our hope and prayer that more will come forward in the same cleansing manner as O'Keefe and admit their cover-ups and deceit to the flocks, pardon men like Father Nicholas Gruner and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre who have been so maligned because they sought to be obedient to God first. That they would admit the Novus Ordo experiment has been a colossal bust, a failure of the magnanimous proportions and return to the Mass of Immemorial Tradition - the Latin Mass. That is our hope and prayer and why we publish this web site. Why do these men who collaborated to cover-up and empower the lies, wait until someone is dead to praise them and admit their own guilt? And who was this man so slandered? Martin was born on July 21, 1921 in County Kerry, Ireland and died of a fall on July 27, 1999 in New York City after suffering a stroke a few months before hand which greatly limited his activities. The cause of his death was a head injury. He was pronounced dead at Lenox Hill Hospital in Manhattan. He made many converts over his 78 years and many enemies as well. Outspoken as to the reforms of Vatican II and his own Society of Jesus Order - the Church's largest religious order - he chose to walk rather than compromising his principles. Throughout his life he was never one to compromise or accept change. Perhaps this dates back to his early, strict Irish upbringing, perhaps to other factors for not very much is known about his early life since he was very protective of his personal matters and now one can see why with the diatribe and conspiracy to discredit him. (continues...)
He attended Belvedere College in Dublin and at the age of 18 entered the Jesuit seminary. He received his bachelor's degree in Semitic languages and Oriental history and one in Assyriology from Trinity College, followed by Masters in Philosophy, Theology, Semitic Languages, Archeology and Oriental History obtained from the University of Louvain in Belgium and the University of Oxford as well as the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. On August 15, 1954 - the Solemnity of the Assumption of Mary - he became priest of the Society of Jesus. This vocation came after venturing into archeology in his earlier years where the lure of history and hieroglyphics of Old Testament times took him on a sojourn to Egypt in the fifties. As he lay on his back in the sand and dust studying the ancient scrawlings in various caverns and caves, searching for clues as to God' chosen people during their exile, the thought kept haunting him, "What am I doing lying in this cave." He realized this work was passive and he wanted to be active. It was a turning point in his life for his major goal, he finally figured out in his mind and heart, was to become "a priest to hear confessions, to say Mass, and to minister to people." After his ordination he returned to the Mid-East where he became somewhat of an expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls, publishing over twenty-five articles on Semitic Paleography and his first book The Scribal Character of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It was the first of sixteen he would publish. This text book - a research book - would be a far cry from the style that would evolve into the John Le Carre style he would exhibit in later books. In 1958 he was called to Rome where he would work for the next six years. It was here where he established a close relationship with Pope John XXIII and the Secretariat of State Cardinal Augustin Bea. Both charged Father Malachi with extremely sensitive missions of the highest priority and confidentiality. Many believe these missions give validity to his later novels are definitely, as we are finding out, not as fictional as some may have thought. Besides his clandestine mission for the Holy See, he also taught Hebrew, Aramaic, Paleography and Sacred Scripture at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. The ironic aspect of his a close friendship with John XXIII and Cardinal Bea was that the two latter principals were the major architects of the ecumenical council which Malachi would turn his back on in 1964. Some believe many of the reforms Father Martin had recommended did not involve the liturgy as much as other areas, mostly government within the Church. When the Church began adopting reforms and many things were introduced that Father Malachi knew were not from the Council Fathers, he became alarmed. But he had also subsequently been silenced by his superior. We find out now that the superior was Fr. O'Keefe who suppressed his own and contributed to the malaise by such actions, compounding it by not denying the rumors and vicious lies until just now. When the reform began to take place within his own Order, and pressure within to conform or else, Fr. Martin became disillusioned by the changes and the inordinate push for liberation theology which he truly despised. He met with Pope Paul VI and requested a release from his vows as a Jesuit priest in 1964. Paul VI gave him such a dispensation from the vows of poverty and obedience, but Martin remained loyal to his vow of chastity as a priest forever "according to the Order of Melchisedech." According to an account by Colin B. Donovan of EWTN, we find the quote, "Malachi Martin states, and the Holy See will confirm if asked, that 'In 1965, Mr. Martin received a dispensation from all privileges and obligations deriving from his vows as a Jesuit and from priestly ordination.' [Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, 25 June 1997, Prot. N. 04300/65]. Fr. Martin insisted to the day he died that he had always had the permission of the Pope to say the Mass in private. Although laicized priests are prohibited from performing the sacraments, except in certain cases provided for in Canon Law, there is no way to verify whether he had such an exception until O'Keefe fessed up this week. That truly is a Hot Issue and needs to be made widely known. As we have contested all along a man should be taken at his word unless there is evidence to the contrary. It reminds us of the verbal permission Pope Pius XII gave to the Servite Fathers to promulgate the book Poem of the Man-God which has been challenged, but then what area of the last Traditional Pope's pontificate hasn't been challenged by the modernists? As Donovan wrote years ago that "there is no way of knowing but if indeed Martin did receive permission from His Holiness, then he is in full accord with Holy Mother Church." We know now without a shadow of doubt that Fr. Martin was in full accord with Holy Mother Church, quite possibly only one of a handful that were, other than the priests and bishops of the Society of St. Pius X and the priests who have remained true to their perpetual celebret granted by Pope St. Pius V in Quo primum. After receiving his dispensation Martin relocated to Paris but decided a whole new scene was necessary and so, flew across the pond to New York where he would remain for the rest of his life. He set about dedicating his life to writing and supplemented his income with brief stints as a dishwasher and a cab driver, eventually becoming an American citizen. He had already published another book in 1964, entitled The Pilgrim under the pseudonym Michael Serafian on anti-Semitism backlash against the Vatican. Wouldn't Rabbi Schumely Boteach and Abe Foxman love that? In 1970 he got his first breakthrough with his book The Encounter which was the result of his expertise in the study of Judaism, Christianity and Islamism. Six years later he released the first of his best-sellers, Hostage of the Devilwhich dealt with possession and the exorcism of five Americans. The timing couldn't have been more perfect for the book was published shortly after the film 'The Exorcist' was released. Two years later The Final Conclave hit the best-seller's list and a sign of the type of books yet to come from Malachi Martin, now becoming a famous novelist nationally and internationally. In this book Martin claimed he wrote it to alert the world "of the Marxist influence in the Church that could affect the choice of the next Pope. I see these two great institutions in danger - the Roman Catholic Church and the United States. It was my duty as a Catholic and an American to reveal the secret negotiations now going on. Silence would have been the highest treason...There are 'moles' in the Vatican informing Moscow." We can see this is true from the Pact of Metz just prior to the opening of the Council to the open schmoozing of Mikael Gorbachev with the Vatican. What do you think Cardinal Mindzenty would say? Martin followed this with The Vatican in 1986 further delving on machinations within the sacred halls of this most august institution, always with a reverence for papal authority but showing how some curial members had gone bad. Speaking of bad, in 1987 he wrote an expose of his former order, called simply The Jesuitsin which he lamented how far the once proud religious order founded by Saint Ignatius of Loyola to uphold the faith and protect the Pope had sunk and how it had now become such a proponent of liberation theology and its emphasis on political change. It was an eye-opener to what the Society of Jesus had become and an alarming indication of what is happening in so many institutes of higher learning administered by Jesuits, chief among them Georgetown University which has shown a sharp turn to the left in the past few decades where it is no longer Catholic. With that novel he showed why he had cut all ties with the Order and rather than staying and being assigned to teaching or a parish, he embraced a new parish after 1964 - the Parish of Best Sellers and Talk Radio via Art Bell, a conservative talk show host who made Father Malachi Martin a frequent guest and which, to the testimony of many, effected countless conversions. Strange though it seems so did his novels which painted a picture of a Holy See under siege and sent many in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament remembering Christ's words in Matthew 16: 18, "...and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" and Matthew 28: 20, "...and behold I am with you all days, even unto the consummation of the world."
He released his final full novel, a thriller called Windswept House in 1996 which depicted the Church at the brink of the millennium and a slavic Pope. Very similar to Pope John Paul II except in name, Martin illustrated the struggle of Fatima vs. satan and how the anti-Christ stands ready to wrest control of the papacy amid international intrigue, the influence of nations in forming the New World Order and the Church's supposed role in all of this. Nearly five years after his death we can see the prophetic nature of his words. A recent article by James Harder appearing in Insight Magazine confirms this U.N. Faithful Eye Global Religion For Fr. Martin, Windswept House, which outsold all others, was to be his "last hurrah" for he died less than six months before the new millennium while working on his next book which promised to be the most controversial and detailed work ever, called Primacy: How the Institutional Roman Catholic Church became a Creature of the New World Order. Those who know said it was to be a book about the political scene in the Church today and a forecast of how papal power would have an impact on the world in the third millennium. Whether it will be published posthumously is yet to be determined for few know how far Martin got and who is qualified to complete such a complicated, intense novel that will carry with it the same impact he became famous for. This Irish American Catholic priest began as an Indiana Jones type of character in real life, evolved into an Ignatius of Loyola, Saint Francis Xavier type and became one of the great modern writers in the genre of Le Carre and John Grisham with the panache of Thomas Costain possessing an insight into the inner workings of the Church and world politics that no one else could convey. His imagination and grasp of real flesh-and-blood "fictional" characters in his novels not only prodded millions to spend hours page-turning, unable to put his novels down, but, much more importantly, tweaked the consciences of countless converts and Catholics who began to take their faith seriously as a result of many revelations revealed in his books. The scope of the impact of his novels? Only Heaven knows the true story. But now, thanks to the confession of Fr. Vincent O'Keefe, SJ, the world knows of Malachi's priestly perseverance and integrity. That will serve many well in making their peace with God for the atrocities against this talented man have greatly impugned his reputation and dignity over these past 40 years. At last vindication! Forgive them, Father Malachi, as we continue to pray for your soul as though it were in Purgatory. If you have reached the Church Triumphant, then intercede to the Almighty Beatific Vision that more will come forward and tell the truth. Truly the truth will set you free. Fr. O'Keefe is freer today because he freed Fr. Martin from the chains of slander and calumny. Deo gratias. Alleluia.
Heavenly Hosts, I am sorry that you feel so upset by the discussion. I am not trying to be arrogant. Only seeking the Truth.
Maybe it's the grammatical error in the language I used, but I wasn't saying that few of the masses in the USA are valid. What I meant to say is that I have been to several (not all) masses where I had doubt about the validity of the mass. This also happened in Zurich when I attended a mass said in English, celebrated by an American priest.
Here is another article dealing with the topic of this thread by Jimmy Akin. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...g-the-catechism-revision-on-the-death-penalty
Guys, seriously. I can understand, sorta, why this worries you, but the NO better be valid. That's all most of us got access to. I get that it's a thousand times easier to abuse the Liturgy with the NO, but to hint that it's not even valid, or may not be, kind of skirts too close to Sedevacantism for comfort, imo.
Once the NO isn't valid, then is the Church that recognizes the NO still the Church? It gets slippery, be careful. Here's what helps: 1) Sola Fide is a lie 2) John Paul II Those two reasons pretty much solve my doubts and problems. Theologically, the Reformation is a mess. And a Lie. Just is. It makes sense for Christ's Church to have One Head on earth, not many. Or none. The Papacy makes sense. Otherwise you get confusion. So what we're dealing with here is a broken Pope. Not a broken system, or a broken Church. Just a very, very, very wicked man. If you know better, do better. Pray. Pray the Rosary. Go to Mass. Receive the Sacraments. Make your heart into a little miniature of our Church. Hold what you know to be true in there. Bring these little treasures out when it gets dark, and they'll glow in the dark for you. Please don't give up.
The NO is valid because the words of Consecration are valid, giving us the Eucharist. We have been through this already on the forum. Links to Vatican documents and texts from learned orthodox Catholics were provided by various members. The NO is valid even if the celebrant is the world's worst sinner once he is a validly ordained priest and says the correct words of consecration. We don't need Eucharistic miracles to tell us that the NO is valid. The Magisterium of the Church says so, and good orthodox popes, including a Saint, have celebrated what is now the ordinary form of Holy Mass. I like going to Mass and understanding every word being said without a struggle but if we ever revert to the TLM being the norm, I'll be happy with that too. I went to a Church last week where the Mass was being celebrated in Polish. I didn't understand a word of it but I knew what was happening, especially at the Consecration. Plenty of reverence on display there, both by the celebrant and the people in the pews, most of whom were half the age of people I normally see at Mass. There's no guarantee that heterodox priests would follow the rules in Latin any more than in English. My own preference would be a return to the old format of the Mass except that it would be in the vernacular.
From the CCC: The Church's ultimate trial 675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
HH, all we can do is pray and do penance. Much prophecy has been telling us this and not to get caught up in the confusion. It exists and if all we to is 'play by play' we will meet a sort of spiritual depression. It will get much much worse and and at some point we won't be on-line with all the sensationalism going on, but in a very lonely world. It is the Agony in the garden phase of our journey. We see sin all around us. Jesus showed us it was through prayer, penance and suffering that brought forth the resurrection and it will be no different for us who hope to enter the era of peace.
