Muzhik, You are stating that an Apostolic Exhortation can not change church teaching, correct? http://communio.stblogs.org/index.php/2013/11/what-is-an-apostolic-exhortation/ BTW, I just want to know what the truth is. So far the pope is in error for creating confusion which is not good, we can see from how some priests are interpreting the AL but at this point it does not seem as though he can be formally declared a heretic. Do I have this correct?
Many, many faithful Catholics have expressed serious feelings of misgivings towards this pope from the moment he stepped out. You're not alone. http://www.steveskojec.com/2014/06/first-impressions-pope-francis/ First Impressions of Pope Francis? I’ve written about mine before, and I haven’t heard the end of it. Boniface at the blog Unam Sanctam Catholicam asks the question of his readers, sharing his own first impression: Then Jorge Bergoglio stepped out onto the loggia. Overwhelmed by the applause and the intensity of the moment, he just stared off the balcony with a thin, weak smile, sweat visibly rolling down his cheeks. He awkwardly waved and continued to stare as the commentators attempted to do some hasty research and explain who Jorge Bergoglio was. I consider myself a Catholic who is fairly well educated about the Church at large, but I had no idea who Bergoglio was. I had never heard of him and certainly did not recognize his face. He was a nobody to me. A complete blank slate. I had no opinions about the man for good or for ill. Yet, strangely, when I first saw the new pope, a terrible, ominous feeling came over me. A feeling of…well, not dread, but a deep, heavy and oppressing sense of trouble – foreboding. In fact, my stomach kind of sank and I felt sick. This reaction was a mystery to me then and continues to be so now; I was a college student in 2005 when Ratzinger was elected, and when Ratzinger walked out onto the loggia, I was filled with jubilation and joy – even a supernatural sense of filial devotion and piety which I noticed fill my heart when Benedict XVI was introduced. And at that time I knew very little about Ratzinger, either. Such a contrast between the two conclaves! I was again expecting 2013 to be a conclave of joy, like 2005 – but I was very disoriented and troubled when Pope Francis was announced. Everything just seemed…under shadow. I thought this was just my own private reaction, but over the past year I have heard countless stories of people sharing the same anecdotes. Common phrases to describe that moment are “ominous”, “foreboding”, “sinking feeling in my stomach”, “sick” and so on. I have been honestly shocked at how many people I have run across who explained feeling a similar sensation on the eve of the Holy Father’s election. It seems to be something of a phenomenon. I know feelings don’t necessarily mean anything, and I do not want to read more into this than what there is. But I am now curious, did you have a similar experience? How widespread was this premonition of foreboding among traditional Catholics? Since he’ll probably be attacked by the usual suspects, I encourage you to leave him a comment with your own impressions. Let’s make it clear that he’s not alone. There’s something to the dread that many people felt upon the pope’s first appearance on the loggia, of that I’m certain. Too many of us were surprised by the reaction for it to have been some pre-determined bias against a man we’d never heard of or even seen a picture of. Related Intuition, Infighting, and Our Divided HouseNovember 13, 2013In "Catholic Stuff" Syncretism at the Vatican: Giving Countenance to False ReligionJune 7, 2014In "Catholic Stuff" Announcing OnePeterFive: We've Got Problems. Let's Find Answers.July 24, 2014In "Catholic Stuff" Sent from my iPad
No, he seems to have a preternatural ability to walk that thin line so that he personally cannot be charged with formal heresy. He is a material heretic many times over however.
The first time I saw Pope Francis I was impressed and happy. In the following days I liked all of the little things they published about him like him paying his own hotel bill and using a smaller apartment to live in. I am a big lover of St. Francis and his "no compromising with the world" mentality. He did not want to give in to those who wanted to ease up on his rule. He lived a simple life of poverty. I thought how amazing it would be to have a Pope who lived in humility and as close to a simple life of poverty as possible. What a role model that would be. This was of course before I returned to the faith. I was deep in mortal sin for decades and had no moral compass.
Brian, Thank you for an honest answer. I'm getting more of the picture now and Muzhik filled in some missing blanks for me. Thank you, Muzhik. I recall reading at the end of the year that the cardinals would move forward with something else after the Advent season, what would that be? I honestly need to search for the article. I found another article which may help, I honestly don't know. http://www.mondayvatican.com/vatican/pope-francis-beyond-the-submerged-schism The AL is a document that was a result of a bishop's synod, not a pope's synod. This is still very difficult to figure out. I have wondered quite a bit about Pope Francis' statement that he may be blamed for a schism. I think everyone jumped to the assumption that he would want the blame placed on the "Four Cardinals" but maybe he is being pressured from others. IOW, is PF the ring leader or the scapegoat? How would we really know the answer to this question?
An Apostolic Exhortation is a teaching document, designed to explain current doctrine but not to expand it. It is NOT a doctrinal document, as was the declaration of Mary's Assumption into Heaven.
The video at the end of this article did not come through with your post and is very important. This is something that has been on my mind very much over the last few years. I am posting it because when the Jews were scattered to the wind by God they had not only allowed the worship of pagan beliefs but had taken and watered down their own faith with them. I pray for our church. I know that these articles are rumors but I can not help but believe that we are all on the precipice of dramatic trials each and every one of us.
I get the sense, Carol, that it is possible we are living in the era of the False Prophet. If we are, then many of the elect will be led astray. We don't know for sure. We know that the end times began with the incarnation, passion and resurrection of Jesus. There have been plenty of occasions in the history of the Church when Catholics must have considered they were living through the culmination of the end times. I have always considered Martin Luther to be a type of False Prophet. We now have members of the hierarchy who are more Lutheran than Catholic, promoting false teachings that even Luther would have balked at but ever since Judas Isacariot, there have been Judas types in the hierarchy. The difference nowadays is that they are no longer in the shadows but are emboldened and gathering plenty of support. I suppose that one of them could be the real deal False Prophet or perhaps one who is softening us up to be led astray by the final False Prophet who will prepare the way for the AC. Some Bible Alone Protestants have a tendency to claim that whenever they have a problem they open the bible at random and the very verse they needed to solve their problem jumps out at them. I'm very wary of such claims. I have been praying that God will send us the grace to know which path we should follow if there is a schism in the Church. Initially I prayed that He would send us a sign but, on reflection, we have all the signs we need so now I pray for the grace to recognise the right path. I made the same request to God before Mass today, and this was the Gospel reading: Mark 8:34-9:1 Jesus called the people and his disciples to him and said, ‘If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me. For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake, and for the sake of the gospel, will save it. What gain, then, is it for a man to win the whole world and ruin his life? And indeed what can a man offer in exchange for his life? For if anyone in this adulterous and sinful generation is ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.’ And he said to them, ‘I tell you solemnly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.’ While all of the hierarchy claim to be preaching the message of Jesus, some appear to be ashamed of the words of Jesus, for example when they decide that adultery is too harsh a word, using what they claim to be the more merciful language of "irregular unions" when they are really talking about adultery, fornication and sodomy. It's hard to figure out whether Pope Francis is the ring leader or a follower. We must be very careful about identifying someone, whether they be layman or Pope, as the False Prophet from the Bible. That doesn't mean that we are obliged to accept a teaching, whatever the source, that contradicts what has always been held to be true. Truth is not a grey area. The Holy Spirit doesn't do u-turns. A theology of 2+2 = 5 needs a whole lot of clarifying. Jesus leads nobody into sin. Any suggestion that any sin, even venial sin, is required by God to avert a more serious sin, is a false teaching. God gives us the grace to keep all the Commandments. One of the reasons I believe that we could be on the brink of the very end of the end times is that we all have access to the truth. The Bible, the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, Magisterial Decisions emanating from Church Synods and Councils and what the Church has always held to be true, are available to us irrespective of what diocese we live in. I don't believe that when Jesus prayed that we all would be one he meant that we would all agree to differ on fundamental truths and how those truths are put into practice. During previous schisms or heresies, an illiterate and sometimes ignorant faithful were led astray by learned Bishops. They trusted their shepherds. I trust that God made allowances for English Catholics who followed their shepherds into Anglicanism. We won't have that excuse when called to account for the decisions we make.
I am very new here, so bear with me I am careful in commenting on rumors. It is hard to truly know what is going on. The media is completely unreliable, at best. Catholic media, depending on which one, might have a better perspective, but they are still might be given over to opinion and extrapolation rather than facts. I know for me personally, I have been challenged by this pope. His ambiguity is extremely challenging. In some respects though, when I have not agreed with some of his statements I have taken it to prayer and in front of the Blessed Sacrament and it has opened up my views and more closely aligned them with the Gospels. I have grown more Catholic and less "rigid" to use a term PF likes to use. On more than one occasion, I have asked for clarity or taken my concerns to prayer and have been told "trust me". It's hard to discount that when sitting in front of Jesus. And yet, I still get a sick feeling when all of these stories come out. Do I not trust enough? Am I falling for lies or am I seeing the signs put in front of me? I think and doubt and drive myself crazy. I don't want to be led astray. Chaos and uncertainty are from the devil and order and clarity are from God. We are currently living in chaotic times. You can be certain we are being filled with deceptions from all around us. The world seems to be coming apart at the seams and our Church right along with it. So much discord. I read something yesterday that made sense and made me feel a tiny bit better. The pope has not changed doctrine because he can't. The Holy Spirit is not permitting it. Maybe the Lord is sanctifying His Church and maybe He is using this to do it. I don't know. I am but a small piece in the giant puzzle of mankind. Maybe my piece isn't supposed to know what is going on. Maybe I am just supposed to live my life and live the Gospels and work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I think clarity is needed. It is tragic that some bishops have run with one interpretation and others go with another. This is NOT good and this puts souls at risk. That's why I worry. But when I worry I keep getting the feeling that all will be ok. Sorry, guess I am long winded
Tanker, if you are confused by all of this don't worry. I don't think there is one person here who has everything figured out 100%. There are major troubles going on in the Church right now. In many ways this is a first in Church history. The only thing that can even be compared to it is the Arian Heresy. The doctrines of the Church will never be changed by anyone because they can't be. Even if the entire Church apostasized and only a few believers were left, it is those believers would hold the truth. St. Athanasius tells us that. Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ. -St. Athanasius There is today an end run being performed by people who are trying to change doctrine without actually putting it down in writing that that is what they are doing. The Church has never allowed anyone actively committing adultery with no intention to stop to receive Holy Communion. Truth doesn't change. This is a great test of the faithful. Stay true to Christ's teachings. If you are lost then pray the Rosary. One of the promises of the Rosary is that it will defeat heresies. So if you are worried if you are holding any non-Catholic beliefs right now it will help. Sister Lucy of Fatima said that the Rosary has been given extra power in these times. Take advantage of it. The Blessed Virgin Mary promised to Saint Dominic and to all who follow that "Whatever you ask in the Rosary will be granted." She left for all Christians Fifteen Promises to those who recite the Holy Rosary. Imparted to Saint Dominic and Blessed Alan Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies. The Rosary will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenititude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise. I shall deliver from Purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death. All who recite the Rosary are my sons and daughters, and brothers and sisters of my only Son Jesus Christ. Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
Thank you Praetorian. I actually pray the rosary daily and have Consecrated myself to Jesus through Mary. I have entrusted many things to Our Lady as I know she will steer me right. I get confused by everything I read. There is so much information out there. The information age is good and bad I guess. I don't trust our media, at all. I think so much is peddled as fact when it is just an opinion. I have actually read articles on what the pope said only to find out later, it is not what he said. However, the confusion continues. I don't see much clarity from many people, least of all the pope. He seems to put out his words and then sit back and watch the drama unfold. I am not particularly fond of this approach but maybe this is a Jesuit thing. I am not a theologian so I waver between truth and mercy. However, truth is unchangeable and that is where I will finally stay. I don't believe in misguided mercy. I am divorced and remarried. I wrote the longer version in another post but suffice it to say my husband and I went through the annulment process, got our decrees of nullity and then were convalidated. We are right with the Church. It never occurred to me to not follow the teachings and do what we had to do. Maybe I had a good role model though. My mother and father divorced in the 70's. My mom's pastor often came to the house and tried to get her to go through the annulment process. She refused always telling him that she had a valid marriage and that was that. She didn't divorce, my father divorced her. She lived the rest of her life living a single life. She never dated, she never remarried. I will not follow anyone off the cliff. But I do get confused sometimes as to how I should think. Am I being to rigid? Am I not being merciful? That is the constant battle when I read some of these things that are out there now.
Tanker, you mentioned you did these two things: "I actually pray the rosary daily and have Consecrated myself to Jesus through Mary. I have entrusted many things to Our Lady as I know she will steer me right." So you are on the right path. Our Lady will take care of you. It is wonderful your mother was such a role model for you. Unfortunately many people today don't have someone like that in their life. Just remember you do not have to have "everything" figured out. If you did God would have put you in charge Just keep an eye on what is going on, stick to the basics of the faith, don't promote error, pray and do penances. And please do your First Fridays and First Saturdays if you haven't already. That goes for anyone else out there too!!! And if you are a parent please have your children do them as well. If things get really bad soon we may not have the opportunity to do them.
I totally understand what you said, Tanker. I think we need to realize that Jesus is our Savior and we are the sheep of His pasture, and He will enlighten us. This is a valley of tears down here, and especially now, we have to wait sometimes for the fog and the smoke to clear, or else listen closely for that still small voice.....It's okay to wonder exactly what is going on, and it changes day to day. Keep doing what you are doing and it will be okay. The Lord and Blessed Mother will let us know what to do. I am glad that I can read the postings here about the situation in Holy Mother Church, but it is enough for me to stay with the Magisterium as I am not a theologian, and sometimes the postings here are too deep for me.....although I definitely know things aren't right. You are in the right place to be in a Church marriage and to be on this forum and to say the Rosary.
