The reverence due to priests (St Catherine of Siena)

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by andree, Jun 30, 2022.

  1. Frankly

    Frankly Archangels

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    Yes. Of Course. Thank you. Only the Guilty or Ignorant would stifle lips and minds when Discerned Sins - and/or multiple evidences of them exist..

    Just as our Lord Jesus did, we view and are mercifully called to respond to known actions and teachings of priests and teachers; when they're placed against the backdrop of Sacred Scriptures / Church Teachings

    Jesus publicly loudly called out ("ALAS!") Disobediences to Moses and therefore God right into the very faces of the leaders - of the "religion" that Jesus obediently followed.

    Jesus Before the Sanhedrin

    53 They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, the elders and the teachers of the law came together. 54 Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. There he sat with the guards and warmed himself at the fire.
    55 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. 56 Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.
    57 Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: 58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.’” 59 Yet even then their testimony did not agree.
    60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
    Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”
    62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
    63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”
    They all condemned him as worthy of death. 65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him.


    Jesus rebukes the Apostle Simon Cephas (Pope Peter)

    For saying to Jesus what today might be considered 'very small potatoes' - ...
    AND.. Ironically - This occurred immediately after The Rock/Peter was given the Keys to God's Kingdom!

    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

    Jesus Predicts His Death

    21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
    22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

    23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.

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  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    Seems his book is very well researched and has the backing of Dr Robert Moynihan, which is impressive.

    Murder in the 33rd Degree: The Gagnon Investigation into Vatican Freemasonry Paperback – 21 Mar. 2022

    by Fr. Charles Theodore Murr (Author), Enrique J. Aguilar (Illustrator)


    "As a young priest in Rome, Fr. Charles Murr worked closely with Cardinal Édouard Gagnon on the dangerous mission Paul VI had entrusted to that eminent figure: investigating the Vatican curia to uncover membership in Freemasonry. Fr. Murr’s intimate role made him acquainted with the unsavory agendas of high-ranking prelates and the intrigues surrounding the death of John Paul I and the election of John Paul II… Fr. Murr does not peddle conspiracy theories; he tells the riveting story as he lived through it and recorded it in his notes and diaries—what he saw and heard, what his friends learned and suffered. Most of all, we discover how a divinely-given opportunity for serious reform was tragically refused. Murder in the Thirty-Third Degree is the most impressive eyewitness account of postconciliar Vatican politics to appear in decades."
    —Dr. Peter A. Kwasniewski: PROFESSOR, COMPOSER, AUTHOR, THE EXTASY OF LOVE IN THOMAS AQUINAS

    “Three cheers for Monsignor Murr! He has written a riveting book which will immediately become a precious historical document for the recent, often perplexing history of the Church since the Second Vatican Council. It contains a very precious and important eyewitness account of events in Rome in the 1970’s connected with the investigation of the Roman Curia which Pope Paul VI asked Canadian Cardinal Edouard Gagnon to undertake… Murr, a friend of Gagnon, has given us a unique first-person memoir which sheds new light on the mysterious death of Pope John Paul I in 1978 and on Gagnon’s relations with three Popes. In the end, after 50 years, Murr calls for the release of Gagnon’s secret report, which lies hidden in some Vatican archive… I applaud Murr for his courage."
    —DR. ROBERT MOYNIHAN: EDITOR-IN-CHIEF INSIDE-THE-VATICAN AUTHOR, FINDING VIGANO

    “Murder In The Thirty-Third Degree is a powerful insider narrative about subversion of the Church at the highest levels under three Popes. The Vatican needs to make Cardinal Gagnon’s dossier public so that the reform of the Curia can begin in earnest.”
    —DR. E. MICHAEL JONES: EDITOR-IN-CHIEF CULTURE WARS, AUTHOR, LOGOS RISING; A HISTORY OF ULTIMATE REALITY

    "...Important historical developments are intertwined with the individual dramas of the characters portrayed herein, alongside Vatican politics and intrigue… Murr has done the Church a great service by telling Gagnon’s story.”
    —KEVIN SYMONDS: LECTURER, AUTHOR, REFRACTIONS OF LIGHT

    “Fr. Murr provides a first-hand account of the work the remarkable Cardinal Gagnon did, at the bidding of Pope Paul VI, to expose the presence of Masons in the Roman Curia.” —DR. JANET E. SMITH: PROFESSOR, PHILOSOPHER, AUTHOR, THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY
     
  3. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    I just couldn't resist it - after hearing Father Murr speak I purchased the book.
     
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    I watched the video awhile back. I wanted to hear more from Fr Murr.
    I don’t have any doubts at all about him or his experience.
     
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  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I might buy it. I will have to pray about it. It's all so awful, it would make you think about throwing yourself out a window.
     
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I will give you a good example of a bad reverence towards Clergy that I heard about recently and which I believe was gravely sinful. Someone made a remark about a Seminarian that he was, 'Strange' and that other people thought he was, 'Strange' too.

    That poor young Seminarian. It could mean anything from him being an Alien from Outer Space to him being a Vampire and one of the undead, to something horrible to do with sex.

    Anyway , as they say, you might as well hang a dog as give it a bad name. Things like this are terrible, it comes from hanging about outside the Church gossiping all day.. This is the kind of thing St Catherine was talking about.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    It is awful but I think the evidence will be much more detailed in this book since Murr has personal insights that few others possess.

    I did not buy Taylor Marshall's book Infiltration as he often lacks specific evidence and has a tendency towards superficial treatment of material - I am not a fan of his style.

    Whereas Murr's academic credentials are impressive:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_T._Murr
     
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  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    If God grants me the courage I will read it. But it all makes me feel so heart sick . Like someone has driven a stake through my heart.

    I don't deny that it is so, that our Holy Mother the Church has been totally betrayed by Judas's in the very highest places. But it is so terrible.

    The Father is a good priest, I can see this. I also did not trust Dr. Taylor Marshall's book. But I do trust this priest, he is clearly granted great insight in graces in this matter. He is good and holy and has been granted special graces from God in this matter.

    I may read the book, but may God grant me the courage to do so.

    It is all just so awful.

    The hell that these demons in human form will be sent to does not even bear thinking about for a second.

    Imagine a Bishop, a Cardinal or a Pope in Hell.

    It would cause your heart to stop in fear at their Eternal Destiny.
     
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  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I am reminded of the Scripture, especially on the 4th of July that God did not grant us the Spirit of Slaves but of that of Freedom.

    Of being able to speak the Truth Freely with heads held high, of not being afraid.

    John 8:36

    The Truth will Set You Free
    …35A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you.…


    [​IMG]

     
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  10. andree

    andree Powers

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    I found the full text of this doctor of the Church online here for anyone who would like to meditate on it further:
    https://issuu.com/dirkjan2/docs/catherine_of_siena_-_dialog_between

    It starts in chapter CXVI or page page 245 in the book which is headlined: "How God considers persecution directed against the Holy Church or Her ministers as directed against Himself; and how this sin is graver than any other."
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    The Greatest Persecution of Our Holy Mother the Church being of course the evil of silence from her children who should speak out but do not do so out of a false sense of reverence..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    'The World is made rotten because of silence'

    St Catherine of Sienna.


    upload_2022-7-4_15-33-30.jpeg
     
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  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I am old now.

    In my own experience of life it is far, far, far more easy to remain quiet in the face of evil than to speak out.

    Always the easiest thing to do has been to remain silent.

    Jesus would never ever have been nailed to the Cross if He had remained silent.

    Just so with the saints who all walked the same path.

    Always choose the harder path.

    Always , in the face of evil.

    Choose to speak.


    “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless.
    Not to speak is to speak.
    Not to act is to act.”


    ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
     
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  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    St Catherine of Sienna never meant for us to remain silent in the face of the great evil that has overtaken Our Holy Mother the Church.

    She spent her whole life fighting against this evil.

    To suggest otherwise is an obscenity against her Holy Memory. A gross distortion of the truth she taught. She spent her whole life fighting against evil in the very highest places in the Church and speaking out against it.

    Her fight against this evil is how she died in Rome. She died as a Victim Soul.

    She spent her entire life speaking out against evil in the Church.
     
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  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    upload_2022-7-4_15-52-24.jpeg
     
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  17. Lois

    Lois Guest

    Many times I tried to read "Windswept House" by Fr. M. Martin. I could never get past the first few pages because of the evil described, and the fact that it was "fiction".

    Father Murr's book is a different read altogether. The evil machinations come out in his telling of his actual experience, but at the same time there's a feeling of hope at the end. That was my take away, for what it's worth. I also read Dr. Marshall's book not very long ago, but it was like the wind - here and gone. Fr. Murr's telling of his times left a feeling of hope. I'm not able to describe this very well...
     
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  18. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Sigh.

    God grant me the courage to read it.

    He is a fine priest I can see that.

    It's just all too awful.
     
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  19. AED

    AED Powers

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    Didn't BXVI say that worst persecution right now was coming from within the Church herself. I believe he said while still pope.
     
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  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    You know I have a particular love as a man for women. Especially the Blessed Virgin.

    I must say though one thing I always loved and that is strong women. Strong women saints.

    One thing they all had in common, these strong holy women was that no one could ever shut them up.

    They just went ahead and said things.

    Did things.

    Were things.

    I was never much of a one for admiring people for keeping quiet.

    St Joan of Arc was a good example of a strong woman who spoke out.

     
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