The Mass It Is A Changin'

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Praetorian, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

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    I read somewhere, years ago, that Jesus said (to some saint/visionary - not sure now) that, 'If you find yourself unable to sleep, come in your heart to the nearest tabernacle and keep me company until you sleep'. I have often done so and wondered if I am alone before Him. Sounds very selfish but I can't help hoping that I am. When I stand before Him, I can say, 'Remember, Lord how I came to visit you sometimes when you were alone in the tabernacle? And (hopefully) much will be forgiven.
     
  2. Henri

    Henri Angels

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    I tell you this in all sincerity. I left my country for a foreign land when I was 19 because I took to heart The Virgin message to amend my life at Garabandal, and the only lesson that I have learned is that it would be easier for me to pull the sword of St. Galgano from the stone in Tuscany, Italy than it would be for me to amend my life and live her messages.
     
  3. Byron

    Byron Powers

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    Nobody promised it was going to be easy.
     
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    We can only do it with the graces from God.
     
  5. Sam

    Sam Powers

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    Everything is grace, we are nothing on our own. Lately Luke chapter 14 v 27 has been on my heart.

    Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
    It is followed by

    Which of you wishing to construct a tower does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if there is enough for its completion?


    That's been very sobering for me lately. I must sit down and see if I am willing to pay the cost of following through to completion. I must compete well, finish the race, and keep the faith. Otherwise I cannot say I am a Christian and I am a liar. May we all persevere with the grace of God to the end.
     
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  6. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" ADMIN Staff Member

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    Take comfort in the words of St Francis..

    As he was dying, Francis told his friars, “Let us begin, for up to now we have done nothing.” He knew that we must always keep trying and persevere in our spiritual life.(y)
     
  7. Henri

    Henri Angels

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    This reminds me of the time I stood before a very tall mountain, the atmosphere was very dramatic, I looked up and with my best Charleston Heston voice and said, "I'll meet your God", then when I got up to the top of the mountain I looked out to a sea of endless mountains.
     
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  8. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" ADMIN Staff Member

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    Moutains are my favourite place its where I find God "His hiding place" your in good company Henri definitely not alone..I must see if I can find the little story I wrote a while back.
     
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  9. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" ADMIN Staff Member

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    wow found it I wrote this way back when I joined the Forum in 2013 I suppose I should now have the courage to say that I am the father in the story and the children are mine :)

    Mt. Krizevac
    Medjugore

    This is a true little story of a father and two of his children…

    A father and two of his young children a girl aged 9 and a boy of 10 went to climb Mount Krizevac one day. On the foot of the mountain, the father sat down and started to remove his shoes as he wanted to climb in his bare feet as a penance, as he sat down the children also sat down and started to remove their shoes, ,”you don’t have to take your shoes off” he said to the children the little boy replied “why not” the father explained to them in a simple way why he was doing it and because he thought their minds were too young to understand penance, he told them that he was doing it to copy Jesus as the mountain reminded him of the walk that Jesus took to Calvary and that Jesus suffered very much in that walk, so by him taking his shoes off and feeling a little pain, climbing the mountain that he in some way might ease the suffering of Jesus. The children listened as he talked and continued to take their shoes off “well said the young boy I would like to do that too, me too said the little girl “ the father said “ok well if your feet get too sore you can always put your shoes back on Jesus will understand”..
    So off they set walking and praying, coming to the first station the father explained to the children the meaning of the station and the prayers associated with it .they continued on up the mountain stopping and praying at each of the stations, half way up the mountain the fathers feet were getting sore as his toes seemed to be getting stubbed on every rock, are you ok he said to the children, were fine daddy they replied but it is hard, feeling that he should encourage them he was prompted to start telling them a story as they climbed, well children he said life can be sore you see if we look at this mountain as we climb we can imagine that the mountain is our life, so when we first set off we had a choice we could have kept our shoes on and climbed comfortably but we didn’t, we decided to start our journey with Jesus, now in doing so we made the right decision but we also knew that by following Jesus it would not be easy ,”why is it not easy asked the little girl” well love he said in this life of ours there are people who don’t believe that Jesus is real, so as we walk with him sometimes they will make fun of you, but don’t be afraid of that because Jesus will always be at your side to give you strength..So on they went the father was really feeling the pain now and had to stop, so looking for somewhere to rest his feet he spotted a little flat piece of soil and rested his sore and bruised toes, sit down a while he said to the children, as they sat he said well children we can also look at this part of our journey as a stopping point, you see as we climbed we had big stones and sharp stones to get over, we could look at them as being life’s hurdles they were hard to get over but get over them we did, a bit like your school work or fights with your friends, if we walk with Jesus he helps us over every big stone and if you look down now you will see that after every stone Jesus has given us a nice soft landing to rest.
    Now we have a decision as you get older you too will have many decisions, do we turn back down the mountain and give up or do we rest with Jesus for a while and continue to walk with him.”I think we should keep going the children agreed we don’t want to let Jesus down they said”. The father was proud of their reply and very inspired, well he said with a smile this is the part of the mountain of life when your poor father has got old and tired, Jesus is asking you to help your father get to the top, the boy reached his hand out and said do you want your shoes. The father laughed and said not yet, as they approached the top of the mountain the little girl got very excited, "I can see the top daddy" yes said the father we are nearly there but listen this is the part of your life when you can see the end and you are so close, you must not get too excited because if you look around you it’s very very high and if you do not keep looking at Jesus and get distracted you might easily fall..

    They reached the top of the mountain and sat by the Cross, well children we did it “yes we did didn’t we daddy they said” yes he said you have reached your goal...The little girl looked at him a bit confused “what do you mean daddy”, well said the father you see I have been trying to tell you the mountain was your life the climb all the challenges that you will have to overcome and now finally you have reached the cross, the cross is where Jesus died for you so that you can enter heaven so when you walk in your life no matter how hard it be if you keep focused on Jesus he will always lead you to heaven, he put his hands on their little faces and said never lose sight of your goal…

    https://motheofgod.com/threads/the-mountain-of-life.4549/
     
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  10. AED

    AED Powers

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    John this takes my breath away. This the most wonderful experience with your children! Its words are powerful to me! I've climbed Kriezevac. I know how stony and treacherous it can be. That your children wanted to do it with you reminds me children are very capable of penance--like the children of Fatima. Thank you so much for posting this.
     
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  11. Agnes McAllister

    Agnes McAllister Archangels

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    I will pray for you henri. I understand your frustration.
     
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  12. PNF

    PNF Archangels

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    Henri, if you have not already done so, can I suggest that you experiment by going to the Tridentine Mass exclusively for a period of time. Also, see if you can set up a time to do a general confession with a priest who says the Tridentine Mass exclusively. Again, look at it as an "experiment." If you don't see changes in your life after doing those things for a few months, then I don't know what to tell you to do other than to make sure that your Baptism was valid. Without the Sacraments, we will not persevere. And valid Baptism is the gateway to all of the other Sacraments.

    Remember that we are told to "flee" the FALSE CHURCH (the "harlot"), not TRUE CHURCH, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. You need to pray and discern the difference between the two. Listen to Ven. Fulton Sheen's description:

     
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  13. Henri

    Henri Angels

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    okay i will,
     
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  14. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" ADMIN Staff Member

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    Sorry I don't want to hijack this thread but I'm lost by this..could you maybe explain exactly what you mean, I ask in earnest and total humbleness, so please keep your reply simple and to the exact point your making.
    God Bless John.
     
  15. PNF

    PNF Archangels

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    Hi John. Just to provide context. I was addressing Henri's "home alone" solution. My alternative solution was to explain that only by receiving the Sacraments will we have the strength to persevere in the authentic Faith through the eschatological persecution. The Sacraments are ordinarily available only through validly-ordained priests using the valid rites approved by the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church. So a "home alone" solution to the problem of the crisis in the Church is extremely risky according to perennial Church teaching. Yes, extra-Sacramental graces are possible, but it would be presumptuous to depend on them when the Sacraments are available.

    My response assumed that Henri was a baptized Catholic. However, there have been a few high profile cases within the last few years of priests who were not validly baptizing their flocks. In fact, two of my children were "baptized" using an illicit form. When we made our bishop aware of this, he suggested that we have those two children conditionally baptized. He also sent a question to the Vatican asking for an official opinion on whether or not the illicit baptismal form invalidated the baptisms or not. So, because the Sacrament of Baptism is so important, one must never take chances if there is a "positive doubt." This is why I mentioned looking into his Baptism, if all else fails.

    My suggestion about Henri receiving the Sacraments from the traditional Roman Rite, was to see if that would bring the fruit he did not seem to be getting from the Novus Ordo. I suggested that he "experiment" to see if the older rite made any difference for him. It did make a difference for me.

    Finally, in telling Henri that we must "flee" the FALSE CHURCH, I am referring to the phenomenon discussed by Ven. Sheen (the "Counter-Church") and Benedict XVI (the post-Vatican II Catholic Church interpreted through the lens of "the hermeneutic of rupture"). This "false Church" claims to be the true one, but it is a counterfeit, as Benedict XVI explained in 2005 (https://www.vatican.va/content/bene...ents/hf_ben_xvi_spe_20051222_roman-curia.html). A counterfeit is an intended deception by those who try to pass it. And a counterfeit is always subtle, not obvious to most people. A methodology must be employed to recognize the counterfeit. This critical methodology is "the hermeneutic of continuity" recommended by Pope Benedict XVI.

    Regarding the issue of "fleeing" what is false, I believe there are two places in the Bible, Our Lord commands us to "flee" from this false entity:

    Matthew 24 says:
    15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand. 16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:​

    Apocalypse 18 says:
    2...Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen: and is become the habitation of devils and the hold of every unclean spirit and the hold of every unclean and hateful bird: 3 Because all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication: and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her; And the merchants of the earth have been made rich by the power of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sins and that you receive not of her plagues.
    So putting all of it together, I was suggesting to Henri that properly receiving the Sacraments would likely give him the discernment to recognize "the False Church" (i.e., the false teaching and teachers) and see definitively the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (i.e., the true teaching and teachers). By doing that, when the time comes to "flee," he will flee what is false and take refuge in what is true. That way, he will not be "deceived" as St. Paul warns us about in 2 Thessalonians 2 and as does the CCC in sections 675 an 676.

    I apologize for the length, but I wasn't sure exactly which part of my post you wanted me to expand upon. Hopefully, I haven't muddied things up even more. Blessings to you as well, John.
     
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  16. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" ADMIN Staff Member

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    Thanks for your reply I'll need some time and energy to try and digest that and I think I might see where your coming from.
    However with all the talk of running and fleeing for now I'll stay where I am and maybe bolt the church doors whilst I hold my sheild inscribed "Quis ut Deus"
    (y)

    Here Must Appear
    the Constancy of the Saints

    "Today, look to me, your heavenly Mother, in the splendor of my glorified body assumed, with my soul, into the glory of paradise.

    I am the Woman Clothed with the Sun.

    I am your heavenly Leader.

    I am the Queen of all the saints.

    Look to me as a sign of sure hope and of consolation, in these times of the purification, of the apostasy and of the great tribulation. The times of the struggle and the greatest conquest on the part of the Dragon, of the beast which comes up from the earth and of the beast which comes up from the sea have come.

    These are therefore the times when a civilization without God is being constructed and all humanity is being led to live without Him.

    These are the times when Satan and the diabolic forces are making themselves adored by an ever increasing number of men, and thus the spread of the satanic cult, of the sects and of the black masses is becoming vaster.

    These are the times when an idol is being built to be put in the place of the true God and of the true Church, and this idol is a false christ and a false church.

    These are the times when all those who will follow this idol will be signed with its mark on the forehead and on the hand.

    These are the times when the faithful followers of the Lamb will be subjected to marginalization, to persecutions, to prison and to death.

    These are therefore the times of your constancy.

    Here must appear the constancy of the saints.

    Here must appear the constancy of those who belong to the Lord, who put into practice the commandments of God and who remain faithful to Jesus.

    Here must appear the constancy of those who will be persecuted and led to martyrdom, because blessed are they who die in the Lord, who find rest from their labors, and the good that they have done accompanies them.

    Here must appear the constancy of those who do not adore the beast and who will not allow themselves to be signed with his diabolical mark. Those, on the other hand who will adore the beast and its statue and will receive its mark on the forehead and on the hand, will drink the wine of the wrath of God, poured out from the chalice of his terrible chastisement and will be tortured, in the presence of the Lamb and of the holy angels, with fire and sulfur.

    Here must appear the constancy of those who bear, written upon their foreheads, the name of the Lamb and the name of his Father, because they have not betrayed their God, there has never been a lie in their speech, and they follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

    Here must appear the constancy of all my little children, whom I am calling to consecrate themselves to my Immaculate Heart, to live out with me the conclusive moments of the battle and of the fall of Babylon, when the vintage of the earth will be harvested, and the grapes will be cast into the wine press, which represents the great chastisement of God.

    For this reason I invite you all today to look to me, your heavenly Mother, in the splendor of my glorified body, that my light may illumine you, my Immaculate Heart enfold you, and my motherly love support you to be, in these times, courageous witnesses of constancy before the Church and before all humanity."
     
  17. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    Yes, Sam, as Paul reminds us:

    Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022
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  18. PNF

    PNF Archangels

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    John, we don't disagree at all on that MMP quote. With regard to the topic of "fleeing," I refer you also to this thread:

    https://motheofgod.com/threads/ratz...-an-interpretive-key-for-the-end-times.18809/

    The Tyconican concept of discessio was analyzed by Fr. Joseph Ratzinger about which he said:

    “[T]he Antichrist belongs to the Church, grows in it and with it until the great discessio, which initiates the final revelatio.”
    – Joseph Ratzinger, Observations on Tyconius’ Concept of the Church, 1956
    This discessio is what is meant by "fleeing." It is the process of "the faithful remnant" separating itself from those who claim to be Catholic but are not because they are heretics and have already separated themselves from the Mystical Body of Christ by their promotion of a false doctrine ("the false brethren"). It is summed up in the concept of "they have the buildings, but we have the faith."
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022
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  19. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    John,

    I tend to believe the above is an MMP extract. When I first encountered them, I thought the climax for these times in which we live was still a ways off, but no longer. With the TLM constituency experiencing a kind of repression which is obvious and direct, pride is tempting. We who labor on in the Novus Ordo must be leery of the enemy within, lukewarmness. In northeast USA, the falling away of Catholics is obvious just by looking at the statistics. In the retiree southern states of the USA it's a different story in regard to numbers, but orthodoxy is still a battle. As Our Precious Mother states above: Here must appear the constancy of all my little children!

    You experienced pain and discomfort in your family climb up Krizevac, but it is a memory for your family to uphold! As the saying goes, "No pain, no gain!" We have a lot more pain these days. The Letter to the Hebrews is akin to Paul's admonition to the Galatians. There must be no retreat, no accommodation with the world. In that day it was tempting to return to their Jewish roots because the Jews in mid-1st century were not being persecuted. So today, the world accepts a water-downed Catholicism, "Be nice, and you all will reach heaven. Just don't preach truth 'cause the demon within us won't tolerate it!" The Liar prowls about freely.

    I truly believe First Peter is a decisive epistle for our day. Let us read it, study it, and pray it. As Peter writes in the first chapter:

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and to an inheritance which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God’s power are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while you may have to suffer various trials, 7 so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 Without having seen him you love him; though you do not now see him you believe in him and rejoice with unutterable and exalted joy. 9 As the outcome of your faith you obtain the salvation of your souls.

    And in Chapter 5:

    6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you. 7 Cast all your anxieties on him, for he cares about you. 8 Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, establish, and strengthen you. 11 To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    The quote from Joseph Ratzinger is his own observation based on a schismatic, Tyconius.
    It’s not cast in concrete as you seem to think.
    Who is the author of that article? We seem to be going around Robin Hood’s barn with that. Suppose we don’t accept that? My personal feeling is to run away from articles that have an anonymous author dealing with matters in the Church. Why is the author hiding? Why are we being linked back to that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022

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