No One Can Change The Truth

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Oct 10, 2023.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    We show Greatest Love when we gift people with the Truth, without Truth Love is a lie, and Mercy without Justice is Presumption.

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2023
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  2. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

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    From one of my favorite saints.

    IMG_1965.jpeg
     
  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Which is why the Devil can never tell the Truth and is the Father of all lies. Because he has never, ever loved.

    Most men spend their entire lives running from the Truth. We do them no favours of Mercy when we hide it from them or dress it up as something else in a Falsehood.

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2023
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  4. I tread on dangerous ground when I approach that territory which is reserved for true teachers of The Faith. Scripture tells us that teachers will be judged more keenly. While I rush to retreat from that land I am still reminded of a greater love:
    “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”
     
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  5. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

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    A priest recently told me in confession that I shouldn't worry about anything as God would look after his church. I said yes but will we be still part of the church.
    When people say that I find it so annoying. That's how bishops & priests justify standing up for nothing. Remember the lampstand was removed from Ephesus
     
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  6. AED

    AED Powers

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    Yes. I am so grateful to Our Lady. I truly believe she will be our light in the darkness " when all other lights go out"(Galadriel in LOTR)
     
  7. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    It is a conundrum. It's very annoying to hear people talk about God's laws as though they were a human invention meant to make life hard for the faithful. The use what Jesus said about the Sabbath to undermine the Commandments. We know that God will protect the Church and can bring good from any mess made by man. But there's no guarantee that God will give us an easy ride while he sorts us out.

    When I think about all the attempts at reunification with the Orthodox, I wonder what previous Popes had in mind to address the differences in matters as fundamental as contraception and divorce. How do we know that those Popes wouldn't have tolerated being in Union with churches that permit divorce? Is what Pope Francis has done since Amoris Laetitia all that different from being in Union with Orthodox dioceses where the faithful can have up to 4 divorces? Maybe Francis is implementing now what previous Popes expected to be implemented some time in the future. I don't know. It seems to me that reunion with the Orthodox would result in divorced and remarried Catholics simply switching to the Orthodox and remaining in Communion with the Pope, yet there's no evidence that previous Popes made it a condition of reunion that the Orthodox should return to outlawing divorce and remarriage.
     
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    That’s why there has been no unification.
    The Orthodox don’t accept the Pope. I keep saying that.
     
  9. AED

    AED Powers

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    I don't think recent previous popes would consider altering the words of Christ to accommodate divorce for Orthodox unity. St Paul warned against tampering with scripture. "Let him be anathema." Strong warning. Maybe I am naive but to me it can't be forced. " If God doesn't build the house in vain do the builders labor."
     
  10. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    The dispute over the primacy didn't happen in a vacuum. There were outside influences then as there are now. And a lot has happened since the Great Schism. There are Councils that the Orthodox don't accept, and probably other issues. The dispute over the filioque might be easier to settle because the real difference is probably just a matter of wording. I suspect that Pope Francis thinks the primacy issue could be sorted by decentralisation, giving individual Bishops, or maybe national Synods, more sway.

    In all honesty, I shouldn't be talking as though I know a lot about it because I don't. I'm just trying to figure out what is the Pope's real goal. It's looking more like decentralisation is the goal. The more liberal Bishops will use that to implement their anti-family agenda and double down on their attempts to change Church doctrine.
     
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  11. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    They wouldn't have altered anything but they must have had something in mind to accommodate the Orthodox position, otherwise what was the point of pursuing the issue of reunification?
     
  12. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    That's true enough but we have to be very careful about judging people's motives.
     
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  13. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    The Orthodox Church itself is decentralized.
     
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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    Because Jesus prayed to the Father that all may be one.
     
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  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

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    Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Therefore it is impossible for there to be Truth without Love.
     
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  16. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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    I think Pope John Paul II intended to resolve the issue around the Filioque clause by adopting a conciliatory formula in the apostolic creed that the Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son. I also believe that he wanted a union that would maintain unchanged everything that does not go directly against the Catholic faith, such as infant baptism by immersion, the sacrament of Holy Confirmation for babies, the ancient formula for the sign of the cross, etc. As for Pope Francis, it seems to me that he is not concerned about the return of the Orthodox to the Catholic faith, considering the heretical statements attributed to him in interviews with journalist Eugenio Scalfari in March 2018 and October 2019, respectively, such as denying the existence of hell and denying the divinity of Christ. In both cases, he never publicly denied what Scalfari attributed to him and even paid posthumous praise to the journalist in 2022.
     
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  17. Thank you De Gaulle
    Your comment got the cogs in my old brain turning yet again. I understand what you say and of course you may be right. But not everyone has faith and fewer have Faith and even fewer still have The Faith. “Many are called but few are chosen.” Such differences gave rise to questions such as Pilate’s “What is Truth?” In philosophy “the starting point” is of primary importance. In his heart and mind Pilate did not possess the question “Who is Truth?”
    Jesus identifies himself as The Truth. In Lourdes Our Lady identifies herself as The Immaculate Conception. When questioning St Bernadette her parish priest at first did not accept or understand this. Even though he believed he found it very strange that Our Lady would say her name was an event that personified her. I note that you use upper case T in Truth. But this is not common usage of the word. I was talking about those times when it is presumed they are “teaching someone a lesson” or proudly claiming they are “just telling things as they are”. Such times are often devoid of Truth but have plenty of truth.
     
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  18. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    Yes, it is decentralised with each Patriarch being a kind of Pope. Constantinople seems to have more influence despite Moscow's aspiration to be the new Rome. I think there are also more faithful (I use that term loosely) in Russia than any of the other Orthodox countries. Pope Francis seems to think that something similar to the Orthodox is preferable to what we have now - a system of national churches with Rome being the arbiter in any disputes. That seems to be the role Constantinople has with the Orthodox. Of course, I could be completely wrong especially as Francis has no problem exercising his Papal authority now albeit on a piecemeal basis.

    How can we all be one if something as fundamental as the indissolubility of marriage varies from country to country or from diocese to diocese? The Orthodox still oppose divorce on paper while permitting it in practice - and not just one divorce. They allow up to three divorces, so a person can have four living spouses. I wonder why they stop at three divorces if the conditions for a fourth or fifth are met.

    Shouldn't the discussions on unity have ceased once the Orthodox permitted divorce? They didn't, which means that previous Popes had to have reckoned that the Orthodox position could be tolerated. I suppose that the Orthodox would say that we oppose divorce on paper while permitting it in practice through annulments. The high number of annulments granted in some countries might lend weight to that argument.
     
  19. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    Doesn't divorce and remarriage go directly against the Catholic faith? Do you know what solution Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict had for the Orthodox position on divorce? We don't know how Pope Francis worded his statements to Scalfari and are obliged to give him the benefit of the doubt. My guess is that he answered Scalfari's questions using convoluted Jesuitical terms that could be interpreted in many ways. That he didn't deny it is scandalous but it's not proof that Scalfari's report was accurate.
     
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  20. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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    I think I read once that John Paul II wanted to visit Mount Athos on a visit to Greece, which unfortunately did not happen. I personally think that the pope wanted a sacramental unity (with the exception of the stance on dissolvable marriage) that would lead to a unity on the issue of moral doctrine.
     

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