If Pope Francis is not the Pope ( I hold and believe that he is the Pope) it would not effect in any way the validity of the Bishop's he appoints, why because bishops are consecrated, and indeed Pope Francis who is already a bishop, which is the fullness of the priesthood has the God given power to consecrate.
If a pope is elected, he is not false, in my opinion. I think he could be false only in the context of Benedict's resignation being invalid, as one cannot elect a second valid pope. Personally, I continue to think that Pope Francis is a valid, but wicked pope. One can decide wickedness from a person's words and actions, which are in the public square for all to see. However, although Pope Francis' not being a valid pope is certainly plausible, it remains for others of the required authority to decide this. I do not see this being the case, no matter how well the theory is being argued. This might change, of course, in the future. There is no reason why a wicked pope can not do as much damage as an imposter one. The fact that such a pope is legitimate seems to me even more of an offence against the office.
Since the church is the new Israel, I think we could equate the bad popes with the wicked kings of Israel who committed the sin of idolatry, like Ahab, Manasseh, and Ahaz, for example. However, while the old covenant was abolished on the cross, the new covenant, marked by the most precious blood of Christ, will last until the end of time.
Your last sentence being underlined in real time by current events as many in the Israeli establishment vainly pursue the reimplementation of the abolished covenant.
I have listened to BP Strickland and Ab Schneider on this and have come to the conclusion that we are stuck with him until the Good Lord relieves us. For now take the long view and stand at the foot of the Cross with our Lady and all the faithful priests and Bishops. There is no other way. We have been chosen for this martyrdom. Our children and grandchildren will hopefully be part of the glorious restoration.
I’ve mentioned this before but a friend of mine was told many years ago by a Benedictine monk that it would take three generations to restore the church. She told me the monk’s name but I’ve forgotten. It was someone well-known whose opinion would have some weight. When I asked her if I would see that time she just looked at me sadly. The thing is, I’ve never experienced the real Catholic Church in practice. My reversion was in 1973 and I didn’t have much formation growing up. Oh well, we were born for these times.
I think that if you have a solid and true faith and good spiritual discernment, you have experienced the true Catholic Church in practice, but I understand your feeling; it seems that we are living in Babylonian captivity.
Jesus is in your soul when you receive His body and blood, soul and divinity while in a state of grace. We focus on that.
I get what you guys are saying but I was really talking about our Catholic life, among other things. I was born in 1953 and I imagine most MOG members are younger. I was talking to my godmother as we came out of Mass one day. I said that I didn’t understand those who hankered for the old Mass (like my father who attended on and off until the Mass changed, then he boycotted it). She replied quietly that I didn’t remember what we had. She had been born in 1914. That comment made me think that the experience of the lived faith was different in the first half of the 20th century. Maybe this clung on longer in other parts of the world. When I found the Lord in the 70s everyone was reading Hans Kung and spouting heterodoxy that I bought into as I knew nothing else. I’d never been to Benediction, Adoration, processions, any kind of mission… so yeah, please allow me to feel a sense of loss.
Well, you can feel your sense of loss if you want to. For myself, I prefer to focus on what we have left. The disciples at Emmaus had Jesus in the breaking of the bread.
There are parishes today who have Adoration and Benediction. I belong to one. But I do agree that there is a real loss. The Church is still the Bride of Christ and He is cleansing it prior to restoring it.
I'm sorry, Clare. I am young compared to most here. I was born in 1985 and always attended relatively faithful but very watered-down Catholic churches. What my mom and I did was read all of the old Catholic books and practice all of the timeless pious devotions like the Sacred Heart, Holy Face, etc. We listened to Gregorian Chant on tape/cd, prayed the daily rosary, and went to daily Mass even though it was in ugly churches. When I was a little older, I'd visit Jesus and be the only one there. I could walk up and hug the strange floating tabernacle stuck in a side room because there was no one there to see...but it was so special because it was just Jesus and I together. I'd read in my old Catholic books about times when communities were centered around their vibrant Catholic parish full of zeal and orthodoxy, Eucharistic processions and May crownings, and I'd wish fervently that I'd lived in those days. I thought those times were over. It never even occurred to me that they could be revived...as I thought the current Church was just the way things were now. So I understand your feeling of loss, while also agreeing with HH that even in that loss there was and is still Jesus Himself, to unite ourselves to and receive. And think of the gloriousness of Heaven that approaches for those of us who love and cling to Him! And I have to say, 2.5 years ago I discovered the Latin Mass and joined a thriving FSSP parish, and I was amazed and overjoyed to find that the vibrant Catholic community I'd always thought was a thing of the past is alive and well there, and in other growing pockets of the world. Things are changing. I hope you get to see more of it soon!
Clare I completely understand your sense of loss. My childhood through high school was the "old" church although it began to change in 1963. By 1968 it was all but gone. I went to Catholic school through 6th grade. Nuns were devout, kind and intensely interested in our welfare. I remember daily Mass every day before school ( mandated) and the nuns singing chant in the front rows. They read us stories of saints. We memorized the catechism. I can still recite that first page of the Baltimore catechism. Prayer was incredibly important. We were encouraged to make visits to the Blessed Sacrament. We were warned of the tactics of the devil. My first year at a Catholic woman's college still maintained that Catholic sense. The nuns still wore their habits. And then the next year everything changed. I mean everything! Guitar Masses. No habits. A loosening of everything. At a time I most needed that firm anchor it was gone and I ventured out into the wilderness. My mother's prayers and the compassion of the Blessed Mother kept me from complete loss of faith. I returned to the Church but I felt like Mary Magdalena. " they have taken away my Lord and I don't know where they have laid Him." Thank God for the charismatic renewal. At that time it was the lone beacon of Catholic faith. Of people who loved the Eucharist and Our Lady. It wasn't the Latin Mass but it was a spar from the shipwreck that I could cling to. Bit by bit the Church under JPII began to return to its roots but it was spotty. My children went through the loosey goosy sacramental prep--the head catechist claiming the Eucharist was a symbol--I could go on. I have made peace with it at this point. My children abandoned the Church because they've never truly known the Church. My husband converted after I went to Medjugore but left 20 years later in the midst of the scandals. Nothing but wreckage all around me. But I live in hope and offer the suffering. We are in a long Lent. A terrible deprivation. But we soldier on. We still have valid Masses and good priests and bishops. We have not been completely orphaned. Our Lady is our anchor our map our ark. As she told Sister Lucy " only I can help you."
I converted to Catholicism when I was 15 during the interregnum period in June, 1963. Pope John XXIII had died and Pope Paul VI had not yet been elected. That corroborates AED’s recollection. In 1962, when I started attending Mass, everyone prayed a special prayer for the success of the Ecumenical Council. I concur with AED’s timeline.
https://www.saint-faustina.org/online-transmission/ Clare, Seagrace posted this link to the chapel in Poland. I just clicked on it and the priest was doing Benediction and the nuns were singing. It's live from Poland.
