Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, May 26, 2021.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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  2. any name you wish

    any name you wish Archangels

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  3. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    The TLM will go back underground, unfortunately.

    Even though I attend a reverent and orthodox Novus Ordo 95% of the time, I know where my local SSPX chapel is located, I’ve been there several times, and I have no scruples whatsoever about joining them in the future. Many of my friends locally already have.
     
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  4. AED

    AED Powers

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    I expect the days of reverent valid NO Masses are numbered as well. Daniel speaks of the abolishing of the Holy Sacrifice and Jesus warns of it too. Its hard not to think that is what is afoot. I hope I am wrong.
     
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  5. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    Lord have Mercy! A death by many cuts. Another way to look at it is a tank that slowly fills with water; death by drowning, unless you use the escape hatch. But that hatch is the Society of Pius X, and once everyone who loves the TLM is corralled in the Society, the Society will be formally declared schismatic! It really appears that Pope Francis wants to nail the coffin shut.:cry:
     
  6. AED

    AED Powers

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    :cry::unsure:
     
  7. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    At that point I think PF and his “declarations” could be safely ignored.
     
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  8. RoryRory

    RoryRory Perseverance

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    Love this. My mom was French.
     
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  9. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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  10. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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  11. Ananchal

    Ananchal Vigilans

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    What about the eastern churches that are still in line with Rome like the Byzantine. Are their masses also being changed or suppressed?
     
  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    The eastern Churches are outside the scope of Novus Ordo vs. the TLM. I don't believe the Vatican would choose to battle 22 other Churches whose numbers are significantly smaller. Besides, to the best of my knowledge, their Liturgies are valid, but rooted in different Liturgical Traditions. One of my deacon classmates led us in praying their Divine Office: beautiful, but different. The single book of canon law for those 22 Churches also has varying nuances. I've only attended a Holy Mass in the Maronite Church. It is ethnically based (Lebanese). Very rich; much of the Holy Mass was sung.:)
     
  13. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    https://cathcon.blogspot.com/2023/02/vatican-publishes-enabling-act-for.html?m=1

    Vatican publishes Enabling Act for the destruction of the Latin Mass
    Chris-Translator from French and German into English
    Who can dispense with the regulations of "Traditionis custodes"? Pope Francis makes it clear that only the liturgical dicastery can do so. With the new decree now published, the Vatican can reclaim many local special permissions for the Old Mass.

    [​IMG]


    Pope Francis has determined that the dispensational power for Mass celebrations in the pre-conciliar form rests with the Apostolic See. A decree of the Pope published on Tuesday states that only the Vatican can grant dispensations for such Mass celebrations in parish churches or for the establishment of corresponding personal parishes. The same applies to special permission for individual priests, provided they were ordained after 16 July 2021.

    According to the decree, the Vatican authority for liturgy and sacraments is responsible for implementing and monitoring the new norm. Bishops who have already granted such exemptions must now submit them to the authority for review.

    Special permits could be confiscated

    Already in July 2021, Francis had considerably restricted the possibilities for celebrating Mass in the old rite with the letter "Traditionis custodes". With the now published implementing regulations, the Vatican can also revoke many local special permissions. In principle, "Traditiones custodes" emphasises that the diocesan bishops have sovereignty over where Mass is celebrated in the pre-conciliar form in their diocese. However, the prefect of the liturgical dicastery, Cardinal Arthur Roche, takes the position that the diocesan bishops' power of dispensation does not apply in the matters of "Traditionis custodes". In Germany, the Archbishop of Freiburg had allowed pre-conciliar celebrations in two parish churches.

    In North America, but also in some European countries, some parishes in which Mass is celebrated according to the old rite have experienced considerable growth in recent years. In 2007, Pope Benedict XVI (2005-2013) made the celebration of the Old Mass possible again worldwide without special conditions. In the survey conducted in preparation for the World Synod meeting in Rome in October, believers in several countries had indicated that they would feel marginalised by a ban on the Old Mass.

    The papal decree was published as "Rescriptum ex audientia" (Audience Protocol) by the Vatican Press Office. It comes into force with its publication in the Vatican newspaper "L'Osservatore Romano". In recent weeks, there has been increased speculation in traditionalist circles about a renewed tightening of the regulations on the pre-conciliar Mass.

    Source

    Cathcon: Never in the history of the Church has there been such shocking abuse of power.
    [​IMG]

    4DDC66FD-D667-4E8B-B765-DC3898668A12.jpeg


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  14. Ang

    Ang Archangels

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    O
    I do wonder what the traditional churches are going to do? Do they need to submit to authority? Or so they need to go underground? When will be the “right” time to disobey this pope?
     
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  15. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    I personally have no scruples about disregarding directives from this Vatican regime that go against the Faith.

    Unlike others, I most definitely do NOT believe any pope has the authority to abrogate the TLM, as Pope Benedict XVI made perfectly clear.

    PF cannot go 180• against the teachings of the previous pope. His “directives” on this issue can and SHOULD be ignored.

    This is NOT a matter of “obedience.”

    Lex malla, lex nulla. A bad law is no law."
     
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  16. Ang

    Ang Archangels

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    Well I pray the bishops have the strength to “ignore” the directive. Although, I do wonder what the consequence of that will be.
     
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  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    God will take care of this.
     
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  18. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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    I'm waiting to see if the German church will need permission from Rome to compose some ecumenical liturgy after the synod, as one of the topics of discussion was intercommunion with Protestants.
     
  19. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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  20. Mario

    Mario Powers

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