Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

Bingo. It’s why we are being illuminated to follow the True Magisterium

 

He is the Pope.

To where should I as a Catholic go but go to Our Father Pope Francis, the reigning Pontiff?

He's the Pope.


All the Bishops and Cardinals of World say it;

Tu es Petrus

 

now you’re getting the hang of it

 

when the Pope is giving his diabolically disorientated opinions, not when he’s speaking ex cathedra

it’s a very very very important distinction, with a difference

 

And Brian hits Bingo as well

 

Obedience is owed to our pope even when he commits many errors. If that were not so, we wouldn't owe obedience to any pope, because all popes mess up through sin. The pope isn't owed our obedience from his own merit, but because of the sacredness of his office, and Who he represents. If the pope directly orders us to sin, then no, we should not obey him in that. But that has not happened and I don't expect it will. A pope ordering his Church to sin sounds like the gates of Hell prevailing against the Church, which Christ promised would never happen.

Now, making it harder for people to attend TLM so they'll attend the valid Novus Ordo instead? That is nowhere near ordering people to sin, and therefore would fall under obedience. You think we don't owe obedience to the pope, but if we don't owe it to him, who then? And even if it's not a technicality, shouldn't we have a spirit of obedience toward him? Shouldn't we WANT to obey the head of our Church? I'm not sure God is too pleased with an obedience that we pick and choose according to what we agree with. If it's sinful, then of course not, but matters of the Church? That falls under the pope's authority. You and I don't have that authority.

We live in confusing times, for sure, and if the pope is in error on some things, that's between him and God. When in doubt, a lay person should always err on the side of obedience because it keeps our souls safe. We would please God far more by attending the Novus Ordo out of obedience than by attending TLM in disobedience. The NO Mass is not sinful. Or do you think it is?

Anyway, I think we're all getting way ahead of ourselves and should wait quietly for Pope Francis' actual document to come out. There is no point in losing our peace over assumptions.

 

Yes, it has. He told married couples it’s ok the use condoms to prevent Zika.

No, it’s not. That’s heresy.

If they have a truly life threatening disease, the Church is a loving Mother; she isn’t going to tell them to go ahead but use a barrier with a 60-80% failure rate at preventing the spread of such a virus when used 30 days a month. (The only reason condoms have a “higher” efficacy rate in preventing pregnancy is a woman can only conceive one week or so per month, but she can spread or be infected by a virus 30 days a month.)

Besides the obvious contradiction of Humana Vitae.

Please go back to the first page and read the LifeSiteNews article for other instances where it has and is happening.

 

I am linking an article and have extracted one quote to give an idea of what is in it, but it is well-worth taking the time to read the entire piece which is footnoted for references. Sinful disobedience should upset any Catholic worth his or her salt, but not all disobedience is sinful even if it’s towards the Pope.But this isn’t my teaching and it stands within Church parameters according to what I’ve read.

Quote:

Francisco Suarez (1548–1617) of the School of Salamanca, a Jesuit priest and theologian, considered by many to be one of the greatest Scholastics after St. Thomas Aquinas himself, wrote:

“If the Pope lays down an order contrary to right customs one does not have to obey him; if he tries to do something manifestly opposed to justice and to the common good, it would be licit to resist him; if he attacks by force, he could be repelled by force, with the moderation characteristic of a good defense.” (Suarez, De Fide, disp. X, sect. VI, n. 16. De Fide, disp. X, sec VI, no. 16)

Here’s the article. Please don’t shoot the messenger!

https://onepeterfive.com/disobey-pope/

 

Preposterous!!

He said, for instance, that we have a “moral obligation” to get the Covid “vaccine.”

No, no we don’t.

In fact, we have a moral obligation NOT to get it, and to explain why NOT to get it to others, based on the use of fetal cell lines, the grave side effects including multiple miscarriages, vascular complications like clots, heart attacks and strokes, and the minuscule chance of actually dying from a viral infection that 99.7% of people survive.

It is morally repugnant that this pope is falsely telling the faithful they have a “moral obligation” to take this vaccine, I owe him no obedience in this, and I will openly oppose him on this - with a clear conscience in the eyes of God!

 

I think there's a big distinction here. Giving his opinion that it is a moral obligation to get a vaccine (which he didn't officially order anyone to do) doesn't fall directly under his umbrella of authority the way a Church matter like the conditions under which TLM is allowed does.

I won't argue this further. I've made my case and think this whole discussion is much more about the spirit of obedience than the letter of the law.

 

100% agree. At this point everyone should be at least hearing both sides of the argument. Blind obedience is a type of slothful ignorance in my opinion.

Having information reaffirms my faith even if we have a heretical top dog.

 

Since an understanding of this issue is so far gone in the post VII Church, it’s pointless to debate whether such an unjust order falls under “obedience” here on this forum.

 

nd

I don't think we can underestimate the importance of the traditional Latin Mass. Fr. Ripperger has stated that as the liturgy goes, so goes the Church --- as we've seen since Vatican 2. I say this as a Novus Ordorite who through many discussions with TLM friends believes that the Novus Ordo Mass is valid but perhaps not licit. Defending the worship given to God by the TLM is likely the just thing to do. Rolling over to a pope who is opposed to two millenia of apostolic tradition on the most important act of worshipping God seems imprudent to me.

 

Of course your central point is correct. This needs the counter weight however of the equally valid declaration that the Holy Father is himself not free from personal error and sin. The TLM is in itself an expression of the very substance of Catholic faith. There is on this earthly plane no higher manifestation of the reality of the Faith. If it is beauty that saves the world then it is right there every day in the Mass. Truth, Goodness, Beauty and the indivisibility of the Faith.

 

I really hope St Mary's doesnt close and the word to Canon Hepelle never comes to pass.

 

And...... As if on cue:

Pachamama Is Back For Pentecost - YouTube

 

Thus is the fate of the Pachamama worshippers...

 

Right now, according to my understanding of this, the TLM will still be allowed. However, priests who want to celebrate it will be required to receive permission from the Bishop.

 

Great!

 

In other words, then, in the vast majority of dioceses it won’t be allowed.

The membership at SSPX chapels, however, will explode.