Thank you for posting this item. It is a really interesting and enlightening piece. For me, it comes as a beautiful illustration of how the Lord prepares us for what He wants us to do in later life. It clearly shows the spiritual suffering experienced by Francis on his way to his current role.
Holy "Saintly" Father seemed to have hit a nerve. No one should be upset because we all know he is not speaking to anyone on MOG directly. And the argument that Padre pio was ridged is nonsense. Saint Pio was faithful and obedient to the church even though he was personally attacked by some clergy. But he understood it was Gods will. For those that took our Holy Fathers words to heart. I go back to the saints...if you are touched by grace you understand you are the biggest sinner. It is that simple. Mother Theresa new how great... even her smallest sins were. Some people talk the the talk but don't walk the walk. That is the ridged and Pharisee mind set. Brother al
Brother Al, The idea that I was proposing that the Holy Father was directly addressing members of the forum directly is ludicrous enough to stand or fall on its own, so I will leave that to the one side. The other propostion that the saints let themselves be used as human punch bags, silent in the face of evil is actually quite a widesperead one so I would like to take this up. You mentioned Padre Pio so I would like to tell you a true story about the saint. Padre Pio' s biggest fan when he was first starting to become famous was his Arhcbishop who visited the Firary. In the confessional raised voices were heard and the Archbishop was ejected at high speed from the box with Padre Pio;s voice heard be Firars shouting loudly at him. It turned out that the Archbishop was a paedophile and local people turning against him rioted , stormed into his palace and beat his Grace up, breaking his ecclesial nose. It was this same hihg clerk apaprently who raised a storm against Padre Pio claimed his stigmata was caused by the use of carbolic acid. Padre Pio after shouting at chasing off the child molesting Archbishop was subject to torment by the Vatican for most of the rest of his life. But there is a difference bwtween not speaking out when there is nothing esle you can do but acccept the Cross and Padre Pio did this heroically. But when he had a chance to shout at the child molestor ,shout he did. You can read about this incident here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/605181.Padre_Pio Was Jesus silent in the face of evil by the religious authorities of his day, was St John the Baptist were the Prophets? Why of course they weren;t , Scripture is full of running battles when tehy spoke out and condemned. THat is why they all wound up dead, if they'd kept quiet as you advie they would have had a peaceful death alone . Jesus fairly roared at them as indeed Padre Pio was famous for roaring himslef. I must say the idea of the saint as a dumb punch bag in the face of great evil does n't do it for me. This was certianly not the example Jesus left us> I liked it when jesus kicked ass, I liked it when the saints like Padre Pio kicked that child abusing Archbishops ass and God will ing I hope to go kicking ass myself thank you very much.
Have a thought on the following Scripture and it's meaning.. jesus never intended that men replace their manhood with pink fluffy fur>
I rarely encounter Pharisees at Church. But I have met thousands of liberals who don't live according to the teachings of the Church. The problem is not the rigid. The central problem in the Church are the liberals and the progressives who twist Church teaching to suit their own agenda. It is the liberals of society who protect the sickos and the perverts.
There is times to fight and there is times to humbly accept the cross. The cross does not fight back. Yes, some of us are called to battle with the sword but others are here to accept the cross humbly.
Thank you, Padraig, what a wonderful essay, it gives us a better glimpse of our Holy Father. I had read several articles in Spanish about his work in Argentina, but was not aware of his personal struggles with his order, this article provides more background into understanding our Holy Father.
Yes, as I said there's a time to kick some ass and then again there'a time not to kick some ass. You appeared to suggest Holy Folk always shut up and put up.
Yes he is a most interesting and complex man. Though I might point out that the author(s0 have no real understanding of what the Catholic mystics , such as St John of the Corss meant when they descriube the , 'Dark Night of the Soul' Having a bad time coming to terms with yourself is not the Dark Night of the Soul.
Exactly, as Pope St John Paul said we have lost our sense of sin, not that we have too much sense of sin. Most of us have no sens eof sin whatsoever. I am talking about Cahtolics here by the way. I a sorry for quoting Pope st John Paul since apprently he is not quite the thing anymore is he? https://zenit.org/articles/loss-of-sense-of-sin-needs-urgent-attention-says-pope/ In his 1984 apostolic exhortation “Reconciliatio et Paenitentia,” the Holy Father warned that “the loss of the sense of sin is a form or fruit of the negation of God: not only of the atheist, but also of the secularist.” This phenomenon implies a paradox. “While the effects of sin abound — greed, dishonesty and corruption, broken relationships and exploitation of persons, pornography and violence — the recognition of individual sinfulness has waned,” he said. “In its place a disturbing culture of blame and litigiousness has arisen which speaks more of revenge than justice and fails to acknowledge that in every man and woman there is a wound which, in the light of faith, we call original sin,” John Paul II lamented. “Sin is an integral part of the truth about the human person. To recognize oneself as a sinner is the first and essential step in returning to the healing love of God,” he said. “Given this reality, the bishop’s duty to indicate the sad and destructive presence of sin, both in individuals and in communities, is in fact a service of hope,” the Pope said. “Far from being something negative, it strengthens believers to abandon evil and embrace the perfection of love and the fullness of Christian life,” he added. “Let us boldly announce that indeed we are not the sum total of our weaknesses and failures! We are the sum of the Father’s love for us, and capable of becoming the image of his Son!” he told the U.S. bishops. “The lasting peace and harmony so longed for by individuals, families and society can only be won through that conversion which is a fruit of mercy and constituent of genuine reconciliation,” the Holy Father said. “As bishops you have the difficult yet satisfying duty of promoting the true Christian understanding of reconciliation." “Indeed mercy constitutes the fundamental content of the messianic message of Christ and the constitutive power of his mission and thus can never be set aside in the name of pragmatism,” he continued. “As pastors of your flock it is with this merciful love — never a mere sense of favor — that you too must reach down to every prodigal son, to every human misery, and above all to every form of moral misery, to sin,” John Paul II said. The Holy Father concluded by encouraging the bishops to promote the sacrament of penance, “the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church.” “Though it cannot be denied that the profound power of this sacrament is often considered today with indifference, it is also the case that young people in particular readily give testimony to the graces and transforming benefits it bestows,” he said. “I again appeal directly to you and to your priests: Arm yourselves with more confidence, creativity and perseverance in presenting it and leading people to appreciate it,” he exhorted. “Time spent in the confessional is time spent in service of the spiritual patrimony of the Church and the salvation of souls.” View attachment 5506
How can people experience Mercy unless they first know they have sinned? And how can they know they have sinned unless they are convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit? ..and how can the Holy Spirit convict them of sin if the Holy Catholic Church, the Great Conduit of the Holy Spirit' remains silent?
I understand Fallen Saints difficulty here. I have the same problem. I see what I perceive as the auto-demolition (as Pope Paul VI called it) of the Church. Yet we are told by the great Saints and the Church to be obedient to our superiors. Some saint (I forget who. Maybe St. Francis) said we should be so obedient we are like a corpse that can be pushed around. The one exception to this is if we are being lead into sin. How to reconcile the two? This goes through my head all of the time. I am not sure of the answer. I can see Christ judging me in two ways: 1. The first by saying "Why were you not obedient? You know how highly I prize that. It is not your place to judge the actions of those I place above you." 2. Or "I showed you all that was going on, why did you not warn others? Souls were lost because of your inaction."
It seems to me, regrettably, that there is not much of a difference in President Obama's stance on public issues and the pope's . Obama issues executive orders to make end-runs around the constitution and the pope uses his "phony-orchestrated" synods to change church policy. If anyone truly believes the Holy Spirit is behind these changes, please tell me when a council has been clarified by a pope canonized as a saint and then corrupted by the next pope. That they all may be one sounds like a great excuse, but as a revert from a non-denominational evangelical church, this pope has only alienated that group of Christians, not to mention the orthodox. Pope Francis dream of a new world order is just that, a pipe-dream. I hope and pray he wakes up.
That is what what God gave us consciences for. But , sadly, consciences work only as well as their owners souls. These are times of Great Confusion it is true. But that's what the Holy Spirit is there for, to sort it out. Evil , like Good, does not stand still. I understood at the start of the long dark path Pope Francis and his pals have dragged us down there might be confusion. But we have been dragged down far enough and dark enough to surely have begun to realise the dragging is only going to end up at the Gates of Hell. In other words the Great Evil behind all this is showing its face more and more clearly and will even more so as time goes on. ..and it is a very,very great evil indeed , do not underestimate it, this is no small wickedness.
That's a CNN essay, the same channel that would have us believe that Obama, Clinton & Co are saints. Read it again. They make then Fr. Bergoglio out to be a martyr when the truth was that he was a priest who had taken a vow of obedience but was a ringleader among trouble makers that the legitimate authority considered disruptive. What I took from that essay is that his superiors dealt with the trouble makers by removing the ringleader. A monastery in Argentina's second largest city is not exactly Alcatraz or the periphery. Was his rebellious behaviour justified? We don't know because we don't know what he was rebelling against. Since we don't know the other side of the story, we have no business swallowing the line that he was some kind of victim soul.
Well my conscience seems to be SCREAMING at me some very uncomfortable things. Things I want to be darned sure about before I go around repeating them to others. Particularly on the internet where everything we write is "forever". I try to be vague and get the warning out but not "point the finger" at anyone in particular. All I know is: We are in the End Times. There is a great Apostasy happening in the Church. Churchmen and laity are both involved in it. It is so diabolically cunning that almost no one sees it. In fact those that do see it and speak up are often persecuted for it. That is the scariest part. I would say less than 1% of Catholics realize what is actually happening. People like those of us on the forum. Even those that do have eyes to see cannot agree 100% on what exactly is happening. The rest are being led like lambs to the slaughter. If it were not for the many approved prophecies and apparitions like the one at Akita I would surely think it was me who was seeing things incorrectly since I am in such a minority.
Read it again? Why? What I did find corroborative was that His Holiness and his order were at odds over liberation theology. After reading Fr. Malachi Martin's excellent book on the Jesuits, titled, The Jesuits: The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church , he described how the order in South and Central America were invested in liberation theology. They had an open war with the Vatican of Saint Pope John Paul II.
It's CNN. Of course they would try to give the impression that he was disciplined for his opposition to liberation theology, but they don't actually say that because they don't know. This is the piece I found most telling: Even more troublesome for the province, his devotees honored Bergoglio's every word as holy writ. And, after holding high Jesuit office for 15 years, he had attracted a sizable entourage, perhaps 40% of the province. The Rev. Arthur Liebscher, an American Jesuit studying in Argentina during the 1980s, remembers Bergoglio's retinue as brash and cocksure. "Prophets are fine," he said with a laugh, "but their disciples are really hard to take."
I think a very good example to study is the General Apostasy under King Henry the viii in England. History is a great teacher and what happened then is happening now only on a global scale and including the Highest Offices of the Church. Before the King turned apsotate everything in the garden looked rosy. Henry the 8th was considered , 'Defender of the Faith' the country was totally Catholic, the Church very rich , prosperous and everywhere accepted. But when Henry lapsed only one Catholic Bishop in the whole of England and Wales stayed loyal to the Church , St John FIsher. So lloking form the outside in everything was wonderful, yet one solid kick and it all collapsed, why? Well you can give a load of the obvious human answers. The Church was too rich and powerful. When Christianity thrives materially it is doing worse spiritually. When it is persecuted most it thrives best. A kind of spiritual pruning process. This is what is happening at the moment . The CHurch was thorughly rotten, Francis and his firends have given it a good solid kick and it has begun to disintergrate. I dare say Sy John FIhser and st Thomas More flet like nuts for holding onto the truth alsmot alone but there you have it. There is onephenomena about the collapse of the CHurch in HEnry's England which is insightful of r us. THat is the ordinary people held onto the Faith while the rich and powerful, including the rich and powerful Catholic EPiscopy sold out. We are in the same mode at the minute. Our Bishops, our Cardinals most of our priests are in the selling out mode. It is the poor people, the anawem who are holding fast. THis should come as no surprise. It is a story told over and over again in Scripture. Perhaps it is only my personal experience, but I ahve to say in my own personal pray life the epople who I have always found most inimical to me is the religious establishment. So I am happy to be in the , 'nut job/ eccentrie/ extremist' camp. So was Jesus, so were the Apsoltles, that why they butchered them. The authentic postion of any CHirsitan is to be hanging on a cross with people spitting up at you, alone. The worst place for the Chriswtian to be is sitting comfortably on a golden throne. Before Francis got into action that is were the Church sat on a golden throne. I am most comfortable on a Cross being spat it because I have gottne used to it. My greatest, gravest worry would be if the rleigious establishment agree with me. We, none of us are going to get to heaven by following majority moral consent. We must follow the light of the Holy Spirit into the outer dark. If we do not have grave doubts and questions something is not working right in our Spiritual Life. THere must always be grave dounts and questions, for this is the fertizer through which we grow. But grow we must. Jeus made it clear He did not like hedge sitters. My advise to any one in these latter days is to hang happily on the Cross even when it is the Pope himself who is spitting up at you. Revelation 3:16 To the Church in Laodicea …15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other. 16So because you are lukewarm — neither hot nor cold — I am about to spit you out of My mouth! 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.…
