"Francis has been totally orthodox..can only be faulted by faulty reading"

I can't admit to that one Frodo..I search very thoroughly. But anyway what you post in here can be refuted quite easily.

 

FatimaPilgrim

I believe that just as you did turn your concerns on Pope Francis to prayer, so did most of the members of MOG. We are praying to the same God.

I have no doubt that God has a plan, in all of this confusion and it is only His will that matters. While I have no fear for the future, I firmly believe that our Church is on a path not congruent with established dogma.

I thank God for everyone here, but my prayer is that we soften our exchanges, when we have a differing opinion. Sarcasm is not from God .. we are all made in His Image.

God Bless

 

"While I have no fear for the future, I firmly believe that our Church is on a path not congruent with established dogma."

There is no way the Church can be in error, Light. Now individuals can be in error, but not the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

Lol. Thanks for the morning chuckle Janet.

I'm still waiting for an adequate answer for post#357... but perhaps you were too busy trying to find the whole truth with the sex ed program? ...

The fact is You are wrong:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...n-flight-interview-from-mexico-to-rome-85821/

Read it for yourself, or if you like watch it... I am sure you know where to find the video since you seem to know where to find information, no?

He was clearly making reference to contraception. He also tried to make reference to Paul VI doing so, but the only problem is that it has been thoroughly debunked as having no merit.

So, no - the pope is not saying what the church and previous popes have always said. In fact he has become the only pope in history to advocate married couples use of contraception.

Father Lombardi, who acting in the capacity of official spokesperson, confirmed it as well.
http://www.catholicnews.com/service...ntraceptives-may-be-lesser-evil-pope-says.cfm

Fr. Lombardi told Vatican Radio today, “The contraceptive or condom, in particular cases of emergency or gravity, could be the object of discernment in a serious case of conscience. This is what the Pope said.”

Do you have the intellectual honesty to admit the truth?

Or do you have a different agenda here?

I have a feeling I already know the answer...

 

Yes, but the Church is not on the wrong path, rather individuals within the Church are on the wrong path, just as individuals in the world (unfortunately the majority of individuals in the world), are on the wrong path.

People are sinful, people fall, but God will pick them back up. But Jesus' promise that the gates of hell will not prevail is an intact promise and one we must all cling to. Evil seeks to get you out of the safety of our Church by whispering his lies to you. Don't let him get you out of the boat. Stick in here with us and keep your eyes on Jesus. Jesus is not worried, why should you be? "Be Not Afraid".

Stick in the boat, brothers and sisters.

 

The old Pharisee quote doesn't wash with a lot of people on this forum, David.

It is often the case when people cannot engage in healthy debate they tend to resort to name-calling.

And often it is the lazy way to go! A cop-out from dialogue.

You are better than that.

 

And you don't have an agenda and preconceived ideas?

So it is a case of the 'pot calling the kettle black'.

 

this is a bit amusing. I thought I was making a bit too many responses... And look at what you say about Janet who has engaged, point by point, in responding to Dolours and others. I don't think we can win can we? The paharisaical comment, I'm afraid, is accurate.

 

What I said to Janet was to look in the mirror first as she accused others of having preconceived ideas and agendas. I know no one on earth who doesn't have either! A case of looking at the speck in your own eye first, as Jesus taught.

You are entitled to your opinion but the casual use of Pharisee to dismiss others you disagree with is infantile in my opinion.

 

I specifically didn't call anyone a 'Pharisee'. I am talking about a pharisaically way of thinking. It is very present on the forum and on the wider internet among the traditionalist groups. It is a way of looking at one's faith which can block God's love.

 

"Confession is a waste of time if repentance and a purpose of amendment are not required for absolution. The Church has always been a hospital for sinners. Band-aids don't treat disease and are more likely to aid the spread of infection than to cure it. "

POPE FRANCIS says.... "If you don't listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and if you do not trust Him, your heart has not yet repented.” The Pope said that Jesus condemned the hypocrites who called themselves 'pure' but lived a double life. If your heart is not a repentant heart, if you do not listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and you do not trust in Him, your heart is unrepentant. "

" Have the German Bishops, so admired by the Pope, traded their Audis for bicycles?"

Now you know as well as I do that this pope has told the Bishops to get out among the sheep...and live in more moderate dwellings, rather than sumptuous palaces.

"Of course that priest knew what he was doing, but his excuse was "pastoral accompaniment". If the priests can't figure out the difference between right and wrong under Pope Francis, what hope for the rest of us?"

In his own apostolic exhortation, Sacramentum Caritatis, Pope Benedict used the same term"pastoral accompaniment" in the same context of the pastoral care of the divorced and remarried.

"Pope Francis describes this "accompaniment" as a " Conversation with the priest, in the internal forum, contributing to the formation of a correct judgment on what hinders the possibility of a fuller participation in the life of the Church and on what steps can foster it and make it grow. Given that gradualness is not in the law itself (cf. Familiaris Consortio 34), this discernment can never prescind from the Gospel demands of truth and charity, as proposed by the Church.”


For Pope Francis it means taking them by the hand, and leading them to the objective truth and reality of their situation so that they might recognise the imperfect, sinful nature of their circumstances, and then choose to amend their life according to the law of Christ.

"I believe that history will prove that Pope Francis was a shepherd who hastened the great apostasy. I can only pray that his successor will make a better effort of defending the deposit of faith. "

I think that in a very short time you will recant of these words of yours.

God Bless You.

 

The Pharisaical way of thinking equates to self righteousness and hypocrisy.

How do you know that those you accuse of a Pharisaical way of thinking on this forum are self righteous and hypocrites?

The very people you accuse of this may well be real saints in the eyes of God because they know Him and live in communion with Him in a state of grace!

Are you able to read souls?

 

By reading posts you can see a lot about the persons soul.

 

I take it with the smiley face that you are joking?

 

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, garabandal. When I speak about a pharisaical way of thinking, I'm meaning a focus on rules at the expense of listening to the Holy Spirit and our hearts.

 

Obedience is the fruit of love.

The Catechism and teachings of the Church have been given to us under the inspiration of the very Spirit that you invoke.

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.
As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
Luke 23v56

 

Of course it is, garabandal, but if your read and absorb Pope Francis' homilies you will find the Holy Father has a similar approach.

 

I doubt it.

Many people who rely on listening to the "Holy Spirit" and their hearts have gone wrong because it leads to a personal interpretation of faith that takes them away from the truth.

One only has to look at the thousands and myriad different sects who have listened to the Spirit and followed their hearts to see the result of that individualistic approach.

 

No gotcha games.

Not a joke.

This is all too serious a matter.

You have all of the information.

It is abundantly clear he was talking about contraceptive, to nuns in Africa. The problem is that Paul VI never gave his permission: https://timeline.com/pope-francis-g...ontraception-and-zika-6a9d5d0960cd#.8ru8778sl

It is also abundantly clear that the pope compared contraception in the Congo nun's case (which again has no basis in history) to contraception - not NFP - in order to avoid pregnancy in the case of Zika:

In Zika outbreak, contraceptives may be 'lesser evil,' pope says
http://www.catholicnews.com/service...ntraceptives-may-be-lesser-evil-pope-says.cfm

Here is the whole exchange according to Pope Francis's own words, which I had provided earlier as well:

So I ask you again... will you admit that he misspoke and was in error?