“I’M NOT INTERESTED IN CONVERTING EVANGELICALS TO CATHOLICISM.”

That's it in a nutshell. I heard a top Conservative Rabbi who is backing the dreadful Carey say on the radio, 'We see no Spiritual value in suffering'. For a Jewish Rabbi to say this is just so sad, for a, 'Christian' appalling.

But of course these people are no longer Christian.

Sometimes I feel like doing what my dogs sometimes do and putting my head back and having a good old howl.

View attachment 2078

 

This is a view unfamiliar for me. Below is a quote from a site (while attempting to find sites/articles on this topic) which more reflects how I was catechised wrt the role of the Pope.

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...#v=onepage&q=pope as spiritual father&f=false

 

I read the article Padraig,..but on pg.51 #4 it speaks about the rapture,...isn't that a protestant belief?

 

The New Testament contains five different metaphors for the foundation of the Church (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14).

"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."

Tatian the Syrian
"Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it" (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]).

Ephraim the Syria

"[Jesus said:] ‘Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples’" (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).

Ambrose of Milan

"[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church. . . . ’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?" (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

"It is to Peter that he says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church is, no death is there, but life eternal" (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]).

Pope Damasus I

"Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has not been placed at the forefront [of the churches] by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it" (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).

Jerome

"‘But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division" (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]).

"I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails" (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]).

Augustine

"If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. ... In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found" (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).

Council of Ephesus

"Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome], said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 431])
.
Sechnall of Ireland

"Steadfast in the fear of God, and in faith immovable, upon [Patrick] as upon Peter the [Irish] church is built; and he has been allotted his apostleship by God; against him the gates of hell prevail not" (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 3 [A.D. 444]).

Pope Leo I

"Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . has placed the principal charge on the blessed Peter, chief of all the apostles. . . . He wished him who had been received into partnership in his undivided unity to be named what he himself was, when he said: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18], that the building of the eternal temple might rest on Peter’s solid rock, strengthening his Church so surely that neither could human rashness assail it nor the gates of hell prevail against it" (Letters 10:1 [A.D. 445]).

Council of Chalcedon

"Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod, together with the thrice blessed and all-glorious Peter the apostle, who is the rock and foundation of the Catholic Church, and the foundation of the orthodox faith, has stripped him [Dioscorus] of the episcopate" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 451]).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004




Here is my little spiel,

God gives the fullness of His love through the church, therefore through His chosen rock, Peter.

But God also realises that many may not be as fortunate as to be given this knowledge and so as a Loving Father He provides for all.
He gives different levels of knowledge of himself according to the prophets of their religion. God loves and wants all of course to come to full knowledge of His love.

Therefore we are all called to do our little part. We are not called to do the impossible but very lucky to have been given the truth.

That is why Mary calls for prayer.
Mary Mother of all humans pray for us.

I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
John 17:20-23

Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant. (Prayer in silence. Then the priest says:) Almighty and eternal God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity. Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.[17]

AMEN

 

If all religions are true, no religion is true.

 

I’ve come to realise that I seldom explain myself clearly

I believe like Saint Pope John Paul 11 that God the creator speaks to all people but also wants all to have the fullness of truth. God leads some people even over generations to this Fullness of truth which is the Catholic faith and these other beliefs that were held by former generations do possess some portion of truth.

For JP11, love was the key and he advocated uncompromisingly the need to give human beings the deepest value. And from this flowed everything. For example, his determination to restore respect for life: it was a matter of human rights, and a matter of obeying God's commandment not to kill. So he stood firm against contraception, abortion and euthanasia, and opposed the death penalty.

This was the philosophical source of his fierce anti-communism. For the Pope, communism was a tyranny that chopped down human freedom and saw people as mere resources to be used as the state saw fit; an attitude utterly intolerable to a man to whom each and every human being was an image of God.

When His holiness Saint Pope John Paul 11 visited Australia in 1986 he spent time in the Northern Territory visiting the very rural Australian Indigenous peoples where he gave a beautiful address to these beautiful people, very similar in context with His address given to the Native Americans in 1987 which I have copied below. I have highlighted the aspects that I was alluding to in regards to other faiths and religions.

MEETING WITH THE NATIVE PEOPLES OF THE AMERICAS
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS JOHN PAUL II

Memorial Coliseum, Phoenix
Monday, 14 September 1987

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
1. I have greatly looked forward to this visit with you, the original peoples of this vast country. I greet you with love and respect. And as I greet you, I wish to tell you how pleased I am to find among you one of your sons raised to the episcopate - Bishop Pelotte. I thank you for inviting me to be with you and for sharing with me some aspects of your rich and ancient culture.


I have listened to your concerns and hopes. As your representatives spoke, I traced in my heart the history of your tribes and nations. I was able to see you as the noble descendants of countless generations of inhabitants of this land, whose ways were marked by great respect for the natural resources of land and rivers, of forest and plain and desert. Here your forefathers cherished and sought to pass on to each new generation their customs and traditions, their history and way of life. Here they worshipped the Creator and thanked him for his gifts. In contact with the forces of nature they learned the value of prayer, of silence and fasting, of patience and courage in the face of pain and disappointment.


2. The early encounter between your traditional cultures and the European way of life was an event of such significance and change that it profoundly influences your collective life even today. That encounter was a harsh and painful reality for your peoples. The cultural oppression, the injustices, the disruption of your life and of your traditional societies must be acknowledged.

At the same time, in order to be objective, history must record the deeply positive aspects of your people’s encounter with the culture that came from Europe. Among these positive aspects I wish to recall the work of the many missionaries who strenuously defended the rights of the original inhabitants of this land. They established missions throughout this southwestern part of the United States. They worked to improve living conditions and set up educational systems, learning your languages in order to do so. Above all, they proclaimed the Good News of salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ, an essential part of which is that all men and women are equally children of God and must be respected and loved as such. This Gospel of Jesus Christ is today, and will remain forever, the greatest pride and possession of your people.



3. One priest who deserves special mention among the missionaries is the beloved Fray Junipero Serra, who travelled throughout Lower and Upper California. He had frequent clashes with the civil authorities over the treatment of Indians. In 1773 he presented to the Viceroy in Mexico City a Representación, which is sometimes termed a "Bill of Rights" for Indians. The Church had long been convinced of the need to protect them from exploitation. Already in 1537, my predecessor Pope Paul III proclaimed the dignity and rights of the native peoples of the Americas by insisting that they not be deprived of their freedom or the possession of their property (Pauli III, Pastorale Officium, 29 maggio 1537: Denz.-S. 1495). In Spain the Dominican priest, Francisco de Vitoria, became the staunch advocate of the rights of the Indians and formulated the basis for international law regarding the rights of peoples.

4. It is time to think of the present and of the future. Today, people are realizing more and more clearly that we all belong to the one human family, and are meant to walk and work together in mutual respect, understanding, trust and love. Within this family each people preserves and expresses its own identity and enriches others with its gifts of culture, tradition, customs, stories, song, dance, art and skills.


From the very beginning, the Creator bestowed his gifts on each people. It is clear that stereotyping. prejudice, bigotry and racism demean the human dignity which comes from the hand of the Creator and which is seen in variety and diversity. I encourage you, as native people belonging to the different tribes and nations in the East, South, West and North, to preserve and keep alive your cultures, your languages, the values and customs which have served you well in the past and which provide a solid foundation for the future. Your customs that mark the various stages of life, your love for the extended family, your respect for the dignity and worth of every human being, from the unborn to the aged, and your stewardship and care of the earth: these things benefit not only yourselves but the entire human family.


Your gifts can also be expressed even more fully in the Christian way of life. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is at home in every people. It enriches, uplifts and purifies every culture. All of us together make up the People of God, the Body of Christ, the Church. We should all be grateful for the growing unity, presence, voice and leadership of Catholic Native Americans in the Church today.


Jesus speaks of the word of God as the seed which falls on good ground and produces abundant fruit (Cfr. Matth 13, 4ss.). The seed has long since been planted in the hearts of many of you. And it has already produced the fruits which show its transforming power - the fruits of holiness. The best known witness of Christian holiness among the native people of North America is Kateri Tekakwitha, whom I had the privilege, seven years ago, of declaring "Blessed" and of holding up to the whole Church and the world as an outstanding example of Christian life. Even when she dedicated herself fully to Jesus Christ, to the point of taking the prophetic step of making a vow of perpetual virginity, she always remained what she was, a true daughter of her people, following her tribe in the hunting seasons and continuing her devotions in the environment most suited to her way of life, before a rough cross carved by herself in the forest. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the great gift of God’s love, is never in contrast with what is noble and pure in the life of any tribe or nation, since all good things are his gifts.


5. I would like to repeat what I said at my meeting with native peoples at the Shrine of Saint Anne de Beaupré during my visit to Canada in 1984: "Your encounter with the Gospel has not only enriched you; it has enriched the Church.


6. One day Jesus said: “The thief comes only to steal and slaughter and destroy. I came that they might have life and have it to the full” (Io. 10, 10).

Surely, the times has come for the native peoples of America to have a new life in Jesus Christ - the new life of adopted children of God, with all its consequences:

A life in justice and full human dignity!

A life of pride in their own good traditions, and of fraternal solidarity among themselves and with all their brothers and sisters in America!

A deeper life in charity and grace, leading to the fullness of eternal life in heaven!

All consciences must be challenged. There are real injustices to be addressed and biased attitudes to be changed. But the greatest challenge is to you yourselves, as Native Americans. You must continue to grow in respect for your own inalienable human dignity, for the gifts of Creation and Redemption as they touch your lives and the lives of your peoples. You must unyieldingly pursue your spiritual and moral goals. You must trust in your own future.

As Catholic Native Americans, you are called to become instruments of the healing power of Christ’s love, instruments of his peace. May the Church in your midst - your own community of faith and fellowship - truly bear witness to the new life that comes from the Cross and Resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

© Copyright 1987 - Libreria Editrice Vaticana

 

This is an interesting conversation. I, as many of you, went through a huge conversion in a 24 hour period. I immediately started to truly seek God through reading the Bible. I was raised Catholic, but did not want to just BE Catholic because I was raised Catholic, or because some human told me so. I wanted to really be in Jesus' true church. It was reading the whole Bible that brought me back to His Church, and after I came back and went to confession, and truly gave my life to Jesus, that He Himself confirmed to me that the Catholic Church was where He wanted me to be. Many people I've noticed, just aren't interested in TRULY finding Christ. They are too comfortable in where they already are. This goes for secular people along with protestants. My take on the Pope's statement was how I kind of feel about it. You can't convert people who have no interest in it. You can pray for them, and do your best if they want to talk about it, but as you all probably know, we can argue for days with protestants and never get anywhere but disturbed in our peace. Jesus did not go running after people begging them to be disciples. He told them the truth, healed them and loved them, and then went on His way. Many followed but few stayed. In the end, after He told them about the Eucharist, only the 12 were left, and I find that is still true today.

 

The illumination will change everything. It will turn us all into evangelists and catechists for the true faith.