I also try to keep in mind who Francis' audience is. In that interview he was not speaking to us believing Catholics. He was addressing an atheist. Someone who had willfully rejected belief in God. I have spent some time in dialogue with atheists and agnostics. You have to speak to them on their level in terms that they can understand and relate to. Otherwise you are just talking past each other. You have to find some common foundation that you can build on (or more accurately, that the Holy Spirit can build on). I see Francis doing this with his reference to the Good and following one's conscience. Actually getting an atheist to accept that "Good" exists and our conscience is a generally reliable guide to it (natural law inscribed on our heart) is a huge step towards belief in God. In many ways we today face a harder task in re-converting the West than the early Christians faced in converting the Roman Empire because at least most pagan Romans accepted the idea of there being gods and the existence of an absolute Good. Your typical materialistic atheist rejects objective goodness and evil and our conscience is just a blind result of the random forces of evolution.
When speaking to fellow believers Pope Francis can give us meat, not the milk he has to offer atheists. Like his encyclical on faith or this from yesterday's audience: "In the Creed, we confess our faith that the Church is “holy”. But how can we say that the Church is holy when she is all too evidently made up of sinners? Saint Paul helps us to see things aright when he tells us that “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, to make her holy” (Eph 5:25-26). The Church is inseparably one with Christ, and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. It is not ourselves, or our merits, which make the Church holy, but God himself, through the infinite merits of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. God calls all of us, as sinners, to be redeemed, renewed and made holy in the communion of the Church. So the Church constantly welcomes everyone, even the greatest sinners, to trust in God’s offer of loving mercy, and to encounter Christ in the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist. Let us not be afraid to respond to Christ’s call, to trust in the working of the Holy Spirit and to pray and strive for that holiness which brings true joy to our lives."
I added this to the 'Spirit Daily' thread but it might be of some relevance here too. I admit to continue to feeling very disturbed about many things that the Pope has said while acknowledging that is has certainly not all been 'bad news. In this latest interview he praised the deceased Jesuit Cardinal Martini who was reputed to be the most 'liberal' prelate in the Church (at least I hope that there aren't any more liberal than he was!). Martini also liked to communicate through interviews and books rather than official documents and had a reputation for being 'subtle and opaque' (ring any bells?). He wrote one book damning 'Humanae Vitae' which he considered to be damaging to those trying to live Christian lives and to the Church and the World. He wanted women priests, an end to mandatory celibacy and all the other usual items on the liberal 'shopping list' and said that the Church was 200 years behind the times (or the world, I suppose). When the Pope praised Martini, he provided a clear signal that will be taken up by those who share the Cardinal's views. I'm sorry but I regard this signal as unmissable to Martini's 'fans'. Interestingly the Pope, in his recent 12,000 word interview quoted Martini without mentioning his name when he queried the need to deny Communion to a woman who was married then divorced and re-marred happily. If you read Martini's last interview, you will see exactly the same circumstances described although the Pope also added an abortion to the story in his own interview. http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/209045?eng=y
The spontaneity of Pope Francis has prompted him to freely use the press in an unprecedented way. He is not carefully articulating his thoughts in an encyclical; therefore his teaching has a greater chance of appearing muddled. Obviously, the media will twist this as they choose. I honestly believe that the Vicar of Christ has chosen a shaky platform and should exhibit more caution! But as Fr. Barron points out, when asked in this interview to explain who he is, our Holy Pontiff replied: "I am a sinner, who has has been looked upon by the gaze of Christ." AMEN to that! Humility is the best of foundations! He loves you Mary. Watch over him. Safe in the Barque of Peter.
I know the Locutions.org site is controversial here, but I thought it would be interesting to revisit these messages from back in February about the next Pope to follow Benedict. Feb26 4. A Pope For All Nations The Resignation As A Sign Jesus Because I open my heart to all nations, to all cultures and to all peoples, I will raise up a pope for all the nations. All will see in him a hope for salvation and a deliverance from the worldwide darkness that will soon envelope the earth, a darkness of confusion, doubt and, at times, even of hysteria and self-destruction. These will be the forces that will soon be unleashed. Before that happens, I will set in place a pope who will speak my word and release the powers of the kingdom. He will not teach in his own name nor bring forth human wisdom. He will speak my word, exactly as I have trained him to do. Mary Now that the time is so close I will reveal the deep secrets of my heart, kept hidden for so long. I have prepared this pope by the greatest of graces. I have fashioned him in the darkness of my womb and soon, so very soon, I will bring him into the light of day. Upon him shall be the anointing of Jerusalem, because that is where he will go and there he will end his days in the papacy. He already knows my plan and will fulfill it just as I have laid it out before him. He will not swerve, to the left or to the right. He will discern all the world events, for himself and for the Church. He will raise his voice like no other pope because the Spirit of the Lord is upon him. When the years of his short papacy are completed, the seeds of new life will be planted. His papacy will prepare the Church for all that will follow in this third millennium. Feb27 5. The Messenger Pope The Resignation As A Sign Jesus How much time has been lost. The gifts of God set aside. So many times I have spoken to my servants, the prophets. I have given them heavenly messages for all the world to hear. I entrusted these messages to my Church, my bride. To whom else would I given them? She has come forth from my side. She is the new Eve. I would not give these messages to another. I want my bride to be exalted. Yet, how haltingly she accepts my words. Years go by and she does not see the treasure lying in her very bosom. She delays and delays. She keeps hidden what should be proclaimed on the housetops. No more. The time is too short. The need for my prophetic word is too pressing. I can no longer just send messengers. I must send a pope who himself is the messenger. To him I will speak, directly, heart to heart, even face to face. All the world will know that this pope is a prophet to the nations. Mary For so long I have kept this future pope in my bosom, hidden from the nations, yet called to be their light. I have trained him in my word and he has frequently brought it forth. He is no stranger to prophecy. He understands the gift. He is familiar with my voice. Know that I am raising up much more than just a pope. I am lifting up a prophet to the nations. All the world will listen because he will not just speak a word of wisdom but a clear prophetic word. He is not shy or bashful. He will not hide the gift. He will not be lifted up to place the lamp under a bushel basket. He knows where my word belongs. Suddenly, a new light will shine forth, a surprise, a new help for my children who are so confused by the darkness of the world. I will raise up this pope and prophet for my little ones who believe that I can speak directly to them.
I WILL RAISE UP THIS POPE AND PROPHET FOR MY LITTLE ONES WHO BELIEVE THAT I CAN SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THEM. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes! This Pope is the most incredible gift from God; one which we do not deserve. He is showing us how to evangelize (and how many are converted by dogma?), he is showing us how to shepherd a flock, and he is showing us how a committed Christian behaves. Micah 6:8 You have been told, O mortal, what is good, and what the LORD requires of you: Only to do justice and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with your God.f All the energy that is being expended in teasing his words apart would be so much better spent fueling his mission with prayer.
I must confess Terry that I have probably only read two Papal Encylicals in my life, Pacem in Terra ( Peace on Earth) by John 23rd which I love and which has been set to music..and Humanae Vitae by Paul v1..which I also love. Most Catholics if they are honest would rather watch paint dry than read a Papal Encyclical. Well at least if they are like I am. However the whole world gapes at the Popes famous interviews. I admit though the Holy Father makes me feel so inadequate. He reminds me of how little I myself do. He is so idealistic and dynamic he makes me feel well old and stuffy inward looking and pale. There are three dimensions to our Faith. The inward one to the heart. The ladder to heaven and God. Finally the one that reaches out to others. The Holy Father excels at this. He says he could not live without others. He is such an Apostle. I felt so down in the dumps about my failings in this third dimension I was praying about it the other morning on the way to work and felt the Lord say to me, 'Padraig you are a good person'. This sounds a very basic thing to say but I was so down it cheered me up. Following the Pope's lead then I have been praying if the Lord has anything else besides the forum He wants me to take a swing at. But silence as yet. You are so Blessed to have your vocation as a Deacon Terry, you will not go to heaven empty handed, neither of course will the Pope. This Pope challenges me. He really, really does.
Padraig - if my dream of you traveling and helping to convert thousands comes true- you may be in for a wild adventure ! ;-)
SteveD, you bring up excellent points and I cannot refute them. You are much more well versed on these issues as well. The only thing I can say is that I am choosing to go with the pope and see where all this leads. I think we see very small snippets of information but there is so much going on behind the scenes. From the sound of it, this pope is really shaking up the Vatican establishment (which is probably needed). And, if the Holy Spirit is truly guiding this pope (which I believe), not all things are going to be made clear to us soon or even at all. I'll pray for pope Francis and wait.
Amen. I can't explain it, but I have the deepest sense of peace when I start my morning rosary and my first 3 Hail Marys are for our 'two Popes', as I like to think of them. A big smile spreads across my face and if I could hug them I would. I feel an enormous sense of gratitude, of how blessed we are that we have them both, and a strong feeling that all is well.
If I can explain further: I know very well all is not well in the Church and the world. I mean I have no worries about what Pope Francis is doing, I'm sure he is guided by the Holy Spirit and I look forward to what he does next! Just about everyone I know in real life no longer cares about the Church, except to have contempt for it, or at least indifference. They are all leading lifestyles at odds with Church teaching and believe the Church doors are very firmly slammed in their faces. Divorced, cohabiting, using contraception etc. The Church, as they see it, cannot have them. Just about EVERYONE I know. I pray for them, but how are they to be reconciled with the Church?
Now, I don't want to see Church teaching, which cannot be changed, changed. I'm just curious as to how he will reach out to them - EVERYONE I KNOW!
Kriz... I was everyone you know just as of February and God brought me back to the church through a Baptist friend of mine. I was a Christmas and Easter Catholic most of my life and then got mixed up in New Age ideas for about 6 years. Now I am completely devout. I go to church as much as I can which is usually 3 times a week. I say the rosary every day and chaplet of divine mercy. I go to confession once every week or 2. I spend most of the day reading or on this board and now I am trying to discern what I can do for others and let God's will be done in my life. I say all this not as a look at me and all I do but as to give some hope for everyone you know because I was one of them. I believe this pope is beginning to speak to everyone you know in a way they need to be spoken to. I believe he is trying to prepare the world for what is to come probably rather soon. How will they be reconciled with the church? Well the door is being opened and God will surely reconcile them and all of us when we stand before Him and He illuminates our souls. When this happens, I hope and pray that many make it through the purification and come running back to the church that so many have left. This pope is softening hearts and letting the light back into the darkness of everyone you know. I pray that God's will be done and that this softening will help us when we stand before Him and see what our sins have done. I pray for this great gift of mercy to come soon and for the preparation of souls to be able to endure it and to humble themselves before our great God.
