EXPLOSIVE FILM REIGNITES ‘TWO POPES’ DEBATE

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by Richard67, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

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    This is my favorite psalm and the one I've had in mind throughout this whole discussion.
     
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  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    Many spiritual treatises have been written about undue curiosity. It’s not without reason that there is that old saying: curiosity killed the cat.
    But some people dig in their heels and insist on their right to know everything.
     
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  3. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

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    The above psalm goes on: "But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a child at its mother's breast; like a child that is quieted is my soul.

    O Israel, hope in the Lord, from henceforth and forever."

    I memorized this poem as a teenager because I've always had the tendency to get riled up or anxious about things, thinking I need to fix things and make them right for myself and others. As the oldest child in a very dysfunctional family, I often felt the world was on my shoulders....that the spiritual and physical well-being of my much younger siblings depended upon me.

    The closer Christ drew me, though, the more I realized that I am only a child myself. It is God who comes to our rescue. The world is on HIS shoulders, not mine, and when I am trusting Him as I ought, there is a certain peace that can't be shaken by how topsy turvy or unjust the world is. Yes, even when there appears to be a great crisis within our Church and bishops and cardinals oppose each other and the pope says disturbing things, there should still be the peace that comes from knowing God is God and can be trusted with our whole hearts. "Like a child at its mother's breast." The beating of Christ's heart should be so loud in our ear that all else is a distant noise. He will guide each one of us to do our part to help Him save souls, and we can rest assured that His guidance does not come through fear, agitation, or disturbance. His voice is quiet and peaceful in our hearts. So if we're disturbed, we should take time to repose on Christ and remember the battle is His. This world is not on our shoulders.
     
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  4. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    He’s a member of the hierarchy. He’s a Pope, Brian. Of course we oppose evil and heresy. No question. But that quote is not applicable to this current situation at all. Our Lady told us what we needed to know at Akita.
    “Brother Bugnolo” has his own mission and I find him and his motives questionable at best. Look at the people who are championing this so-called cause. You seem to have made up your mind. Be careful, Brian. This might add greatly to troubles. Never trouble trouble until
    trouble troubles you.
     
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  6. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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    I believe he is the pope although I don't rule out the risk of him being condemned by the Church if he doesn't repent, in fact we have to consider that the year dedicated to St. Joseph is invalid if he is an Antipope, the same applies to canonizations.
     
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  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    Back then, laypeople had no immediate way of knowing what was going on in the hierarchy.
     
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I came across a lovely quote today from

    The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians

    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0106.htm

    Chapter 2. Be subject to the bishop, etc

    For, since you are subject to the bishop as to Jesus Christ, you appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order, by believing in His death, you may escape from death. It is therefore necessary that, as you indeed do, so without the bishop you should do nothing, but should also be subject to the presbytery, as to the apostle of Jesus Christ, who is our hope, in whom, if we live, we shall [at last] be found. It is fitting also that the deacons, as being [the ministers] of the mysteries of Jesus Christ, should in every respect be pleasing to all. For they are not ministers of meat and drink, but servants of the Church of God. They are bound, therefore, to avoid all grounds of accusation [against them], as they would do fire.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    St Ignatius of Antioch was a really Early Church Father, coming about 70 years after the death of Christ and himself a disciple of St Polycarp who was himself a disciple of St John the Evangelist.

    So you could say he is a direct grandchild of the Apostles.

    But it says so much about the Hierarchical nature of the Church as set up by Jesus Himself. That we as lay people are the Spiritual Children of Spiritual Fathers in a line that goes back in a direct line to the Apostles. We are subject to them as children. That's the way God set things up and He did so for His own good reasons.

    This Hierarchy established by Jesus and the Apostles and maintained by the Church Fathers has very real consequences on what we can and cannot do as Catholics...

    The Pope is the Pope no matter how wicked and evil he may be and the Cardinals and Bishops no matter how evil they may at times happen to be sit in the Chair of the Apostles.

    There is nothing new in any of this. We have had bad Popes before and we will have bad Popes again, no doubt. But, apart from praying and doing Penance for them , they sit in the Apostles places and we do not. So that is that.

    Personally in my own Spiritual Life I have found it counter productive to dwell too much on their various Nefarious goings on. They are what they are.

    (Big sigh).

    I have found it much more productive to point the finger at my own failings, rather than theirs. What else can you do?

    '..without the bishop you should do nothing, but should also be subject to the presbytery, as to the apostle of Jesus Christ, who is our hope, in whom, if we live, we shall [at last] be found.'
     
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  10. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

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    "Hence the saying of Bellarmine: a doubtful pope is no pope. 'Therefore,' continues the Cardinal, 'if a papal election is really doubtful for any reason, the elected should resign, so that a new election may be held. But if he refuses to resign, it becomes the duty of the bishops to adjust the matter, for although the bishops without the pope cannot define dogma nor make laws for the universal Church, they can and ought to decide, when occasion demands, who is the legitimate pope; and if the matter be doubtful, they should provide for the Church by having a legitimate and undoubted pastor elected. That is what the Council of Constance rightly did.'"
    (The Church of Christ: An Apologetic and Dogmatic Treatise, By Rev. E. Sylvester Berry, Page 229, Note 8: Bellarmine, "De Concilio, ii, 19)
     
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    Right. It’s the duty of the BISHOPS.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    If however there does occur a chance to do something within our competence as lay people as lay people, well then we should certainly do it.

    There is a good example of this from the life of St Padre Pio. St Padre Pio's Archbishop, the Archbishop of Mafredonia was a well know pervert, well protected by his friends in the Vatican ( a kind of Cardinal McCarrick of his day . On one occasion a mob locals broke into his Palace and broke his nose, beating him up for molesting altar boys from the town.

    Originally this guy was all in favour of Padre Pio. But one day he went to confession with the saint and Padre Pio shouted at him and he went running from the Confession Box with his tail between his legs.:D:D

    But from then on it was war to death from this Arch pervert and his fellow perverts in the Vatican against Padre Pio. Padre Pio for his part just went quiet and obeyed.

    But this did not mean that Padre Pio was a pushover. On another occasion the guys in charge of the Capuchin Order had lost all their money on a speculative gamble and came to Padre Pio looking to steal all the money he had to build a hospital. Padre Pio shouted at them and sent them running.

    The thing is , if we have a chance to act, we act. But complaining about things we cannot change. Well what's the point?

    I have no Authority over Pope Francis, the Cardinals and Bishops, but Christ has given them authority over me. If Jesus wants to reverse this, well let Him.

    Till then, what's the point of making a fuss about things we can do nothing whatsoever about?

    I think Our Lady's attitude to Judas would be a good thing to meditate on here. She must have know he was no good.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  13. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

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    That is an excellent point about Mary and Judas.
     
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  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Mother Angelica was truly wonderful. What a saint for our times...

     
  15. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    (y):cool::love::ROFLMAO::coffee:

    For me, the most beautiful instruction Mother Angelica gives from this passage in John 9 occurs at the 34:30 mark:

    You and I may suffer much from the ridicule, sarcasm, persecution from others...(Jesus knows)...It's not important that we be justified.

    Yes, Jesus knows!

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I love Terry the simple humanity of this great saint, sent at just the right moment for our times.

    Like so many of us she was red pilled and discovered a snake squirmed right inside beside her in her bed.

    What was her bed? Why it was her beloved Mother the Catholic Church. What was the snake that squirmed in beside her? Heretical Modernism even in the highest places.

    Her human reaction a huge anger and indignation. But coupled with this great courage and determination to do a fight back with all her might.

    If she were alive today would would her reaction be when things are a hundred times worse? I am sure a hundred times more courage, a hundred times more anger and indignation a hundred times more determination to get things fixed.

    What a God arranged paradox, this humblest of little nuns winding up with far, far more influential power through her TV network than even the most powerful clerics that opposed her.

    She lived in her days A great Sign of hope to all of us. A Modern Moses leading us onward and upward.

    One feisty lady and great saint, may she pray and intercede for us in heaven as the Great Battle here below rages.

    [​IMG]


     
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  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    Obedience is such a lost virtue, isn’t it?
    It fosters lawlessness in Church and society and it destroys family life. :(
     
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  18. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    (The laity) are, by reason of the knowledge, competence or outstanding ability which they may enjoy, permitted and sometimes even obliged to express their opinion on those things which concern the good of the Church.
    —Lumen Gentium, #37
     
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  19. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    With discernment and prudence
    It’s not what my students in the 70’s called “wide open”
    Does some of the stuff posted foster the good of the Church?
     
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  20. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

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    We currently have two men dressed in the Papal white calling themselves Pope. One calls himself Pope "Emeritus", an office which does not exist in reality - you are either Pope or you are not Pope; if you are not Pope you go back to being whatever you were before being Pope. The fact that Pope Benedict continues to wear the Papal white, continues to include the term "Pope" in his new title, continues to live at the Vatican, continues to give Papal blessings, etc...all this should serve as a giant red flag to Catholics given that there is such a thing as "Visibility" as regards the Papacy. Nevermind the fact that the "resignation" occurred under extremely suspect political and canonical circumstances. Nevermind that there have been numerous antipopes throughout Church history. Nevermind that numerous Catholic private revelations have prophesied exactly what we are seeing play out today.

    Since the Bishops have failed us in resolving this issue and have buried their heads in the sand, it is up to the laity to keep this issue alive until it is resolved.

    It is also interesting to note that everytime in Church history that an antipope reigned, the civil, secular society was plunged into lawlessness and chaos. We have recently lived through the two greatest acts of secular lawlessness, usurpation and deception in Western history: the Scamdemic and the 4-year long soft (and sometimes hard) coup against a sitting U.S. President culminating in the blatantly-stolen 2020 U.S. Presidential election.
     
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