‘Scandal,’ ‘bomb,’ ‘cruelty’: Tradition-loving Catholics react to Pope’s Latin Mass restrictions

It's interesting, I did not see the Priest's name identified. But I do see that Parish identified, St. Augustine Church. St. Augustine merged with Holy Trinity Church and that is said in the video. Home - Holy Trinity and St Augustine Catholic Church (holytrinitysspmn.org)

Good video. That's a real keeper, worth watching a few times.

It's a bit of a brash statement.

 

If enough good Catholics want the TLM, I believe the church should take note. The Holy Spirit does speak through the people as well.

Peace
Mark

 

I know this priest.
I know this parish.

When I was called back to the Church by Our Blessed Mother 26 years ago, I searched for a Church with first Saturday devotions.

This was the parish that offered it along with another great parish, St. Agnus.

Every first Saturday a packed huge church with the most reverent, prayerful parishioners possible. It was the providence of God that lead me there. My geographical parish was run by a bunch of spirit of Vatican 2 nutcases. My faith would have been a wreck had I only experienced the Church there... after having my conversion experience. "Liturgical dance" , protestant homilists etc. and much worse.

I am so grateful to God that he led me there. I was struggling with the church's teaching on contraception. A priest from a different parish basically said it could be allowed, (using convoluted, nuanced reasoning)...He should have been a Jesuit. A call to the canonical administrator of the Archdiocese was in substantial agreement.

Then I met Fr. Z at St Augustine. (Yes, that Fr. Z) He was appalled at the advice I had been given. "NO, IT IS A SERIOUS SIN!" I credit his straightforward way of calling a sin a sin with giving me the courage to give up the sin...Which, I believe, eventually saved my marriage.

Many saintly priests came from that parish, including a solid Bishop. All of the Masses at this parish NO and TLM are reverent.

I do not attend the TLM, but I have great respect for those that do. And it is scandalous how the Catholic Church has treated traditional Catholics for 50 years.

 

I'm not in pain. I go to a reverently offered NO in a church with an altar rail where I can kneel to receive Communion either in the hand or on the tongue. I am very annoyed to see faithful Catholics being treated like a disease which must be eradicated simply because they have a preference for the TLM. Using the example of a tiny minority of extremists to infer that the entire group must be kept at arm's length to justify discriminating against them is a nasty tactic which says more about those using it than those they want to exclude. That tactic should be beneath anyone calling himself Catholic.

The so-called rad trads have been pushed around for the past fifty-odd years, going from pillar to post in search of a place to assist at the sacred liturgy which for centuries had been considered by the Church to be the highest form of worship. I don't blame them for feeling persecuted as they watch all sorts of allowances being made for groups that openly dissent from Church teaching.

Backed by the world's most powerful and richest individuals, businesses, politicians and organisations, the favoured, purportedly marginalised groups do not remotely fit the description of victim, underprivileged or marginalised, yet the Church fawns all over them while indulging in victim blaming of the faithful tradition loving Catholics. It's a disgrace, and disheartening to see other Catholics jumping on the bandwagon with their anecdotes of rare incidents of extremist behaviour.

 

Pope Francis is straight-jacketed by ideology. He is more a slave to ideology than he is to the Gospel, a political Pope, a secular Pope.

He has shot himself in the foot by restricting the TLM by using a sledge-hammer to crack a nut. He has shown himself to be a demagogue - out of touch with reality like a frustrated monarch stuck in a tree angrily sawing off the branch that he is sitting on. Many bishops will simply ignore his moto proprio since he is an old man on the way out and they realise that he is in the last stages of his pontificate.

As his pontificate draws to a close his is a legacy of frustration and failure. His last throw of the dice to attack the TLM indicates that this is so.

 

Yesterday the phrase came to me "killing a mosquito with a sledge hammer"--similar thoughts to yours. Prayerfully watching this play out. Waiting on Our Lady...

 

The holy Archbishop, a strong, fearless warrior. May his guardian angel protect him, may St. Michael come to our aid. I recommend listening to this word by word.

 

It's Agnes not Agnus and many churches have First Saturday devotions. Now, a real First Friday night vigil, all night, naybe even 10 hours or more, are quite extraordinary. Those are usually sponsored by the Blue Army. Yes, and St. Augustine has had them.

And even, if we disagree with a priest, we should be respectful of what we say about them and how we say it.

But yes, thank you for your answer, that does appear to be Father Z. You are correct.

Here is a St. Agnes Latin Mass:

Mass (boxcast.tv)

St. Agnes is well-known nationwide, whether people know it here or not. Their singing and so on.

They have that, Requiem Mass or whatever it is called I believe for all souls day.

 

Pope Francis is 84 years old and with all due respect, I think we could easily see Him as the Pope for a number of years more. Popes, notoriously are older men. It's not like that is my preference, I'm just being realistic.

 

Brilliant words....

 

Yes, this would be lovely. And yes, much prayer is needed,

 

Excellent post. There is plenty of unpleasantness on both sides of this liturgy dispute. I have seen it in many a NO Mass--especially raucous conversations before Mass that disturb others trying to pray.
We are like Israelites in the desert going round and round carping at each other and grumbling to God about all the things we don't have. And never finding the Promised Land even though the Sinai desert is at most 40 miles long. 40 years to go 40 miles!!!! Building golden calves along the way. I do not exempt myself from this. I see so much ingratitude in my own soul it sickens me. Truly if it were not for Our Lady who is our pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night we would be so hopelessly disoriented we would never keep on the narrow way. Rosaries rosaries rosaries!!!!

 

I guess it could be said being referred to as a rad trad may be similar to being called a white supremacist.
Anything to cause division when it comes to the modernist or globalists

 

Agree! We are either Catholics or we are not. This constant sorting of people and then naming them by factions ia so divisive. It tears at the Mystical Body.

 

"Rad Trad", I've hardly ever heard that term. "White Supremacist"? Nay, for me. Nothing is worse than being accused of racism n these days at least.

"Rad Trad" sounds like painting someone as extreme in their views.

Must We Call Them Rad Trads?


To use “Mad Rad Trad” as a category for the extremist end of the traditionalist movement is not to throw stones at all traditionalists. In fact, it helps to defend, support and define the worthy traditionalist movement–the one which is made up of a majority of good, faithful, well intentioned Catholics who are helping the whole church in the “reform of the Reform” and are doing so with intelligence, wit, patience, obedience and faith.

If you are a traditionalist, then my advice is be a radical Catholic, but not a radical traditionalist. Love the traditional ways, support and promote them, but remember the bigger picture. The bigger picture is the whole mission of the Catholic Church. The whole mission of the Catholic Church is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ to a needy world. The whole mission of the Catholic Church is to reach out to the needy with the love and healing ministry of Christ. The whole mission of the Catholic Church is to sanctify the people of God and lead us in the paths of holiness. The whole mission of the Catholic Church is to live lives filled with the Holy Spirit which testify to the power and grace and joy that comes from knowing Christ.​

By all means be radical in these aims. Use the traditional teachings, devotions and liturgies of the church to do so. Reach out to the world and to other Catholics with joy and affirmation. The traditionalist movement is young and alive! Traditionalists have so much to share with the church, and they are doing so with great zeal, energy and faith. I say to traditionalists, don’t allow yourselves to be swept up into narrow minded little groups who point fingers of blame at everybody else. Don’t allow the angry or insane members of your group to speak for all.

Must We Call Them Rad Trads? - Fr. Dwight Longenecker (patheos.com)
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Patheos has suspect opinions but all the same, I think folks like Fr. Dwight Longenecker are rather solid in their preachings. I think extreme opinions exist on Patheos but they are on the fringe and because, it seems to me, more or less, I don't think it takes a lot to get published there. ​

The Rad Trad This fellow calls himself such, so I think the negative connotation is somewhat limited.
Repeating, per Father Longenecker:

If you are a traditionalist, then my advice is be a radical Catholic, but not a radical traditionalist.
​

From my view, some of whom may be called "Rad Trads" may not really have Catholic backgrounds.

I noted once, I attended an SSPX, a few actually. They had the customary picture of the Holy Father in the Church, then, JPII. Fine. Maybe they have Pope Francis there now, I do not know but there was like a table selling things and they did seem to sell "Sedevacantist" literature. Maybe there is a point where one needs to apply the brakes, SSPX actually should not allow people like that into their church to sell goods, well, in all likelihood. I don't want to sound like I am restricting free speech.

It's possible that a "Rad Trad" is exactly that and yes, I can see how the term is misused, it should not apply by any means to Church goers of the Latin Mass but I do think there are extremists per the faith and reposting, I'm not always sure they are that Catholic.

Library : Canon Law and Fr. Gruner's Suspension (a divinis) | Catholic Culture
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I like the Fatima Center and Father Gruner, however, I don't think one can be a total renegade. You can not be too slack in following protocol. Yes, unjust laws need to be rightfully and justly protested.

Suspension[edit]
In 1989 Gruner was ordered by Bishop Gerardo Pierro, his ecclesiastical superior, to return to Avellino, Italy, the diocese of his incardination. When he did not respond, Cardinal Innocenti, Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, wrote to warn him that failure to return would result in his suspension a divinis.[7][8] He did not undertake the action required of him. In 1994, the new Bishop of Avellino issued a decree declaring Gruner a vagus ("wandering") priest.[9] In 1996 Gruner was suspended from his priestly functions.[10] He appealed the suspension, but was unsuccessful.[11]

Nicholas Gruner - Wikipedia
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Same thing in mentioning that "Holy Family Monastery", even aside from the wikpedia article that was posted, there were things about them, I could not just remember, it's been awhile. But suffice it to say, there are probably a few to be a bit apprehensive of. I'm not vouching for this article, I have not read it thoroughly, but there are things out there and it should not be done in the name of the Holy Mother Church.

Will not post it, this group saying this seems a bit questionable as well.
​

I saw a term, something like "Independent Sacramental Movements", I don't know if categorically one says they are all bad but it does look like something to be careful and cautious of. It's not like anyone should set up shop and call themselves Catholic.

This is a bit of the crux of the matter, I am not sure it is always "Catholic" and this is not talking about FSSP or SSPX so much, there are others out there.

 

Here is a group I was not familiar with. Please remember, citing a webpage does not mean an endorsement, just a reference. But one of the commenters here says this group has been given some privileges from the Vatican...

The Rad Trad: A Word About the ICRSS

So, they have a seminary in Rome or something.







They appear admirably devout to me. That video is inspiring and yes, I'd say how it should be done...so hopefully, as the comment said, they do have some communion with Rome.

Back to the main theme, look, Protestant Fundamentalism and the Church of Latter Day Saints all have extremist sects it seems. Groups out west that may still practice polygamy, I'm not going to call them Mormons.

 

I was at a "Requiem Mass" (All Souls Day) and it was written I believe by one of the traditional classical music composers, Bach, Brahms, someone.... that was very good. This seems something like it. That was at St. Agnes.



This too, from Sacramento, assuming, California, very beautiful.



Culture, Tradition that we need. This second video is really something. Of course, it will not be in every Mass we have the accompanying music and such. It's like heaven on earth.

On-the-other-hand, I have attended Masses in Vietnamese, even if I did not understand the language, I actually got a very similar vibe, the people were so devout.

Not this one but it probably was something like this.



See, when the Mass was all in Latin, it meant you could go to Rome or Manila or anywhere in the world and it was all a Latin Mass. Universally, the same one. I may have been a toddler, I may have been to some pre-Vatican II masses.

I understand Pope Francis has backtracked on one decision he made, hopefully, he can on this.

 

That creates quite the image! Not much left of the wall on which the poor thing rested!

Safe in the Barque of Peter!

 

Thank you for the correction.

At the time of my conversion 26 years ago, I assure you, these were the only 2 churches in the twin cities metro that had 1st Saturday devotions. Many do NOW.

As to Fr Z, I mentioned him because I met him back then and he helped me. He was a visiting priest at St. Augustine at that time.

He is not the priest in the video. I know both Fr. Z and the priest in the video.

 

https://theliturgy.org/

Look at this! An awesome 3-part documentary on the Latin Mass is coming out starting on August 15!