‘Scandal,’ ‘bomb,’ ‘cruelty’: Tradition-loving Catholics react to Pope’s Latin Mass restrictions

So many people say these days that, 'Times are changed'. That Rules of Behaviour imposed by Scripture, are no longer acceptable to, todays, 'Cultural Norms'. But I wonder if this is not just another polite way of saying that the Word of God itself is no longer acceptable?

.and it is, as it always was and always will be, the Inspired Word of God.

The 1960's never changed that.

 

I suppose nobody would want to attract angry trads who condemn everyone who does not agree with them. The love of tradition has nothing to do with anger. Catholicism, by its very nature, is traditional.
If you would have a Traditional Latin Mass in your place, you would see holiness, peace, true reverence - a Mass that is truly sacrificial and God-centered.

 

Perhaps one day you will be among them You may have to hurry though. I would not get hung up on the head covering matter. I need to wear a suit to Mass to fit in here at my SSPX parish and really struggled with it initially. Then again, it is a holy thing to do, to give glory to God. After all, I wear a suit for client visits and God is surely more important than clients.

 

Yes, it never works to talk down to people or to debate. I take comfort in the fact that there are probably much more irreverent Novus Ordo Catholics than angry trads. Unfortunately, angry trads are problem, that much is clear. I agree, that fact should not be weaponized against the beautiful TLM, the Mass of the Ages.

 

https://rumble.com/vkmff9-breaking-...h-will-bring-new-world-religion-and-orde.html

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinio...er/?utm_source=top_news&utm_campaign=catholic

Viganò: Deep State and Church will bring new world religion and order

 

You don't want to attract "very angry Trads"? How very inclusive of you. Polls show that a majority - is it in the region of 70%? - of Catholics don't believe in the real presence. It is possible, therefore, that half or a majority of people attending any Sunday Mass are eating and drinking damnation upon themselves. Certainly more than a handful of angry rad Trads. Far, far more than half at Christmas Masses when the annual Catholics show up because, well, that's what Catholics do at Christmas. That's not counting those who reject the Church's teaching on sexual morality and the right to life.

Millions of sacrilegious Communions every Sunday, and possibly every day, yet those angry rad Trads are to be excluded. What are you afraid of? That they will upset the 50% or more who line up for what they believe to be a symbolic wafer, many of whom haven't been to Confession since their Confirmation. Yet, the people you don't want to attract are a tiny percentage who do believe in the Real Presence. Something doesn't seem quite right about that attitude.

Perhaps the failure of believing Catholics to make a real effort to defend the Holy Eucharist from sacrilege has been the main contributor to the growing apostasy in the Church. Most NO Masses today are quite different than the liturgical reforms agreed at Vatican 11, yet nobody accuses either the celebrants or assistants at those Masses of rejecting the Council. Easy to denounce a tiny minority as the world mocks them. Easy to roll out the welcome mat to the majority while toning down any discomfort at sacrilege because passing that off as mercy or inclusiveness is less stressful.

We're all about the marginalised these days but we're lying to ourselves if we deny the fact that lovers of the TLM are the truly marginalised in our Church. Their anger is not unfounded. Some of them step out of bounds expressing that anger but not nearly enough to warrant the vitriolic scapegoating of them - a tactic deliberately employed to deflect from far more serious problems. Those more serious problems have been allowed for decades to take root and spread like cancer with at best a half-hearted attempt by some Bishops to correct them and, at worst, active encouragement by other Bishops.

If you are blessed with a TLM in your church, a few angry Trads will be as nothing compared to the graces flowing from having a large majority of faithful Catholics reverently assisting at Holy Mass every Sunday. Better still to have it every day. Would that there were enough Trad Catholics to fill our churches at every Mass, but we won't see that unless and until the real problems in the Church are addressed and the real trouble makers are dealt with. Recalling the Pope's reaction to Cardinal Sarah's attempt to have the NO celebrated ad orientem, we are unlikely to see any significant improvement in the foreseeable future.

May the Lord have mercy on us all, and may He give us the grace to persevere through these trying times.

 

I don't think I have ever watched a man closer to tears as we see Archbishop Vigano in this video. Heartwrenching. God help us all.

He is saying it is time to take action and why, in my humble opinion. I hope no one would stoop so low as to call this desperate devoted Consecrated Servant of God a rad trad.

 

I think it is very important to remember Bishop Fulton Sheen used his humour in speeches he gave, this would not be while offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Holy Mass is the commemoration of THE SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT to Almighty God for the sins of humanity, suffered by Jesus Christ the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Nowadays I hear Priests refer even during Mass to the Sacrifice of reconciliation, even Sacrifice of conciliation whatever that is DURING THE MASS ITSELF. We always associated reconciliation with the Sacrament of Confession. The Atonement came when we united our offerings at difficult times with the sufferings of Jesus Christ in His lifetime. I have brought this up on the forum before; but no body seems to understand why I am deeply concerned for this apparent small change in the words at Holy Mass. It scared the heeby geebies out of me, and I though here comes the protestant understanding of what the Holy Mass truly is. And no one seems to get it.

It was always considered respectful for men to wear their Sunday best, and women to cover their flesh, and their hair in the presence of God. To be blunt it appears the sight of female flesh turns men on if you know what I mean, and Mass is not the place to display the female characteristics that keep the human race going, or so it appears.

We had a parish Priest who was a late convert to Catholicism, and a late vocation who was even shocked that anyone serving Holy Mass would turn up in trainers, instead of proper boys shoes. He thought this was a lack of respect for God and I believe he was right. My opinion so don't waste time excusing the modern indifference to how people present themselves before God at Holy Mass.

 

Perhaps it is not so good to talk about, 'Trads' and those who like the 1960's mass as two separate groups? We are all Catholics and the word , 'Catholic' means , 'Universal'. Where as the word, 'Diabolic', from the Greek means to divide or rend asunder.

I love the Old Mass and much prefer it. I also attend the 1960's mass on a regular basis because of my shift work.

St Paul warned about letting ourselves form into groups warning us that we all follow Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:4

God's Fellow Workers
…3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man? 4For when one of you says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men? 5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his role.…

 

I think this is one of the reasons I don't join the little groups after mass. Because they are a little groupy. I go to the mass for the mass, not inter Church politics.

By the way our Holy Father strikes me as the kinda guy who would start a fight in an empty house.

He is the origin of this , 'Gotta sort out the Rad Trad's ', nonsense.

...and it is nonsense.

 

I’m getting a little bit annoyed with the talk of some people speaking derogatorily about Rad Trads. Maybe because I’m having trouble sleeping. IDK but IMO, There are uncharitable people everywhere. In NO mass, in the TLM and probably in a Buddhist service. Everywhere.

I grew up with the NO mass and now go to both NO and TLM (with most Sundays me being at a NO mass) and find special moments in both. My preference has become the TLM but life doesn’t allow that.

‘I once was chased down in the parking lot after a NO mass by a woman who yelled at me for sitting in “her spot” at mass. I’ve had people stand right in front of me as I’m in a pew praying in church talking as if they are at a bar.

Whether someone comes to church in shorts or wears a veil during mass never bothers me. What bothers me is the walking by the tabernacle without kneeling or acknowledging the Lord, what bothers me is people who talk while others around them are praying, it’s people who scandalize others.

You never know how your behavior may effect someone else or even yourself . The woman who chased me down could have easily stopped me from returning to the Mass. When i started veiling (regardless of whether at the NO of TLM) it deepened my spiritual side by the outward sign of submission to Gods will.

People are People. And we are all sinful.

 

I will say this (and I’m not arguing the viability of either mass) but has anyone who is a NO (idk what’s the opposite of a Rad Trad for the NO) read the Rubrics of the Latin Mass? It is amazing and very rich with symbolism something that is not explained or in some circumstances no longer used at the NO mass.

One of the reasons I became interested in going to a TLM is during an oversea visit to another country I went to mass which was so heavily attended I couldn’t see the altar. Great! I should be happy the problem was the mass was said in a language I did not understand nor was I given a missal to even try to follow in that language. I only knelt when those in front of me knelt and only stood because those in front of me stood. I thought it was sad.
We are supposed to be the Universal Church and I didn’t have a clue what was going on because I didn’t understand the language . A universal church IMO should have a universal language

 

There's bad people everywhere.

Bad Carmelites.


Bad Fransicans

Bad Jesuits.

Bad Cardinals

Bad Bishops.

Bad Rad Trads.

..even, very, very occassionally bad lay folk with two dogs.

What are you gonna do?

Ban them all?

 

Although I must admit, personally at the moment,,,,,,,, banning Jesuits seems like a good idea.

Especially this one..

 

How about banning.. instead of ' Rad Trad's who simply want to have the Old Mass we had for the last 2,000 years??

Is that so wicked?>

It's just a thought...

German Bishops who want to , 'Bless' sexual perverts in supposed, 'Weddings' in their Cathedrals?

Would that be a really ,really radical idea?

Or I am being too Rigid and Judgemental?

Romans 1:24-27




24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6:10


…9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

 

Thank you for your response. I sense your anger and pain over this issue. I do think over time, both will be allowed. We are not a parish church, the people who come here for our masses are very devout. Some are trads, but find our mass prayerful. Some are very good friends of mine. Then we have had the misfortune of having a 'few' come and start trouble because they demanded that we do the Latin Mass. At this time we cannot accommodate them. I personally like the Norvus Ordo mass, but would also welcome the Latin when the atmosphere settles down. It seems we are fighting over everything today, in politics and religion.

You are right, much prayer is needed, prayer that all will come to the Lord of truth, love, and compassion.

Peace
Mark

 

The Tridentine Mass, also known as the Traditional Latin Mass, is the Roman Rite Mass of the Catholic Church which appears in typical editions of the Roman Missal published from 1570 to 1962.

The first language of Christian liturgy was Aramaic, the common language of the first Christians, who were Palestinian Jews. While Hebrew was the language of scripture and formal worship, Christian worship occurred in the home where Aramaic was spoken. The words Abba and maranatha are Aramaic.

Christianity quickly spread from Palestine to the rest of the world, and the Eucharist came to be celebrated in many languages, including Syriac, Coptic, and Armenian. In most of the Mediterranean world, the common language was Greek, which became the language of liturgy in that region and remained so until the early third century.

Eucharist itself is a Greek word, meaning thanksgiving. The phrase Kyrie eleison and the words liturgy, baptism, evangelize, martyr, and catechumen, among other familiar church words, are also Greek in origin.

From around the third century B.C., what we call “classical” Latin was the language of the Roman aristocracy and the educated classes. Around the time Jesus was born, during the reign of Augustus Caesar, the language began to change. The Roman aristocracy was destroyed by war and political infighting; when they disappeared, their language went with them. Classical Latin was replaced by a less refined version of the language.

In the third and fourth centuries A.D. this form of Latin began to replace Greek as the common language of the Roman world and soon became the language of the liturgy.

https://uscatholic.org/articles/201006/when-did-we-start-celebrating-mass-in-latin/

 

Tempers are rising here over ‘rad trads’. I don’t like the word, it’s an import from the USA and was never used elsewhere. I don’t personally know any. My understanding is that these people are a small minority of those who love the Tridentine rite and who PF uses as an excuse to ban the Mass of Ages. My father loved the old Mass and attended when he could. His theological views could be said to be of the cafeteria kind. A friend of mine who loves the Latin Mass told me about a family where the husband doesn’t work but expects his wife to homeschool, hold down a job and wait on him. This man’s wife came out of hospital after delivering her ninth child and was expected to cook his dinner. They attend SSPX masses. Perhaps the husband is a rad trad. I wouldn’t know. I believe passionately that both Masses should be available widely and I joined the Latin Mass Society a couple of days ago to show solidarity.

 

I sadly remember that! By the way, Whatever, a warm welcome to you. MOG is a wonderfully supportive group who love the Church and Our Lady; it's a wonderful refuge of prayer support.

O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!