Discerning Apparitions

Asked and answered, David.

 

The name of this thread is "Discerning Apparitions". I very much appreciated the discussion on the general guidelines for discerning the many spirits that are coming our way. I have always relied on St. Ignatius of Loyola but was happy to see other rules for discernment revealed here.

 

Yes, I thought you wouldn't want to specify who. Very mysterious.

 

Yes, you make a good point there djm. This is the place to be posting such rules. It's just I get a bit irritated when people spend a lot of time talking about such things, yet dismiss the wonderful apparitions of Our Lady in Medjugorje.

As I write this response, I've just remembered that Harper once mentioned she had been to Medjugorje. Maybe she believes?

 

I don't know your nature, David, other than what comes across in your posts.

I clicked on the new posts link on the forum, read the latest posts and responded with links to legitimate Catholic sources. Is that a crime on a Catholic forum? Does is imply that I'm obsessed with "rules" because I trust the criteria that the Church, with the benefit of 2000 years' experience of dealing with false and genuine apparitions, recommends?

I totally reject some apparitions/locutions/prophets being promoted on this forum. No doubt you accept some and reject others, so you must apply some set of rules to your discerning process. You, of course, are perfectly free to make up your own criteria, but they would be David's criteria. I trust the Church. One or two of those promoted here are more convincing than others but if they stray from the Church's guidelines in any way whatsoever, I dismiss them. This thread is about discerning apparitions, not about any particular apparition. Being interested in the criteria for discerning apparitions isn't something I feel the need to apologise for or explain to you or anyone else.

 

Yes we are and thank you! I just read your posting of the English translation of Professor Antonio Yague's writing.
The Blessed Mother speaks again of a celestial, the "Great Comet" (October 11, 2016) in the latest translated Light of Mary message. http://revelacionesmarianas.com/english.htm

 

In Charlie Johnston's latest blog post on the US election, he says, "Those who ask if I will declare myself a false prophet if the election proceeds Tuesday either are not actually aware of the specific language of the prophecy – or are just trying to foment mischief and confusion."

But who is confused?

FOR THE RECORD: Before he decided to revise his remarks on the election to include a transition period, Charlie had been quite certain an election would not be held. It was held yesterday, and there was a clear winner, and a concession.

Are people satisfied with Charlie's granting himself a do-over on his prediction? The only other "prophet" I remember who rewrites her messages is Vassula Ryden. Her statement that Jesus let her correct her writings was a big red flag for the Vatican, and surely contributed to the two negative rulings on her "messages" which were termed "private meditations."

From the transcript of Charlie's Birmingham talk July 9, 2015 (on his website):

Q: Would you say the next presidential election will be pivotal for the country?


C: I do not expect there to be a next presidential election. Politics is a dead man walking. We’ve got some other things coming. Now, I do not say there will never be another presidential election but I don’t expect there to be one. This next one we’re going to skip over because we’ll be in the midst of crisis.

From a Charlie Johnston MOG thread October 22, 2015:

FatimaPilgrim said: ↑

Charlie, another unrelated question for you that I thought about yesterday. Do you still think that Obama will not finish his term and that there will be no presidential election held next year?

That is a definitive statement and not subject to change, FP.

But holy cow, I say EVERYTHING is going to be upended and people here keep looking for who will be in charge based on the current system, which is going to be upended. Really?!

http://motheofgod.com/threads/someone-must-be-wrong.8202/page-2#post-105045

 

Harper, I know you desire very badly that your attacks on Charlie will be proven true, but you are off here. Let me answer since I'm the one that questioned Charlie here on the forum last year as you copied above.

If Charlie had changed his tune last week, or last month, or even 3 months ago as election day grew closer, then yes I'd feel that he was being disingenuous and that he was moving the goal posts and that would make me question him even more. But no, the facts are that 10 months ago before we even knew who the nominees would be for sure, he said this:

Charlie Johnston, January 8, 2016
I constantly go back to what I call “first things,” what I was told specifically or the larger, immutable principles that have been embedded in me, to re-examine my interpretations. I have often said there will be no presidential election this year. Actually, there are some narrow circumstances in which there could be, but the results would be irrelevant. What I was told was that President Obama would not finish his term and that our next stable national leader will not come from the election process. You could have an explosion of events after an election and before an inauguration. You could have Obama declare a national emergency, cancel elections, extend his term and then depart before the extension was up. The most likely scenario is that everything will be up in the air before election, but there are narrow circumstances where that may not be.

He has since said, even in the past couple of weeks, that if January 20th, 2017 comes and goes with Obama peacefully handing over the reins of power to either Hillary or Trump, that he himself will declare himself a false prophet and ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again. And you can gloat all you want then and I will come here to also declare him a false prophet.

If Hillary had won last night, I'd have a lot more questions this morning about Charlie, as it would be very likely that Obama would peacefully turn power over to Hillary, they are cut from the same Alinsky cloth and have the same goals to destroy our nation.

Instead, with Trump winning we are much closer to Charlie's prophecy coming true. Trump would uncover the depth of their corruption and there would be literal jail time in store for those in power. The entire establishment is against Trump. Democrats, Republicans, Media, Wall Street, Hollywood, all of them.

You will have your day, Harper, if January 20th comes and goes and we have President Trump. But instead, please consider and prepare yourself spiritually and physically that instead, it all will crash before then as the evil one is now cornered and his plans diverted with last night's results. he's not going to go quietly . . .

 

I see this as of a piece with the "last normal Christmas" statement (referencing 2013). Christmas 2014 was fine in the U.S. Charlie attempted to explain that it was a bad Christmas in many places in the world. But... it's always a bad Christmas somewhere, isn't it? As a prediction aimed at the US--his constant focus--it was a bust.

Just today Charlie tries to preempt criticism or a look at the record with his "mischief and confusion" statement. What's to misunderstand about his earlier comments? Now apparently we've entered the "narrow circumstances."

AS FOR GLOATING, FP, I have not forgotten the nasty comments you and the odious CrewDog hurled at me early on after I first asked questions about Charlie. No one has answered them yet. Want to try?

 

Good gravy. One last word of advice to you out of concern for you, ma'am. Please don't paint yourself into a corner so badly with your attacks on Charlie that when it comes to fruition you don't believe in his true mission, to proclaim the rescue in late 2017. You, me, all of us will need that hope when things are truly at their worst next year. God bless you, ma'am

 

I saw your post on the presidential election thread. Are you that desperate for Charlie's prophecies to pan out? Good gravy...

Charlie now has another big miss in his column, and you're still making excuses for him.

If something happens in 2017, I'll repeat what I've been saying all along. All we need is the Mass, the Rosary and lots of prayer. The ordinary Catholic way. We don't need Charlie and his grandiose failed prophecies or any of these multiplying like rabbits unapproved visionaries.

 

I do not believe Charlie's true mission is from God. No one, years into visions of the Blessed Mother and Jesus, would be a self-described "aggressive dater of the full-service variety." Or use the kind of language that he used online to describe people he disagreed with. Or countenance unauthorized penance services in connection with his public appearances (the archdiocese of New Orleans is investigating this).

Where is the wiggle room in " That is a definitive statement and not subject to change, FP."?

What can you tell me about his claims of friends in high places and expertise in journalism and politics?

Charlie Johnston is someone who makes a lot of big claims. Here's one from a MOG thread:
"I have on several occasions dealt with immediate seriously threatening situations and twice, rushed into serious danger to help people. Once, I stopped an attempted bank robbery in progress in central Illinois where a teller and a young woman vice-president were being held (Perhaps I'll tell the narrative sometime, but not now) and once, in Kentucky, rescued a young family from a car whose gas tank burst into flames near a McDonalds and got everyone inside safely covered. I thank God I have not had to kill anyone as some here have had to deal with."

Stopped a bank robbery in progress! Saved a family from a flaming car -- near a McDonalds, no less!
That's a lot of excitement in one life. Where is the factual support for these stories?

Maybe you remember Charlie's long sob story about his harassment by a newspaper chain out to get him because it opposed his political views. He claimed he settled a libel suit against the newspaper chain and as a result, the chain went out of business. Charlie failed to mention he had been the managing editor of the newspaper chain for a short time beforehand (starting in 1986) and that he left the paper under a cloud in a personal scandal. The chain (Lakeland Newspapers in Illinois) did not go out of business as a result of his libel suit; actually, Lakeland was acquired by a larger media company in 2005.

BTW, Charlie was involved in the campaigns of several candidates for Congress but none of his candidates made it to Washington. During the time he spent as a political consultant, he had to work as a car salesman to make ends meet.

My advice, FP, is to avoid making plans based on Charlie's predictions. Even if what he says is going to happen happens, it will not be because he is God's chosen instrument.

 

Very telling that the only time you post something is to attack Charlie. Why is that? That's a rhetorical question, FreshEggs . . .

No he does not have a big miss in his column and I'm not making excuses, simply stating the facts.

I'm not desperate for anything other than for God to help set this broken world right.

Don't paint yourself into a corner either, FreshEggs. If January 20th comes and the transition occurs I'll be the first one here to tell you he is a false prophet, sound fair enough? Your soul and the souls of those around you are more important than you being right. When it occurs, just remember to Trust God, Take the Next Right Step, and be a Sign of Hope to others and yes, daily Rosary and hopefully we will have the Mass and Sacraments during the chaos . . .

 

yes Harper, I and all who have read your multiple repeated rantings against Charlie understand your opinion.

If January 20th comes and Obama hands over power peacefully to Trump, I'll be the first one to say you were right and Charlie is false, deal?

 

I agree with everything you wrote except the Charlie parroting.

I too want a better world for my kids and their kids. But that's not going to get me to follow Charlie, ever.

There are too many inconsistencies with his person and mission. There's no need for me to rehash them.

Stay close to God. Go to Mass. Pray. That's all we can do.

 

Agreed. Apparently he didn't know the "angel" who he was communicating with until 15 years ago... Doesn't that send up red flags? How did that pass his spiritual director's notice?

 

I think you should just stop the concern trolling.

 

No offense to anyone, we love each other at MOG.

WCWTS explained, she said very well in the Antonio Yague Alert thread:

"The reason for the delay on that visible communion has been explained at length because Conchita had already received holy communion in church that morning. In those days it was not permitted receiving holy communion more than once in a day (as is now allowed in the Code of Canon Law in certain conditions). But you could say that Heaven knew that in advance, so failing to comply within the tame frame set by Heaven itself was the same as not fulfilled prophecy -and a prove AGAINST the seers and not on favor.

I offer this in the hope to be of help to expand our sense towards God's plans, and events, and how things are not going to be easy to discern except ON OUR KNEES and with a huge dose of humility, patience, and trust in God over and above every data we might gather.

I have to say that the same applies to me around Antonio's work. I've put many hours over several years watching his videos and reading his books. But I would not be surprised if he is completely off the mark. In any case I find his work of immense value because he provides a structure that helps us -me- to prepare for what is so hard to perceive just by reading Scripture or other things. I treasure his efforts and wisdom but I'm not caught into the need for him to be exact on dates and details to know that he is also a gift from God to help us negotiate the End Times."


Thank Heavens God keep speaking every day. We can't be so rejecting of the "yet to be approved" messages or the messengers. Our Lord explains what part of the Cross is for a messenger (prophet). Saved this, given to Lec of the Philippines, I am reposting it again, notice the underlined. Well, the entire message because Jesus repeats this very important Truth.


WORDS RECEIVED
September 1, 2007
7:05 AM
From the Lord Jesus
By Lec

This morning after the 6:00 am mass, I stayed behind
in the church in front of the Blessed Sacrament and
went on to complete my usual devotional prayers said
every morning. After saying all my prayers, as I am
wont to do everyday, I listened. I asked first God the
Father if He wants me to write anything from Him and
He said, None this time Son. Then I asked the Lord
Jesus. The first and last time I heard from Him was
way back in 1984. This year though, it has been the
Father whom I have been hearing. He started giving
me messages in full only this year although for the
last 10 years starting 1997 after completion of the
prayers to God the Father from the Visionary Barbara
Rose Centilli, the Father as He promised in the
message , began His personal manifestation thru the
spoken word but only in cryptic terms, meaning no
complete sentences.

Since the reception from Jesus is the first this year
and for assurance that it’s not the enemy of the soul
that speaks, I recited the exorcism prayer through
St. Michael, the Archangel, then the prayers through
St. Benedict, another exorcism prayer saying, IN
THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THROUGH THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY, ST. BENEDICT,
PLEASE EXORCISE ME OF ANY EVIL SPIRIT POSSESSION,
OPPRESSION AND INFLUENCE.

Beforehand, I have already recited the Apostle’s
Creed, the Lord’s Prayer and An Act of Contrition.
Then I invoked the covering of theMost Precious Blood
saying “LORD JESUS, PLEASE COVER ME WITH YOUR MOST
PRECIOUS BLOOD AND PLEASE PROTECT ME FROM THE ATTACKS
OF THE EVIL ONE.

By the way,I have already received communion that
hour and since I believe that the Lord in the spirit
is still with us within 15 minutes after reception of
the Holy Host, I endeavored to hear from Him but
making sure it’s really Him.

Then finally I spoke to the Lord saying, LORD JESUS
THROUGH THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY, YOUR SERVANT
LISTENS. I AM READY LORD.

Then in the stillness of my heart, I began hearing
thus:

I will not address you as Son for that is how my
Father calls you but let me refer to you instead as
“BROTHER”.

Brother, I know you can’t ever forget the first time
in your life when you heard me spoke to you and that
was many years ago yet that first occasion has left
quite a remarkable imprint in your heart that since
then through this very day has been serving to
nourish the faith that was born in your heart through
that short encounter with Me. Yes Brother, it was
unmistakably Me whom you heard.

Just a matter of importance I wish to impart through
you,, kindly take note. Brother, many people have
been excitedly expecting my Soon return to transform
life on earth into a glorious Paradise as I say that
truly it is the Father’s plan as revealed through the
Prophets. But why there seems to be a delay in the
actualization of the Father’s plan for humanity, so
many are wondering? Brother, let not your heart worry
a bit about the future near and far for the Father
has included in His plan the just provisions for
those whose hearts were given to do His will
manifested in His written word as well as on what is
naturally imparted in people’s hearts. His actions are
dependent on people’s reactions to His call, hence
because of His abounding mercy and compassion, as He
is the full essence of Love, timelines in the
unfolding of what is prophetically written do tend to
change. It is pathetic when prophesied events given
through consecrated souls do not happen as thus
declared and the messengers vilified for doing what
their heart s feel as our injunction, namely, to let
people know in advance so that they can prepare. I
grieve for these messengers when they suffer out of
obedience to their calling.

Please tell people not to be so hard on God’s
messengers if the events, especially the dire events
do not happen as thus stated, for as I have told you
earlier, God the Father’s heart is easily moved by
even the faint calls for mercy. He is not in a hurry
to render judgment. Certainly, He derives no pleasure
in that. But what is a little delay compared to
eternity, maybe just like a grain of sand on the
seashore or a drop of rain in a raging thunderstorm.

I hope people will understand why there is a delay in
the fulfillment of prophetic events especially for
those presaging the coming of the new Heaven and
earth. But remember also that the glorious era is to
be preceded by the days of woe and that is an
essential consideration why there is a delay. As
Prophesied, a great multitude will perish during
those times and will find themselves before us to
render an accounting of how they lived their lives.
The Father’s heart knows very well how many are
prepared for their judgment and how many are not,
how many will enter into the Father’s House and how
many will not make it. I wish not to burden your
heart anymore on this matter but simply share what
you have to help people in their journey. You will
not be asked to do beyond what your time, resources
and availability can contribute to heaven’s efforts
at giving enlightenment to those whose hearts will
open to the possibility of making it to my Father’s
kingdom.

Since no one on earth can exactly predict when I come,
it is incumbent on people to simply shift their
focus on preparing their soul for eventual entry into
eternity by taking each day that comes as the day of
my coming, hence, no surprise will ever grip their
hearts in an adverse manner. You know how it is to be
prepared for much has been given on this since eons
ago.

Prepare, tell them, not only because of my prophesied coming
could unexpectedly happen and catch people unaware,
but there is no denying the fact that a person’s eventual
meeting me in death could precede even earlier
what is written, hence, the scripture saying 'NOBODY KNOWS
THE DAY NOR THE HOUR'… which could be death or my coming.

Your Brother
Jesus

 

On Charlie Johnston I am in complete agreement FP. If those events occur I believe he will be getting a lot more respect here. I pray for DJT's safety.

 

I agree with FP here.

The forum is a great place for a chat.

You don't have to believe every unapproved 'messenger'. And you don't have to post the same thing over and over, FrshEggs and Harp.

I've mentioned this before...Try joining another thread. There's the election, the incoming planet, (one I am watching closely thanks to some great contributors) Consecration, Padraig's Birthday, general ominous signs, prayer requests and, if you have time, you can say hi to new members. Lots to do on MoG!!!

We like humour and friendly banter..