You are correct the Catholic Catechism states...... At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. —CCC, n. 1060 And St Pope John Paul II was quoting directly from the Catholic Catechism (1042 and 629) when he stated........ "This is our great hope and our invocation, ‘Your Kingdom come!’—a Kingdom of peace, justice and serenity, which will re-establish the original harmony of creation". —POPE JOHN PAUL II, General Audience, November 6th, 2002, Zenit Catechism of the Catholic Church 1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgement, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. the universe itself will be renewed: The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.629 Additionally the Catechism of the Catholic Church states....... 676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578 677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
Apparently you do not know what millennialism is. No one here is saying Jesus comes back in the flesh to reign (millenarianism), he comes back in glory.... his Eucharistic glory, His Eucharistic reign! The era of peace as Revelations 20 states is: "one thousand years" denoting a long period of time! This is biblical and it has been revealed by a saint, a pope and scripture!!! Now read this slow again, so it sinks in. I have put in red the teaching of the Catholic Church (source below) and in red what Saint Pope John Paul concluded on the Kingdom, which cannot be at the end of the world, but the world as we know it, as "the Kingdom of peace... will re-establish the original harmony of creation" as the Lords Prayer prophetic prayer clearly teaches " THY KINGDOM COME, thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in HEAVEN" prior to the end of the world. I know you don't want to believe it, but the teaching of the Catholic Church and Saint Pope John Paul teaches what you refuse to believe! Jesus taught us to pray the prophetic Lord's Prayer, where his KINGDOM will come on earth and his Will shall be done as it is in HEAVEN!!! One doesn't need to much education to understand Jesus was speaking of exactly what Pope Saint John Paul II foretold on November 6th, 2002, because if it was at the end of the world, why would he be speaking on the "Kingdom of peace...will re-establish the original harmony of creation", which as you should know was the one Adam and Eve were created into? At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. —CCC, n. 1060 If before that final end there is to be a period, more or less prolonged, of triumphant sanctity, such a result will be brought about not by the apparition of the person of Christ in Majesty but by the operation of those powers of sanctification which are now at work, the Holy Ghost and the Sacraments of the Church. —The Teaching of the Catholic Church: A Summary of Catholic Doctrine (London:Burns Oates & Washbourne), p. 1140 This is our great hope and our invocation, ‘Your Kingdom come!’—a Kingdom of peace, justice and serenity, which will re-establish the original harmony of creation. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, General Audience, November 6th, 2002, Zenit
So you agree with the coming era of the Kingdom coming ON EARTH as it is IN HEAVEN since you use this source: And St Pope John Paul II was quoting directly from the Catholic Catechism (1042 and 629) -(I don't know about that!) when he stated........ "This is our great hope and our invocation, ‘Your Kingdom come!’—a Kingdom of peace, justice and serenity, which will re-establish the original harmony of creation". —POPE JOHN PAUL II, General Audience, November 6th, 2002, Zenit That's EXACTLY what is to come in the new era after this defective era ends and this earth is purified as we pray "Come Holy Spirit fill the hearts of your faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Your Love; SEND FORTH YOUR SPIRIT AND THEY SHALL BE RE-CREATED AND THOU SHALT RENEW THE FACE OF THE EARTH"....thus a Second Pentecost of renewal. At the end of the world/final judgement there will be no defective earth, not even a promise of another renewed one. If that is not true then you would not have such a prayer given to us by Christ to pray for, for personal death would be the end for each w/o any possibility of being purified in order to be fused in Christ, as a living Host, in THIS renewed world. You have convinced us that you have no interest in getting the full knowledge of the new holiness that prepares those for such fusion by delving into the teachings on the Divine Will. So where do you get your basis for comparing it to anything else? You've shown that you're far too afraid of it to ever be open to the Spirit for such knowledge. You can't claim to be an expert on this w/o any background. You can say you're not personally interested but then don't correct people who humbly have attempted to introduce you to where your mind can't appear to go. The Church herself has left this question open since it has not as yet formed a full understanding in its study just as there is much speculation on Revelation....to be further explained by the action of the Spirit as Christ spoke to us when He left. The perfect bride is being formed by the Spirit for the time when everything will be completed and presented to the Father by Christ. This new era will explain the mystical humanity of Christ w/ a further teaching by the Spirit as necessary beyond only the physical passion that was witnessed and revealed. Otherwise, you are talking only about (your choice quote): the Last Judgment "after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world". You mix and confuse the two together. That's not even the topic here. It is about the coming era AFTER the end of this era.....as what came after the purification of the flood. There was a new world as well at that point as a kind of precursor to this coming purification of justice and trial that creates the coming remnant to enter into such a final era, a mystical era since Heaven will come to earth, which will be unaffected by temptation of Satan (thus, "better" than the original garden) until the end when Satan will be released and THAT will then be the final end/final judgement. You even quote that final end or Last Judgement. If you leave out the coming period of scripture where Satan is banished that comes before that Last Judgement then you are the one misusing scripture. While I'm sure you didn't mean to do so it simply shows that you are mixing apples and oranges....or "apples" with "living Hosts"!! You seem to be stuck on a "messianic hope" which has nothing at all to do with the coming era of the Divine Will since that understanding you mention involves the falsehood that Christ will come in His body to reign on earth Himself. Rather, it is to be a Eucharistic era where the full understanding of the Eucharist will live in those in a mystical way, beyond the material disintegration. Read Faustina who experienced this kind of living fused to Christ from one Eucharist to the next.
When one is Catholic and believes the truths of the Catholic faith there's no need to belittle any Catholic speaking this Catholic Truth. St Pope John Paul II was quoting directly from the Catholic Catechism "1042 and 629" (as written above) when he stated........ "This is our great hope and our invocation, ‘Your Kingdom come!’—a Kingdom of peace, justice and serenity, which will re-establish the original harmony of creation". —POPE JOHN PAUL II, General Audience, November 6th, 2002, Zenit And moreover this same wording used by Our Holy Father St Pope John Paul II is further reiterated in Catechism of the Catholic Church..... 1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."630 It will be the definitive realization of God's plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."631 1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.632 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."633 1045 For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament."634 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, "the holy city" of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."635 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.636 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion. 1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man: For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay.... We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.637 1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.638 1048 "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. the form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."639 Yes this new earth where Gods will, will be done as in Heaven. Thank you Jesus for giving us your prayer that we faithful will pray until you come in Great Glory. Amen
http://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/audiences/2002/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_20021106.html GENERAL AUDIENCE OF JOHN PAUL II Wednesday 6 November 2002 "May Your Kingdom Come" Dear Brothers and Sisters, 1. Psalm 97[98], just proclaimed, belongs to a kind of hymn we have already met during the spiritual journey we are undertaking in the light of the Psalter. This is a hymn to the Lord King of the universe and of history (cf. v. 6). It is described as a "new song" (cf. v. 1), which, in biblical language, means a perfect, full, solemn song accompanied by festive music. In fact, in addition to the choral song, the Psalmist evokes "the melodious sound" of the lyre (cf. v. 5), the trumpet and the horn (cf. v. 6), and also a kind of cosmic applause (cf. v. 8). Moreover, the name of the "Lord" resounds repeatedly (six times), invoked as "our God" (v. 3). Hence, God is at the centre of the scene in all his majesty, while he carries out salvation in history and is awaited to "govern" the world and the peoples (cf. v. 9). The Hebrew verb that indicates "judgment" also means "to govern": so all await the effective action of the Sovereign of the entire earth who will usher in peace and justice. 2. The Psalm opens with the proclamation of divine intervention at the heart of the history of Israel (cf. vv. 1-3). The images of the "right hand" and the "holy arm" refer to Exodus, to the deliverance from the slavery of Egypt (cf. v. 1). Instead, the covenant with the chosen people is remembered through the two great divine perfections: "love" and "faithfulness" (cf. v. 3). These signs of salvation are revealed "before the eyes of the peoples" and to "all the ends of the earth" (vv. 2.3) so that all humanity may be attracted to God the Saviour and open to his word and to his saving work. 3. The reception reserved for the Lord, who intervenes in history is marked by a universal praise: in addition to the orchestra and the hymns of the Temple of Zion (cf. vv. 5-6), the universe, as a kind of cosmic temple, also participates. There are four singers of this immense choir of praise. The first is the roaring sea, that seems to be the constant basso of this grandiose hymn (cf. v. 7). The earth and the entire world (cf. vv. 4.7) with all its inhabitants follow united in solemn harmony. The third personification is that of the rivers, that are considered the arms of the sea which, with their rhythmic flow, seem to clap hands in applause (cf. v. 8). Finally, there are the mountains that seem to dance for joy before the Lord, even though they are the most massive and imposing creatures (cf. v. 8; Ps 28[29],6; 113[114],6). So we have a colossal choir that has only one purpose: to exalt the Lord, King and just Judge. As mentioned, the end of the Psalm, in fact, presents God, "who comes to govern (and to rule) the earth ... with justice and equity" (Ps 97 [98],9). This is our great hope and our petition: "Your Kingdom come" - a kingdom of peace, justice, and serenity, that will re-establish the original harmony of creation. 4. In this Psalm, with deep joy the Apostle Paul has recognized a prophecy of the work of God in the mystery of Christ. Paul made use of verse 2 to express the theme of his important Letter to the Romans: in the Gospel, the "justice of God is revealed" (cf. Rom 1,17), "is manifested" (cf. Rom 3,21). Paul's interpretation confers on the Psalm a greater fullness of meaning. Read in the perspective of the Old Testament, the Psalm proclaims that God saves his people and that all the nations, seeing this, are in admiration. However, in the Christian perspective, God works salvation in Christ, Son of Israel; all the nations see him and are invited to benefit from this salvation, since the Gospel "is the power of God for salvation to everyone who has faith, for the Jew first, and then for the Greek", namely the pagan (Rom 1,16). Moreover, "all the ends of the earth" not only "have seen the victory of our God" (Ps 97[98],3), but have received it. 5. In this perspective, Origen, a Christian writer of the third century, in a text quoted by St Jerome, interprets the "new song" of the Psalm as an anticipated celebration of the Christian newness of the crucified Redeemer. Now let us listen to his commentary in which he combines the song of the Psalmist with the proclamation of the Gospel. "A new song is the Son of God who was crucified - something that had never before been heard of. A new reality must have a new song. "Sing to the Lord a new song'. He who suffered the Passion is in reality a man; but you sing to the Lord. He suffered the Passion as a man, but saved as God". Origen continues: Christ "did miracles in the midst of the Jews: he healed paralytics, cleansed lepers, raised up the dead. But other prophets also did this. He changed a few loaves into an enormous number, and gave countless people something to eat. But Elisha did this. Now, what new thing did he do to merit a new song? Do you want to know what new thing he did? God died as a man so that men might have life; the Son of Man was crucified to raise us up to heaven" (74 Omelie sul libro dei Salmi [74 Homilies on the Book of Psalms], Milan, 1993, pp. 309-310). __________________________________________ It is clear that Pope Saint John Paul II was speaking of the reign of Christ when He comes for the last judgement. He himself says so....read the bolded text above. The intent of the speaker becomes more clear when NOT quoted out of context.
Let us continue to pray Our Lords Prayer, until He comes again and leave all else to His Divine will. Yes I reiterate; St Pope John Paul II was quoting directly from the Catholic Catechism (1042 and 629) when he stated........ "This is our great hope and our invocation, ‘Your Kingdom come!’—a Kingdom of peace, justice and serenity, which will re-establish the original harmony of creation". —POPE JOHN PAUL II, General Audience, November 6th, 2002, Zenit Catechism of the Catholic Church: 1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgement, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. the universe itself will be renewed: The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.629 1048 "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. the form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."639 Yes this new earth where Gods will, will be done, as in Heaven. Do you agree with the Catholic Catechism?
1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.632 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."633 Except in the era of the Divine Will, in the renewed earth where His Will will be done AS in heaven, there will be death. Luisa, the little daughter of the Divine Will, was brought to live perfectly in the Divine Will and yet she underwent death. While there will be some who come to live in this New Era who had been martyred in the period leading up to it and so will not be subject to a second death, there will still be death but those living will see this as their real birth and not as we see it as something to be feared. So "death" too will be purified due to the will of the remnant being perfectly aligned with the mind of Christ, in the Divine Will of the Father.....perfectly fused with Christ Who lives totally in the Father's Will.
The problem though is that you are not describing the coming era which, again, will not be after the final end but prior to it. You can agree with the CC but it doesn't matter when you are off topic and use it to speak of something that is not being discussed here. As I said, you're mixing two different "moments" in the Father's Will for His creation. Apparently you still don't see that.
Catechism of the Catholic Church: PART FOUR CHRISTIAN PRAYER SECTION TWO THE LORD'S PRAYER "OUR FATHER!" 2759 Jesus "was praying at a certain place, and when he ceased, one of his disciples said to him, 'Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.'"1 In response to this request the Lord entrusts to his disciples and to his Church the fundamental Christian prayer. St. Luke presents a brief text of five petitions,2 while St. Matthew gives a more developed version of seven petitions.3 The liturgical tradition of the Church has retained St. Matthew's text: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. 2760 Very early on, liturgical usage concluded the Lord's Prayer with a doxology. In the Didache, we find, "For yours are the power and the glory for ever."4 The Apostolic Constitutions add to the beginning: "the kingdom," and this is the formula retained to our day in ecumenical prayer.5 The Byzantine tradition adds after "the glory" the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." The Roman Missal develops the last petition in the explicit perspective of "awaiting our blessed hope" and of the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.6 Then comes the assembly's acclamation or the repetition of the doxology from the Apostolic Constitutions. 1 Lk 11:1. 2 Cf. Lk 11:2-4. 3 Cf. Mt 6:9-13. 4 Didache 8,2:SCh 248,174. 5 Apostolic Constitutions, 7,24,1 1,1016. 6 Titus 2:13; cf. Roman Missal 22, Embolism after the Lord's Prayer.
Catechism of the Catholic Church: CHRISTIAN PRAYER SECTION ONE PRAYER IN THE CHRISTIAN LIFE 2558 "Great is the mystery of the faith!" The Church professes this mystery in the Apostles' Creed (Part One) and celebrates it in the sacramental liturgy (Part Two), so that the life of the faithful may be conformed to Christ in the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father (Part Three). This mystery, then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer. WHAT IS PRAYER? For me, prayer is a surge of the heart; it is a simple look turned toward heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial and joy.1 Prayer as God's gift 2559 "Prayer is the raising of one's mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God."2 But when we pray, do we speak from the height of our pride and will, or "out of the depths" of a humble and contrite heart?3 He who humbles himself will be exalted;4 humility is the foundation of prayer, Only when we humbly acknowledge that "we do not know how to pray as we ought,"5 are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer. "Man is a beggar before God."6 2560 "If you knew the gift of God!"7 The wonder of prayer is revealed beside the well where we come seeking water: there, Christ comes to meet every human being. It is he who first seeks us and asks us for a drink. Jesus thirsts; his asking arises from the depths of God's desire for us. Whether we realize it or not, prayer is the encounter of God's thirst with ours. God thirsts that we may thirst for him.8 2561 "You would have asked him, and he would have given you living water."9 Paradoxically our prayer of petition is a response to the plea of the living God: "They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewn out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water!"10 Prayer is the response of faith to the free promise of salvation and also a response of love to the thirst of the only Son of God.11 Prayer as covenant 2562 Where does prayer come from? Whether prayer is expressed in words or gestures, it is the whole man who prays. But in naming the source of prayer, Scripture speaks sometimes of the soul or the spirit, but most often of the heart (more than a thousand times). According to Scripture, it is the heart that prays. If our heart is far from God, the words of prayer are in vain. 2563 The heart is the dwelling-place where I am, where I live; according to the Semitic or Biblical expression, the heart is the place "to which I withdraw." The heart is our hidden center, beyond the grasp of our reason and of others; only the Spirit of God can fathom the human heart and know it fully. The heart is the place of decision, deeper than our psychic drives. It is the place of truth, where we choose life or death. It is the place of encounter, because as image of God we live in relation: it is the place of covenant. 2564 Christian prayer is a covenant relationship between God and man in Christ. It is the action of God and of man, springing forth from both the Holy Spirit and ourselves, wholly directed to the Father, in union with the human will of the Son of God made man. Prayer as communion 2565 In the New Covenant, prayer is the living relationship of the children of God with their Father who is good beyond measure, with his Son Jesus Christ and with the Holy Spirit. The grace of the Kingdom is "the union of the entire holy and royal Trinity . . . with the whole human spirit."12 Thus, the life of prayer is the habit of being in the presence of the thrice-holy God and in communion with him. This communion of life is always possible because, through Baptism, we have already been united with Christ.13 Prayer is Christian insofar as it is communion with Christ and extends throughout the Church, which is his Body. Its dimensions are those of Christ's love.14 1 St. ThéRèse of Lisieux, Manuscrits autobiographiques, C 25r. 2 St. John Damascene, Defide orth. 3,2G 94,1089C. 3 Ps 130:1. 4 Cf. Lk 18:9-14. 5 Rom 8:26. 6 St. Augustine, Sermo 56,6,9L 38,381. 7 Jn 4:10. 8 Cf. St. Augustine, De diversis quaestionibus octoginta tribus 64,4L 40,56. 9 Jn 4:10. 10 Jer 2:13. 11 Cf. Jn 7:37-39; 19:28; Isa 12:3; 51:1; Zech 12:10; 13:1. 12 St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio, 16,9 G 35,945. 13 Cf. Rom 6:5. 14 Cf. Eph 3:18-21.
Yes, I've read it and it contains much more even than your chosen quotes of it in part.... what the era of the Divine Will must accomplish.....perfectly done on earth as it is in heaven through the action of the Holy Spirit in the Second Pentecost. Thus, you received your answer. And no need to worry! Beautiful idea of what is yet to come as we pray for it. Church approved w/ saints connected in order to give more incentive for deeper study.
Asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he said in reply, “The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed,i* and no one will announce, ‘Look, here it is,’ or, ‘There it is.’j For behold, the kingdom of God is among you.”
Yes, always waiting for it to be done "as it is in heaven" in the perfection of God's timing or we wouldn't have to pray for it to come still.....look within.
Heavenly Hosts posted..... If it’s not in the CC, it’s heretical. Apparently you don’t see that. Your answer...... I would assume that the Our Father is in the CC! If you knew the Lord's prayer was in the CC, why did you say you would assume, and end with an exclamation mark? Additionally I was replying to your inquiry of whether the Our Father was in the CC, therefore I did not see any reason to continue to quote more about prayer in the CC. It is also interesting to note that the catholic catechism says nothing about ..... what the era of the Divine Will must accomplish.... Deeper study of the Catholic Catechism is always a good idea.
I was being facetious since so much was being made to assume that the Divine Will couldn't be found in the CC and it was obvious that it was since it is the fulfillment of that prayer. Shhsh! And of course it explained what this fulfillment of His Will on earth would entail in order to be realized. Look, there is a group that obviously shouldn't be here since they admit that their own conscience tells them that it is wrong. Then simply follow you conscience. No one is forcing you to learn anything. And it's obvious that no matter how much people attempt to give you and others what they are asking while being told that such knowledge just doesn't exist when it's being completed at the Vatican along with permission to read the full outline written by the Vatican's own theologian of eschatology. So don't tell people that it isn't Catholic since what is permitted by the Church to learn about it tells you that what you are attempting to make others agree to is outside of what the Church permits. Perhaps you just want to argue points that haven't even been brought up. If you don't wish to get acquainted through what is available then you are arguing from an uninformed background and a closed mind. Sorry, but so far that is what has taken place. Go to Lynne's thread that has quotes from what is available along with her own granted permission to offer them to the public and answer questions....that is if you're not just being disingenuous. You can't debunk it at this point since it's already out there with the Church's permission. All of that has already been offered w/ all the quotes from the authorities in question. Amen!
Why is it absurd when that is the whole topic here or the elephant in the room that certain ones keep denying. It sounds like this thread may be, for you anyway, a temptation against your personal conscience. It certainly isn't for others who are more informed and accept that what is being learned, now for decades, is permitted. No one can or is forcing you to learn something that you find questionable or to which you can't relate. Only you can leave it alone since it's pretty obvious that you personally find it wrong.
