Creation or Evolution theories

PROCESS THEOLOGY

A view of reality including what Christianity calls God, which sees everything still in the process of becoming what it will be, but nothing really is. It is called theology because it is a form of evolutionary pantheism which postulates a finite god who is becoming perfect, but is not (as Christianity believes) infinite and all-perfect from eternity. It is called "process" because it claims that the universe (including God) is moving toward completion, without identifying what this completion is or when or whether it will be reached. On these terms nothing is stable, nothing certain, because nothing really is. There are no determined moral laws, no absolute norms of conduct, no certain principles of thought, and no means of knowing anything. There is no "thing," since what people call "things" are moving functions that keep changing in their very being. Everything, including the thinking mind, is ever becoming what it was not and ceasing to be what it was.
Not all adherents of what is called process theology are consistently evolutionary pantheists. But once they postulate a finite god who is still growing in perfection, logically all the rest follows. The main contributors to present-day process thought were skeptic David Hume (1711-76), the philosophers Georg Hegel (1770-1831), Herbert Spencer (1820-1903), Henri Bergson (1859-1941), and Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947), and the Marxist writer Ernst Bloch (1885-1977).

 

Sorry for the delay MC. I haven't been on for a day.

My son is:
http://motheofgod.com/threads/not-yet-come-to-pass33.4151/

I don't think he has posted yet, other than on that intro thread, but it is interesting that he brings up this very topic on his first ever post. He is young, but passionate. Just graduated with a BA in History from St. Norbert College in DePere, WI. The only university the Norbertines have in the world.

 

Oh excellent. I shall take a little nose.. err I mean look. Thank you Jon

 

I like you son already Jon. He is full of zeal and has a passion for the bible. Good on him. You must be very proud.

 

Jose, do you think the universe always existed?

 

Nope!

 

Man is so different from the animals because he has a soul.

Man has a fallen nature.

We have fallen from a higher state to a lower state.

Evolution teaches we have evolved from a lower state to a higher. Therein lies a contradiction!

 

If an alien would come to earth and would be presented with the bodies of different animals like reptiles, fishes, birds and mammals, including lions, elephants apes and humans, do you think he would see any difference in humans? Morphological and anatomically he could not find any to say that we are not animals. Confronted with our intelligence he would conclude we are more advanced that the rest of the animal world. Nobody could and can prove that man was falling from a more elevated status. That is why I think the explanations are speculative. I offered earlier what I think about it.

 

The Church teaches that man has fallen from a higher state to a lower state. This is an article of faith. Man was created in an original state of of holiness and justice and shared in divine life. Man was created in a state of 'original justice' - the first man was unimpaired and ordered in his whole being because he was free from the triple concupiscence. The Catechism is worth reading on this:

IV. MAN IN PARADISE
374 The first man was not only created good, but was also established in friendship with his Creator and in harmony with himself and with the creation around him, in a state that would be surpassed only by the glory of the new creation in Christ.
375 The Church, interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and Tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original "state of holiness and justice".250 This grace of original holiness was "to share in. . .divine life".251
376 By the radiance of this grace all dimensions of man's life were confirmed. As long as he remained in the divine intimacy, man would not have to suffer or die.252 The inner harmony of the human person, the harmony between man and woman,253 and finally the harmony between the first couple and all creation, comprised the state called "original justice".
377 The "mastery" over the world that God offered man from the beginning was realized above all within man himself: mastery of self. The first man was unimpaired and ordered in his whole being because he was free from the triple concupiscence254 that subjugates him to the pleasures of the senses, covetousness for earthly goods, and self-assertion, contrary to the dictates of reason.
378 The sign of man's familiarity with God is that God places him in the garden.255 There he lives "to till it and keep it". Work is not yet a burden,256 but rather the collaboration of man and woman with God in perfecting the visible creation.
379 This entire harmony of original justice, foreseen for man in God's plan, will be lost by the sin of our first parents.

When sin entered the world man fell from a higher state to a lower state as man lost the grace of original holiness.

THE FALL
399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness.280 They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.281
400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul's spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.283 Because of man, creation is now subject "to its bondage to decay".284 Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will "return to the ground",285 for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.286
401 After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain's murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. And even after Christ's atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.287 Scripture and the Church's Tradition continually recall the presence and universality of sin in man's history:

 

He might not see a difference in some (those who live according to the flesh and their own desires) but I would like to think that he would see a difference in many (not just those who believed in God) but those who are morally good, who help others, those who work voluntarily for charities to help the less fortunate etc..

We are able to love outside of ourselves. There is a huge difference. I have yet to see a dog praying, or a younger chimp helping an older chimp to climb up a tree.

Yes, my arguments are simplistic, nevertheless, they are still valid.

I have no problem with thinking animals existed and even evolved (though I fail to see how they thrived) but as some point. God DID place man on the Earth.

 

The aliens would know which ones were human immediately. The humans would be the ones holding the grenade launchers pointing right at them.

 

You are a blessing Jimmy. We need humor.

 

This line of thought demonstrates how the deception manifests, almost completely now, in the minds of men in this era.

You are not a body that just might have a soul. You are a soul. That is who you are, and in this state, you just happen to have a mortal body.

And this assumption of aliens....that is another deception that is ripening in the minds of men. The creator of Star Trek admitted that he wanted to convince people of the evolution theory and basically deny the existence of God by promoting the "alien" agenda. Since then, through entertainment and media, we have been conditioned to think the demonic is cute (ET) and benevolent.

I expect the demonic to manifest to us at some point in the future, posing as benevolent aliens (more "evolved" than us), and many, many "ripe" minds will "follow" them....

Only, they won't be benevolent aliens who are more evolved than us. Because that is all falsehood. They will be demonic.

 

I don't believe in aliens either Jon and you are perfectly right about us being souls who just happen to have a body for this earth. I didn't give that impression at all in my posts.

I actually see our roles as very similar to angels, but in a human sense. We are all to be angels to one another and to pray for one another and to do spiritual battle for one another through prayer etc.. Also to bring God's blessings and healing to one another etc..

This is our mission. How I see it anyway

 

Somebody here did not understand neither the example nor the point I wanted to make. Never mind :-( i should learn how to express myself better.

By the way, me neither, I do not believe in aliens. although we cannot and there is no way to rule out their existence.

 

I didn't think you said anything like that either. I was just pointing out that Jose, by his insertion of the alien idea, is actually perpetuating that deception at some level. I know that he is saying much more than that, and that the alien topic was not his point at all either.

....But......................I only brought it up because these subtleties work their way into our minds, and I think the agenda of evil uses these ideas to build the illusion that will make way for the deception to present itself...........soon.......

 

Jesus tells us unless we except the kingdom of God as a child we cannot enter in. Sometimes I get very concerned with this evolution thread because, all it takes is for some little seed of doubt to enter in, that can sprout into rejection of certain revealed truths. There are some things that need to be taken on faith alone. When the Bible tells us we came from dust,..and to dust we shall return,..I believe it. As far as evolution is concerned, I really don't care. I don't need to know all the great mysteries of the universe. When the Creator came down from heaven. He gave us the examlpe of simplicity and humility,..how great is that??? He who made everything out of nothing..I don't know where this thread is leading or what it will accomplish,..as it seems to me there are no clear answers only more questions.

 

I think not:

THE "Old Policeman" of the Vatican Curia, as controversial Cardinal Ottaviani once described himself, has been taking a stern look at Post-Vatican Council doings and finding them far from satisfactory (writes Alan. McElwain).
In a circular letter to Catholic bishops and heads of religious orders throughout the world the 75-yearold prelate has referred to "abuses in interpretation" of Council decisions and to the emergence of -strange and audacious opinions" which bewilder many Catholics.
With Pope Paul's approval. Cardinal Ottaviani has invited bishops at episcopal conferences in their own countries to discuss 10 "cases" which, he
says, concern "inexact" opinions on the inspiration and invulnerability of the Bible and the value of historic texts. These he says, are detrimental to Catholic dogma and the basis of Catholic Faith.
....
The Cardinal is particularly anxious about abuses in the interpretation of "ecumenism" which involves approaches to non-Catholics. Abuses are understood to include the condemnation by some Catholics of the ecumenical movement because, they claim. it has been responsible for a considerable drop in conversions to Catholicism.
The critics blame the Council for creating a "why should we change our religion now when soon well all be the same, anyhow" philosophy among many Anglicans and others, who before the Council, were regarded as certain to "come over".
CONE TOO FAR it has also been held that some "modern" theologians like Dr. Hans Kong, have gone too far in advocating a sort of "Don't let us be beastly to the Protestants" policy.
It is one thing, the traditionalists say, to avoid as much as possible over-emphasising points of dissension but quite another to adopt a "keep Catholic doctrines dark" line and hush up basic Catholic beliefs so as not to offend or alienate non-Catholics.

Pasted from <http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/article/23rd-september-1966/1/cardinal-ottaviani-fears-abuses>