Hope, I didn't know this about St. Therese. My middle name is Therese, Therese is the name I go by, thank you. Is contemplative prayer (quiet prayer) an advancement in the spiritual life? If you don't hear Our Lord in your heart, are you stuck? Maybe not. I've heard twice 'behind my head', a couple of personal words from God, I thought anyway.
I read a story once about St Teresa of Avila. Teresa was the Founder of the Reformed, Discalced (discalced means 'bare feeted') Order of Carmelites. She was their Spiritual Mother and Founder so what she said went. She had given great teachings on prayer and wrote and talked very widely founding many convents (Carmels). However it is said that one time she was approached by a number of her nuns ( her spiritual daughters) with a problem. Although Teresa herself had laid down a kind of plan for prayer or a road map for these sisters it had not worked out. They did not recognise themselves in anything Teresa had said. An English Carmelite Prioress, Ruth Burroughs (still living ) has written about this and come up with the idea that some people in prayer have graces called, 'Light on' , whereas others have graces called, 'Light off' . Those with 'Light on' are the kinda folks who get visions and feelings and voices and can tell where they are in prayer from outer space (except for the Dark Night) . Those with Light off could be on the Dark Side of the moon as far as knowing where they are in prayer. The American Cistercian , Thomas Merton wrote a nice prayer about this which I posted the other day. Both routes are equally valid, St Therese of Liseaux for instance hit the dark road.. In fact I would say at a guess the Dark Road, the 'Lights off' road is the more virtuous as it requires much, much more faith. But we need the , 'Lights on' folk too , to give hope and a sense of direction on the Long Road of our pilgrimage.
What if someone you knew had inner and outer locutions, visions, dreams,apparitions, the gift of understanding and incredible experiences and blessings and you wanted them to write about their experiences but they were afraid that that would be prideful instead of informative. What would be the question you would ask him to see if God were calling them to write about these experiences for others. There obviously has been a conversion. Life changing events in their life. They obviously have grown. But they so lack the confidence and they sincerely are not at those two 'false' pride spots...the "I'm so terrible I'm nothing..." or the "I'm special, but I guess I'll lower myself". They are in the middle--which is reality..."the God loves me and my faith is a gift for me to grow ever closer to Him." This guy REALLY wants to write, but knows not how to tell his story and MAN DOES HE HAVE A STORY! How do all these other people write their stories? Can you get others to write your story for you? I need to help him with this....
My answer to this as in all things is to take it to the Lord n prayer. If he has a Spiritual Director to ask him. For the Spiritual Director is n alter Christus another Christ. He must ask Christ , for it maybe God wants him to do and it may be He does not. The wast majority never tell, which is fine. Though humanly speaking as someone who loves to write and read and listen it seems kinda sad. As to how well he writes. I would worry little about this. Simply to do his best. The Light will shine through , no matter what. The Light will always shine through. It is always good true to recall too that there is a true humility rooted in the humus, the soil. But there is too the false humility of the little bird afraid to fly.When flying is perhaps what he was born to do.
padraig, Hey, thanks for the Mother Burroughs; instruction on the "light on", "light off" difference. And you give example of St. Teresa of Avila's sisters were "light off." A person doesn't feel they've failed or haven't persevered long enough attempting contemplative prayer. Though, we should keep trying by sitting quietly to hear Our Lord.
For myself, I have decided to take St Teresa's advise and NOT write a spiritual diary. I think if one of my confessor's asked me to write it down, I would only do it under direction, and under obedience. If Jesus gave me prophecy to publish, I would also make sure I had the Church's approval before doing, simply because if Jesus wants it done, He can move mountains to do it, and I would be SO afraid of pride and leading some soul in the wrong direction. Directing someone's soul is such a huge undertaking, and if we should fall later in our lives it could cause much scandal.
Jackie's question about maybe not seeing yourself in the Carmelite model of contemplative prayer was such a good one that it has had me praying and thinking about it a great deal over the last few weeks. The first thing I would hasten to say is that the Catholic Culture is so rich and ancient that you have a whole wealth of writers to chose from on the subject. So if you find one tradition does not throw light on your own circumstance, that's fine, don't be afraid to look at another. However it got me thinking and I am going to write down a few pointers which might indicate a person may well be in Contemplative Prayer. Its bit like boiling eggs, if you haven't got a sauce pan you can't get them boiled. So I am going to write about the sauce pan. The circumstances that give rise to such prayer. These are my ideas about it so I am not going to be quoting on this, apart from scripture.
1 The Call to Discipleship. John 3:1-13: “There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? "Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. The term, 'Born again' has kind of got a bad press amongst Catholics who view this phrase as being one misused by our Protestant sisters and brothers. This is so as it has become a kind of elitist and superficial term Having said that the Scripture still stands. What it boils down to is we must have a living, personal relationship with Jesus. This sounds such a simple thing the immediate question might be; 'Of course I have a living personal relationship with Jesus, I am a Catholic, I am baptised. Don't all Catholics have such a relationship?' And the answer is no . In fact most Catholics do not have such a relationship and neither, in my opinion, do most Protestants, even Evangelical Protestants ,who, 'Talk the talk', so very well and so often about this. An example of this in the Church was the scandal of child abuse. What we had was young men coming forward and offering themselves as candidates for the priesthood. They were asked a whole range of questions to test their suitablity, but the one question the essential question was , 'How is your prayer life? .How are you relating to Christ?' And the reason why this question was never gone into was the Bishops who should have asked such questions, the Seminary Professors, the Spiritual Directors had not got a living personal relationship with Jesus themselves. This is also why so very,very many of our Bishops, Cardinal and priests fall down so badly in Leadership. Because they do not have this relationship with Jesus. Or to put it another way they are not Christ's disciples in anything but name. Or effectively to put it another more harsh way, they are spiritually dead. Oh yes in other ways they are great.Some of them would make great CEO's great psychologists, Educators, politicians, wheeler dealers, but their prayer life is zilch. This comment of course goes all the way up to the Vatican itself. So the first questions is , 'How do you relate to Jesus?' Is it living, is it real, is it personal? And if the answer to this is no, then you can't boil the eggs, you are not in Contemplative Prayer.
Brilliant Paul. I met an Australian priest one time who said to me, 'There are two books a priest needs the Bible and a Bank Book'. I looked at him in amazement. The sad thing was he meant it..and he was the Spiritual Director of a Seminary.
The Contemplative prayer thread reminded me of a message about the ways Jesus speaks to us. I saved it to my e-mail without a subject title and now just found it. Wow, I didn't realize until now, it was given to the same Protestant messenger who recently after the one below, received Catholic sounding messages about the Great Warning, there is a thread at MOG. Her name is Julie Whedbee (She has a new message today). I wrote Julie about her illumination of conscience messages, she replied sharing she use to be Catholic. Discussion of what current prophecy is saying, doesn't help because of upbringing for Protestants and hardly any catechesis these last 40+ years for Catholics. I didn't understand the gift of Our Lord in the Eucharist until a conversion experience as an adult. I was in the same boat, sort of...I didn't see the importance of the Eucharist. Catholics believe even though we don't see, someday everyone will. We can help when the Warning happens. www.IAmCallingYouNow.blogspot.co.uk YOU ARE LOVED BY THE KING July 14th, 2013 I want My dear children to know that they should not be troubled or concerned because they don't feel I am speaking to them. I have a very unique and personal relationship with each one of you individually, and I use various methods to communicate to you My heart and My will. To some, I will speak inner thoughts that are similar to hearing with your earthly ears. To others, I speak through an unction, or emotion you suddenly have that you did not imagine yourselves. Many times, you will experience a message from Me in a song lyric, a quote in something you read, or simply a glance at My beautiful creation in nature. It could be a gentle word from a friend or loved one, or a kind look from a stranger as you walk down the street. You see, I am speaking in many, many, different ways, and any attempt to categorize Me and put limitations on Me by saying I only talk to a special few, is only your fear. I am as close as your next breath, and I see you all the same. I do not favor anyone over another, therefore I could not possible 'speak' as you see it, to one or several of you, and not 'speak' to others of you as well. I love you all equally, and there is always a divine order to what I communicate and when, seasons for everything. The only time I would not be able to talk with you or express My heart is if there is unconfessed sin in your life. If you are haboring bitterness, unforgiveness, anger, judgement, or simply do not have charity, love, for all others, then you will be prevented from hearing My instructions and Will for your life. So rest in My heart dear ones, I embrace all of you seeking Me with all your heart and always, always remember, you are loved by The King! King Messiah
There are so many, many messages from right round the world coming from Catholics I never really find time to read many Protestant ones. I find it difficult to Discern Protestant Prophesy often because the key criteria used for Catholic Prophesy does not apply to them. For instance loyalty and obedience to the Church and its teachings. A Spiritual Director to whom they are obedient. So I tend to let them go by. I wonder if this lady perhaps, when she was a Catholic had read about these things and was influenced by them? Also , I don't want to seem over harsh but well, the fact that she is, well, an Apostate Catholic, does not help me sway in her direction.
padraig, All you stated is true. I guess it is the back and forth continued disagreement with Protestants. Their (a few exceptions by grace) never seeing the importance of the Eucharist. Makes me feel better to read the Catholic hints and lately much more than hints in the Protestant messages. And Jesus would speak to Protestants to help them prepare for end time events. Don't mean to go off subject, Julie's message I thought fit the thread. You are nice...kind replies....
In another way our Protestant sisters and brothers are very much off track. Their Prophesies all centre on the State of Israel , the Wars amongst the Nations (Armageddon) and the Coming of the Anti Christ. In other words that current events lead up to the End of Times. The reason why they went off the rails like this is, I suspect that they have rejected the role and Messages of Our Blessed Mother. True Catholic Prophesy indicates that we are undergoing a Tribulation (Not the End of Times and an upcoming Illumination of Conscience and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (which is the Triumph of the Church). Ironically the Protestant view is unscriptural since as Jesus Himself pointed out not even the angels know the day or hour but some of these pundits think they have it buttoned down...a contradiction. Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Protestants are certainly off track in their beliefs and what they think is going to happen BUT their prophecy doesn't say the same. Read their messages, Protestant prophecy keeps mentioning the unity of Christianity and lately is more specific about the faith. God is preparing them. http://ft111.com/eagles.htm How mistaken and awful the anti-Mary belief. Their denial or envy maybe because there have been so many Catholic messages and apparitions in the last 100 years plus the well known approved apparitions. Protestants are aware but Mary isn't appearing to them but by exception. The anti-Marian nonsense was begun to distance Protestantism from Catholicism. Maybe, something special is planned to touch the hearts of non-Catholics about the Blessed Mother during the Great Waring. I use the term end times generally, meaning Tribulation and the Great Tribulation. To me, the Warning is a part of the end times, the end of the 6th Day. The 7th Day is God's new time, the Era of Peace. Julie Whedbee's message, Our Lord shares how He speaks to us. I didn't read anything unorthodox in it. Back to Catholic Contemplative Prayer discussion, sorry padraig.
Yes of course Jackie he is leading them. One of the things that touched me was that the Southern Baptist convention in the USA orignally permitted abortion then swung violently against it. The Holy Spirit is active everywhere. Another thing intrigues me and that is the goings on in Mormonism. THere are certain inbuilt inconsitencies in their Faith. But to face up to these would result in end of it all. So there has alwayas been a tesnion to hide the truth. But more and more I see the Truth blossing forth like a Spring in the Desert. I find this wonderful how turth can triumph like this. We can learn much from these things.
A Second Sign of the onset of Contemplative Prayer is , I believe a real hunger for the Eucharist and for the Mass itself. THis is a very real hunger as real or more real than the hunger we have for food itself. More and more our enture day revolves around the mass so that it becomes the very centre of out lives. The Eucharist is very very gentle. It reminds me of what some comentators mention about the coming of the Blessed Virgin , that this is often preceeded by a gentle breeze, showing the prence of the Holy Spirit. However over time it gorws to be a mighty hurrican, a raging wind. We cannot live without it. I had an interesting conversation with a very holy Dominican priest one time many years ago. I happened to mention to him how sorry I was for people who live very far from a Catholic Church and so cannot expect to get to mass every day. He said something that surprised me, he said that if they choose to live far from a Church it was their own fault if they could not go to mass, for if they realy hungered, with all their being for the Eucharist they would never leave the vicinity of a Church! So in the usual run of things I would expect daily mass going to be part and parcel of the coming of Contemplative Prayer.
St. Thérèse's First Communion 8th May 1884 Source: Story of a Soul [St. Thérèse's autobiogrphy], Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books and Publishers, Inc. At last the most wonderful day of my life arrived1, and I can remember every tiny detail of those heavenly hours: my joyous waking up at dawn, the tender, reverent kisses of the mistresses and older girls2, the room where we dressed -- filled with the white "snowflakes" in which one after another we were clothed -- and above all, our entry into chapel and the singing of the morning hymn: "O Altar of God, Where the Angels are Hovering." I would not tell you everything, even if I could, for there are certain things which lose their fragrance in the open air, certain thoughts so intimate that they cannot be translated into earthly language without losing at once their deep and heavenly meaning. How lovely it was, that first kiss of Jesus in my heart -- it was truly a kiss of love. I knew that I was loved and said, "I love You, and I give myself to You forever." Jesus asked for nothing, He claimed no sacrifice. Long before that, He and little Thérèse had seen and understood one another well, but on that day it was more than a meeting -- it was a complete fusion. We were no longer two, for Thérèse had disappeared like a drop of water lost in the mighty ocean. Jesus alone remained -- the Master and the King. Had she not asked Him to take away her liberty, the liberty she feared? She felt so weak and frail that she wanted to unite herself forever to His Divine Strength. And her joy became so vast, so deep, that now it overflowed. Soon she was weeping, to the astonishment of her companions, who said to one another later on: "Why did she cry? Was there something on her conscience? Perhaps it was because her mother3 was not there, or the Carmelite sister4 she loves so much." It was beyond them that all the joy of Heaven had entered one small, exiled heart, and that it was too frail and weak to bear it without tears. As if the absence of my mother could make me unhappy on the day of my First Communion! As all Heaven entered my soul when I received Jesus, my mother came to me as well. Nor could I cry because you5 were not there, we were closer than ever before. It was joy alone, deep ineffable joy that filled my heart. That afternoon I was chosen to read the "Act of Consecration to Our Lady." I suppose they chose me because I had lost my earthly mother so young. Anyway, I put my whole heart into it and begged Our Lady to guard me always. I felt sure she was looking at me with that lovely smile which had cured me and delivered me, and I knew all I owed her; for it was she herself, that morning of the 8th of May, who placed Jesus in my soul, "the flower of the field and the lily of the valley." When evening came that lovely day, Father led his little queen by the hand to Carmel, and there I saw you made the bride of Christ6. I saw your veil, all white like mine, and your crown of roses. There was no bitterness in all my joy, for I hoped to join you7 and wait for Heaven at your side. I was very moved by the family feast prepared at Les Buissonets8 and delighted with the little watch which Father gave me. Yet my happiness was very tranquil, with an inward peace no earthly thing could touch. Night came at last to end my lovely evening, for darkness falls even on the brightest day. Only the first day of Communion in Eternity will never end.
A third sign of Contemplative prayer is a hunger a desire for God. This so very beautifully described in Psalm 42. Psalm 42 says it all really, I felt like crying watching this, it is right on the nail Psalm 42 Why Are You Cast Down, O My Soul? To the choirmaster. A Maskil[a] of the Sons of Korah. 42 As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God. 2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When shall I come and appear before God?[b] 3 My tears have been my food day and night, while they say to me all the day long, “Where is your God?” 4 These things I remember, as I pour out my soul: how I would go with the throng and lead them in procession to the house of God with glad shouts and songs of praise, a multitude keeping festival. 5 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my salvation[c] 6 and my God. My soul is cast down within me; therefore I remember you from the land of Jordan and of Hermon, from Mount Mizar. 7 Deep calls to deep at the roar of your waterfalls; all your breakers and your waves have gone over me. 8 By day the Lord commands his steadfast love, and at night his song is with me, a prayer to the God of my life. 9 I say to God, my rock: “Why have you forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?” 10 As with a deadly wound in my bones, my adversaries taunt me, while they say to me all the day long, “Where is your God?” 11 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my salvation and my God.
Song of Songs 3 3 All night long on my bed I looked for the one my heart loves; I looked for him but did not find him. 2 I will get up now and go about the city, through its streets and squares; I will search for the one my heart loves. So I looked for him but did not find him. 3 The watchmen found me as they made their rounds in the city. “Have you seen the one my heart loves?” 4 Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother’s house, to the room of the one who conceived me. 5 Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you by the gazelles and by the does of the field: Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires.
