Prayer and the Body.

Discussion in 'On prayer itself' started by padraig, May 18, 2015.

  1. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    And that must be the Skelligs. I once saved a mans life off this coast and dragged him off the rocks and back to the shore and his wife who tore a strip off him for being such a silly old fool for going out so far.
     
  2. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    I did a four year diploma in Naturopathy in tandem with my degree in Osteopathy. As part of that we had to experience an elimination fast under supervision. I lived on nothing but distilled water for 10 days. I had plenty of energy and cycled back and forth to college every day as usual. We were advised to break our stomachs very gently back into a normal diet. A very weak vegetable broth was suggested. I had butter chicken. I have never tasted anything so good and no drastic effects!
     
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  3. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Portglenone also features in our family.
     
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    :)
    Saving a man's life is no small thing.
     
  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    So the result is that in the Church the poor old body has had a very bad press taking very much second seat to the Spirit which is taken to be the , 'Real Deal'. In fact the body is or was often taken as the enemy which has to be forced into submission.

    A good example of this was the use of the, 'Discipline', a little whip of cords people use as a penance. I was a little surprised in the monastery to discover it was still used there.

    [​IMG]

    This is kind of spiritual approach has been described as Neo- Platonic after the ancient Greek Philospher , Plato, a getnleman who was inclined to deny the reality of the material and placve most emphasis on the spritual.

    [​IMG]

    Plato: copy of portrait bust by Silanion
     
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I was talking to a Domincan priest one time who was Patristic Professor (Patrisitcs being the writings of the Early Church Fathers) from Washington in the United States and who told me a very interesting and insightful story.

    As well as being a Professor he worked also in a Parish in Washington whose members were mostly African Americans. Anyway the holy father decided as an experiment to read some of the writings of the Ealry Fathers to see how they went down with his flock. So he read the letter of St Ignatious of Antioch. This letter was wrtten by the Holy Bishop when he was on his way in chains to be fed to the lions. St Iggy famously talks about his body being ground into bread (by the millstones of the lions teeth ) into the bread of Christ.

    “It is not that I want merely to be called a Christian, but to actually be one. Yes, if I prove to be one, then I can have the name...Come fire, cross, battling with wild beasts, wrenching of bones, mangling of limbs, crushing of my whole body, cruel tortures of the Devil--Only let me get to Jesus Christ!”
    St. Ignatius of Antioch

    Permit me to imitate my suffering God... I am God's wheat and I shall be ground by the teeth of beasts, that I may become the pure bread of Christ.”
    St. Ignatius of Antioch


    [​IMG]

    But when it came to the section on poor old Iggy being glad he was going to be eaten by the lions , to the horror of m friend the priest his congregation began to roar with laughter.

    He had to go away and have a good think on this and he realsied that the spirituality of the Ealry Christians is not necessarily the spiritulality of the modern Catholic. It is a bit like putting the spare part of another make or automobile into your own machine..the thing just won't go.

    So the Professor realised that in talking to his congregation he had to put the writings of the Holy Fathers..their spirituality in context, to explain things.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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  8. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    Interesting story of a monk who lived in Portglenone monastery & then became a hermit in the Glens of Antrim:

    Obituary from the Coleraine Times

    Sunday 10 March 2013
    HE lead a solitary life dedicated to prayer and contemplation,humility and service to God.

    Monk Veder O’Kane, a member of the Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance - also known as Trappists - was laid to rest following a traditional monastic service at Dunboe Church, Castlerock on Sunday, February 24. He had passed away at Antrim Area Hospital hospice two days before following a long battle with bowel cancer. He was 73. His body, clothed in his robe, was reposed at Portglenone Monastery for 24 hours and then at his brother Terry’s Coleraine home for the wake.

    In accordance with the Order of Cistercians Veder was not buried in a traditional coffin but was brought into the church in full view on an open bier - a flat wooden board with four lugholes - to allow carriage by the pallbearers. His wish was to be interred in the family plot where his father John and mother Rose were buried. As a measure of his devotion to his life-long divinity he himself provided the Prayers of the Faithful for the service.

    Three of the remaining 14 monks at Our Lady Of Bethlehem Abbey, Portglenone - including one from Uganda - attended the service. The celebrant was Fr Francis Morgan who officiated alongside parish priest of St John’s in Coleraine, Fr Charlie Keaney.

    Veder came from a large and well known Coleraine family of 14 children who grew up in Lilac Avenue in Millburn. As a boy Veder went to St John’s Primary School and then onto St Macnissi’s College (Garron Tower).
    He joined the Portglenone Monastery in 1960 when he was just 17 years old, following the Rule of St Benedict and he made his first commitment to the Order in 1962 and final commitment in 1965.

    The Cistercians observe strict silence, are largely vegeterian and obstain from meat, rise early for prayer and take part in physical work. While in Portglenone Veder would get up at 3.45am and take part in seven sessions of communal prayer throughout the day until Compline – or night prayer - which concluded with the singing of the Salve Regina, or Hail Holy Queen, honouring the Mother of God, who has a special place in the hearts of Cistercian monks.

    The brothers live out a ceaseless search for God. They do this by following the Rule of St Benedict (c.480-550), who is venerated as the ‘Father of Western monasticism’.

    Like his monastic brothers, Veder observed a vow of silence every day which, according to the Cistercians, encourages an attitude of listening, and fosters a life of ceaseless prayer. “Cistercians lead a monastic way of life in solitude and silence, in assiduous prayer and joyful penitence, thus rendering to the divine majesty a service that is at once humble and noble”, according to the Portglenone Monastery. Speaking of Veder’s devotion to the Order, Dom Celsus Kelly, the Abbot of Portglenone, said: “He was always very sincere, genuine and thoughtful. He was a great lover poetry, an avid reader and what he read he consumed. “He followed his path very truly and sincerely and from the 1970s and 80s lived the life of a hermit.”

    Veder was given permission to leave the monastery and from 1970 lived in an isolated shepherd’s cottage at Galboly in ‘The Hidden Village’ in the mountains overlooking Waterfoot (Co Antrim). He told close family members that he never felt lonely there and would spend his day praying and contemplating, reading poetry or observing foxes and other wildlife. He had a particular fascination with the national flowers of countries.

    “When he was younger he was a boarder at Garron Tower, so going to live in ‘The Hidden Village’ was in a sense, him returning to his childhood,” said his nephew Michael Bacon who would visit him often in his latter years, along with his cousin Kevin, who would come over from London. “He lived a very holy, monastic life and was totally devoted to God.” His humble abode, obscured by trees and a mile from the main coastal road, had no cooker, running water or toilet. The tiny house was sparsley furnished with just a table, chair and a small bed with a blanket. Visitors would have to stand or sit on the floor.

    After rising in the early hours of the morning to pray he would drink hot water heated on a one-ring gas stove.
    In the pitch blackness a lighthouse off shore would shine light into his bedroom every 15 seconds. In the stony silence at night he would read by gaslight or candle. “When you entered his house, it smelled of a church hall and you got the impression of entering a holy space and felt a real sense of peace,” said Michael. “His only real luxury was a wooden burner which had been put in for him and a wooden floor. A farmer would deliver him 20 bags of coal which he stored in another room.

    “He was a very inquisitive man, deep and holy. He had very sharp humour too and was very witty. He was very protective over his religious views which he took very seriously. “When I took my daughter Cara to see him he would talk to her about God and ask when she was taking her First Holy Communion. “Once a week he would thumb a little down into Larne to have a shower. “He wasn’t interested in possessions. If he had two pairs of shoes he would give a pair away. He was fascinated by everything to do with scripture and what it meant. All he talked about was God. He was a very deep, private man.”

    At home Veder rarely ate a hot meal, existing on bread, cheese, jam or occasionally, if the weather was bad and he could not get out of the house, cold tinned tomatoes or potatoes. He would venture out to Mass at nearby Waterfoot chapel each Sunday - sometimes covering his feet with plastic bags as he traipsed down the mountain - and became a well known figure among parishioners in the Glens area. Although interested in the outside world, even the advances in technology, Veder shunned any publicity about how he lived his life.

    “Veder was once approached by either Lesser Spotted Ulster or McGilloway’s Way - I can’t remember which - to do a programme but he rejected it,” said his brother Terry. “That would not have been his thing at all.
    “He was a great story teller and talker and had very much his own sense of humour. He’s at peace now and where he has always wanted to be.”

    Veder is survived by brothers Mickey, Terry, Cornelius, Kevin, Philip and Brian and sister Betty. He was pre-deceased by John and five other sisters, Sadie, Celene, Veronica, Rose and Martha.

    ACKNOWLEDGMENT: The Coleraine Times wishes to thank the entire O’Kane family circle for their kind help with this article, particularly Micky O’Kane, Terry O’Kane, Michael Bacon and Veder Doey and also Mark Jamieson for picture research.
     
  9. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    We used to go to Portglenone Abbey when on holiday and visiting our relatives in the North. Dad had some connection there. I would have been 7 when Veder O'Kane joined the community. The family story most often repeated is about my brother Ed who went to confession there as a small boy and spent 'hours' talking to the monk who heard his confession. His brothers, myself not least, gave him such a hard time for keeping us all waiting so long and tried to get out of him what he had been talking about. To this day none of us have ever discovered what it was. Ed has done ok. Thanks for the great article on Brother Veder.
     
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  10. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I knew brother Veder quite well, Bobby. He was a real saint, a hermit. He always reminded me of a Vulcan from Star Trek for some reason.
    :)
    [​IMG]

    He was quite dark in colouring and had a serious caste to himself , like a man on a mission. Which I suppose he was in way.

    I am surprised he died so young. He was serious but I think he had a twinkle in his eye.

    I recall him best for the habit of ambushing me and appearing suddenly and asking me, 'For a word'. This comes from the Fathers of the Desert who used to ask each other for a spiritual Word...a spiritual bone to chew on through the day, such as say I said,

    'The angels are always round you, you are never alone'.

    Well that would be a bone to chew over. But every time he asked me I used to stutter and stop I was so surprised and he used to go away laughing.

    [​IMG]

    The hidden village (a deserted hard to find village) were Brother Veder lived as a hermit.
     
  11. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    I never knew brother Veder but I knew his brothers Corny and Kevin 'the elder' in London. Its a small world.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I have nearly lost my way on this thread. But I think what I was coming to write is that we need a spirituality that is best for ourselves and our own age/ needs/ situation.

    For instance take the Venerable Matt Talbot. Matt was a humble labourer who lived back around the start of the 20th century and lived a very penitential life. He wore heavy chains , constantly and constantly was in deep fasting. His spiritual life was really a constant list of penances. Awesome.

    But I am afraid in my own poor experience , when after I have tried the path of penance, as a general rule it has ended up in a path of complete, total and absolute failure.:D:D:D

    I am afraid as far as I am concerned the body really does rule the roost. On the one side these constant total failures can of made me really question if I was just too useless the follow the path of holiness, to become a saint as God calls us.

    On the other hand these constant failures were just what I needed . For if I had succeeded under my own efforts it would have been a house built on the bog of pride and useless. I needed to constantly fail with my own efforts in order that there might be success through, with and in God's grace.

    Another thing I think is that modern 21st century man is often not the same, we are radically different in our physical needs than in former times. We are used to central heating, few of us in our whole lives have ever experienced hunger or unmitigated extreme pain and danger of death, extreme discomfort and so on.

    So we have not ,so to speak the stamina to enter the extreme path as formerly was the case.

    It is a bit like plants. Some are hardy enough , you can plant them out in the middle of winter.

    But we moderns are hot house plants and need the green house, a more gentle path, I think.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    Surely, between us we can find the path to sanctity by the least arduous route:LOL::LOL:;). Only joking folks!

    I am convinced that the power of TRUST and absolute ABANDONMENT to God is key in all of this.

    As is Devotion to our Lady. Personally, I have made greater strides in the last few years through the help of our Lady than any other time in my life!

    As one who has really struggled to find myself free of old and annoying sins it is such a relief to be free that I feel I am floating on air.

    Free at last. Free at last. Thank God, Almighty I am free at last.

    And it is due to our Lady and her direct involvement in my life.

    The greatest single Divine revelation in my life - I have a real mother in Heaven looking after me - and I was born of the Feast of the Visitation (my favourite verses of Holy Scriptures). There are only God instances!

    Hail, Queen of heav'n, the ocean star.
    Guide the wand'rer here below!
    Thrown on life's surge we claim thy care.
    Save us from peril and from woe.
    Mother of Christ, Star of the sea,
    Pray for the wanderer. Pray for me.


    O gentle, chaste, and spotless Maid,
    We sinners make our prayers thro' thee.
    Remind thy Son that He has paid
    The price of our iniquity.
    Virgin most pure, Star of the sea,
    Pray for the sinner. Oh, pray for me.


    Sojourners in this vale of tears,
    To thee, blest advocate, we cry.
    Oh, pity our sorrows, calm our fears.
    And soothe with hope our misery.
    Refuge in grief, Star of the sea,
    Pray for the mourner, Oh, pray for me.


     
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  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    It is a but like climbing a mountain ,Bobby. When I was young I used to climb straight up the mountain. But as time when on and I slowed down I looked for easier slower ways. It still got you there in one piece.

    I was going to turn to what St Therese says on the subject, her 'Little Way'.



     
  15. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    You know Archbishop Fulton Sheen rarely fasted!! He found it too difficult.

    Yet, this saint managed to visit Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament for an hour a day for every day of his priestly ministry. Truly a miraculous achievement!

    Fulton Sheen:

    On the day of my Ordination, I made two resolutions:

    1. I would offer the Holy Eucharist every Saturday in honor of the Blessed Mother to solicit her protection on my priesthood. The Epistle to the Hebrews bids the priest offer sacrifices not only for others, but also for himself, since his sins are greater because of the dignity of the office.

    2. I resolved also to spend a continuous Holy Hour every day in the presence of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.

    [​IMG]
    In the course of my priesthood I have kept both of these resolutions. The Holy Hour had its origin in a practice I developed a year before I was ordained. The big chapel in St. Paul's Seminary would be locked by six o'clock; there were still private chapels available for private devotions and evening prayers. This particular evening during recreation, I walked up and down outside the closed major chapel for almost an hour. The thought struck me - why not make a Holy Hour of adoration in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament? The next day I began, and the practice is now well over sixty years old.
     
  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I love Fulton Sheen for his warm humanity.
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    This is the view from my office window this morning after a night shift
     
  18. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I feel kind of strange this morning. I guess it was about a month or more ago I took a turn in the office and got taken away be Cardiac ambulance to hospital. In the ambulance I could not move my arms or legs and so made a very sincere Act of Contrition. LOL

    They thought at first it was a mini stroke (a TIA) and did tests. But after a lot of tests came up negative they released me from charge and I don't think they really knew what happened to me. I fretted a bit that it was all in my mind.

    But last Thruday a kind of shadow came over my right eye and syaed on and off. I finally got to the young Doctor yesterday and I could see he was very concerned. He is worried about me having a stroke, thinks something is seriously worried about my heart and is sending me back urgently to the hsopital for more tests.

    I take it from what he said he is concerned that I might like a little bird fall off the perch at any moment.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    So it ironic I was writng this little thread about prayer and the body. You don't get to my age without thinking how passing is life. A few days ago I felt Our LAdy say to me in prayer, 'be prepared'. I see now what she meant.

    Pope St John 23rd , when he was told he had terminal stomache cancer said, simply. My bags are packed'.

    Well I suppose mine are packed too and have been for many years. I have always had for so, so very long this huge hunger and thirst for heaven.

    Yet on the other hand this even greater longing for souls; the souls firstly of sinners of the greatest sinners to save them from hell, but also for the souls deepst in purgatory. It fills me with deep sadness that they might no longer have me to pray and offer up my little sufferings for them. For it is here on Earth we can do the greatest good by haning on the Cross for our dear sisters and brothers. In the enxt life too we cna help, but every second of this life is the most imprtant one. Nor will we get a second bite of the cherry.

    So the young Doctor has left me kind of hanging between two worlds. He says if there are any more symptoms I must rush to the hospital. He looked so serious. I should maybe keep my running shoes on.

    What can I say? Whatever God wishes I adore and delighted with. May God's wil lbe done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Domine Iesu, dimitte nobis debita nostra, libera nos ab igne inferiori, perduc in caelum omnes animas, praesertim eas, quae misericordiae tuae maxime indigent. Amen.

    O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy mercy. Amen
    [​IMG]
     

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