I wont have the Roman Catholic faith diluted by credulity, self-indulgence, fantasy, personal circumstance or any other such nonsense. Roman Catholicism is a difficult faith, a battle. And I'm here to help in that fight. Combative with a take-no-prisoners attitude; if you wish to argue with me on a point, I welcome that. However you should be alive to the notion that - if your argument is weak - I will shred you. Its nothing personal, its an intellectual pursuit. I am increasingly confident that - working within the boundaries of Science, Human Reason and the Modern world - we can provide support for the Catholic Church, its teachings and mission. Again, if you have something to say, I am happy to listen.... but make sure you have resources to back it up! Finally, I am always, always, always open to listening, learning and growing.
Welcome to the forum. I bring up weak arguments on a regular basis, so I guess I can look forward to being shredded. Might as well get straight to the point,The Consecration of Russia.Do you believe it has been done or not?
Very good question. Unfortunately, as a Catholic, I have to unequivocally accept the word of the Holy Father. If he says it was done, it was done. (Now I understand that some think this-pope-or-that-pope lied about the issue but, at the end of the day, as Catholics we accept that the Holy Spirit guides the Church and its leaders. If they 'lied', they lied because the Holy Spirit willed it so. If there is an anti-Pope or an anti-Christ its is because God wills it so. If it is untrue then it is untrue because it fulfills the Will of God; if it is 'wrong', it is 'wrong' because it is the Will of god; Welcome to Catholicism )
Don't send me a link. Which Pope said it was done? Should be a simple answer. Sending a link is a weak answer. Maybe you will have to go shred yourself, for your intellectual pursuit.
If I said Pius XII and didnt provide a link, you'd be moaning about that too, I imagine. Its been done. Several times. I've provided ample evidence. Its not the answer you want, obviously. I hear you, as many others across the world do; every Pope is involved in a conspiracy to... what? not consecrate Russia? (Because... what? Thats the bit I dont get. Maybe you could explain how your paranoia sees things. Are all Popes bad? This is just a Heretical/Protestant fantasy, like the rapture. Complete nonsense.) But hey, ho go on living that fantasy, I guess for people of limited intelligence its easier than living the Faith.
Where is a quote from a Pope saying the consecration is done? You provided a link where there is no such quote. 'Again, if you have something to say, I am happy to listen.... but make sure you have resources to back it up!' So back it up! I thought you were open to learning and growing, the evidence is to the contrary. Provide a quote from a Pope that it is done.
Youre nit-picking; you have an agenda you cant let go of, but I'll indulge you if only for a giggle; Pope Pius XII on July 7 1952 consecrated the Peoples of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno. Pius XII stated: Job done. Take your Heresy to a protestant site...
No one on this forum accepts the 1952 letter as job done. Although you are doing a pretty good job of pulling your pants down and being spanked.
Does the Catholic Church teach that there are times when God suspends our free will? Is lying sinful? If it is, does the Holy Spirit will people to sin? Have previous anti-Popes been willed by God or permitted by God? If they were willed by God to be anti-Popes, did God remove their free will when enforcing his own will to make them anti-Popes? When the Holy Spirit guides the Church's leaders, does he force them to follow that guidance, thereby removing their free will? Why don't you wait to find out whether you will fit in? If you don't fit in nobody will force you to stay.
Take your sanctimonious and condescending commenting habits elsewhere. They are not welcome here. Whether what you believe is true, and that's certainly debatable, the "truth" used as a 2x4 between the eyes isn't going to convince or convert anyone except the guy in the mirror.
Macadamia, as Sam points out Pius the XII consecration was not done as Our Lady requested, and it was incomplete. It is important to note here that Sor Lucia writes that in May of 1952 Our Lady made it known to her that she was still awaiting the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart (my source is from Zavala's book and I think his source is from her memoirs). That was a message that got to the pope through Fr Gustav Wetter, director of the Colligium Russicum in Rome, and that is what moved the pope to write Sacro Vergente. However after Sacro Vergente Sor Lucia maintained the same line that the consecration was still not done, and she was able to get her message through to John XIII, who completely dismissed her ( "prophets of calamities"), then to Paul VI who did the consecration in1964 also not accepted by Lucia , and finally to JPII, who did one consecration in 1982 and then (again due to Lucia's insistence) another in 1984 which is very similar in form and content to the 1964 one and finally was supposed to address simply and plainly the "consecration of Russia" (not the peoples of Russia) with all the bishops, but JPII at the last minute was pressured to change the line and instead it became a consecration of the whole world, like all the previous consecrations (though interiorly he certainly meant to consecrate Russia). While as Catholics we should be docile and trusting in the popes, we can't forget that the sensus fidelium has played a critical role precisely at the most troubled times in the history of the Church (the Arian heresy, the Muslim invasion of Europe in the early Middle Ages, even today in the Catholics of the Middle East or China's underground Church whose example contrasts greatly with the rethoric of many High Prelates that seek compromise) or for the declaration of important dogmas, like the immaculate conception. The fact that there is an important and now growing part of committed Catholics that continue to have the sense that the consecration has not been done completely, and that such consecration is critical to the effective Triump of the Immaculate Heart in the never seen times, should make us reflect. Think that Cardinal Burke's late call for the consecration of Russia is the result of the insistence f many faithful, it is coming from the ground up. So of course we could be damn wrong, but in order to be docile in this instance it seems we need to bury our reason and good sense in the ground and trust in Cardinal Bertone's statement (not a pope's statement) or a Mr Evaristo of sorts that the consecration has been done.
There have been complaints. I have launched Macademia into the beyond world were there will be no more foul language or punching of the overly aggressive around. This is not the Rocky VI comeback forum.
