It seems when Pope Francis visits Canada, aspects of indigenous culture, will be inculturated into the Mass such as the use of smoke, song, dance, costume and also a bowl of smoldering cedar, sage, sweetgrass and tobacco -- the common aromatics will be used for a smudge ceremony -- John Paul II in a Mass to beatify Mexican Indians also allowed some indigenous practises (see 1 min 46 onwards). Smoke, leaves etc -- For the Novus Ordo read Novel Ordo -- I cannot help but feel (I could be wrong) that such tampering with the rubrics of the Mass is only really possible with the NO Mass. I cannot see how one could inculturate these things into the Traditional Latin Mass. It seems to me that this constant tampering with the Mass is part of the diabolical disorientation that we are all living through -- Food for thought -- I would be really interested in people's thoughts -
Novelties in sacred worship have always been condemned by the Church fathers and saints and previous popes. So I agree with you. Very disturbing.
I agree with you, garabandal. And AED. We had a dance-a-rama Mass with costumed dancers from another culture in the Cathedral in DC. It hurt my heart to see the first part of the video. It’s just not holy and should have been condemned instead of encouraged.
Part of a recent message from St. Michael to Luz de Maria: Pray, children of Our King and Lord Jesus Christ, pray for Canada: it will be scourged. https://www.countdowntothekingdom.com/luz-a-crown-will-role/ I truly believe that until people, whoever they are, whatever happened to them, start to forgive instead of demanding justice, things will get worse... Penance Penance Penance, as Our Lady of Akita recently requested....
Agree, Lois. This grievance culture we are in is toxic. It feeds the worst instincts in people. It is very destructive spiritually.
This can't be good. Thinking about the message Sister Agnes received before the terrible Pachamama ceremony in 2019 that ushered in Covid. I am frightened to even think about the consequences of this ceremony in Canada. Could this lead to another chastisement?
At the very least - as with Pachamama - it contributes to the continuing SPLIT amongs Catholics Of course it is... The tampering began in the 1970's Decades ago I attended a Mass in a Cathedral celebrated by a Bishop Unterer - replete with some nuns prancing swaying up the aisle wearing flimsy outfits - as a supposed Liturgical Dance of a reading from Jerimiah.. My thoughts.. For over 50 years now, as an adult - 'things' have been going from bad to worse.. I wouldn't set foot in any 'church' which serves up Poison as Food. AND? .. Cultivating My Faith in God via Jesus - grows - and buoys my Hope in His Return
Is the 'SPLIT' you describe but a voluntary parting of the sheep and the goats (with apologies to all goats, who are likeable animals, albeit somewhat cheekier than sheep)? Lines and differences are becoming clearer, but they surely existed beforehand and is it not better to know one's enemy?
Be Right Back Re: Voluntary parting .. No.. The SPLIT occurred in the aftermath of the Global Counter Cultural Revolution of the latter 196o's combo of mind-altering drugs, antiVietnam, AntiAmerican, AntiAuthoritarian spirit which seriously divided what were politically labelled - Liberal vs Conservative. . The first grumblings within Catholicism were very few and far between .. and concerned those Catholics who rejected the no-condom/pills portion of Paul VI's Humane Vitae - 1968 (3 years AFTER Vat II completed! .. I know whom most of the Enemy within the Church are.. THEOLOGICAL ABUSES Bastardizing and Disoobeying Vat II, our well-known highly revered hi-Intellectual Teaching Order Priests began preaching Apostasy, Clown Masses, Sr. Shack Up, HomoSexuality in Seminaries, Novitiates, Cath EDU, the Altar. - Those Catholics of the Secular Liberal Mindsets moved right into the Church bringing with them their open-minded antiAuthoritarian spirit . And gobbled up - no holds barred - anything and everything which was laid before them.. They were, "Change-Addicts" SPLIT? MY PARISH? Two Bldgs: One the Church, the other a Hall.. Conversatives (who mostly begrudgingly accepted changes) went to the Church.. and Liberals to the Hall. And the twain never met.. Day and Night. MY LARGE DIOCESE? Everyone knew which (few) Parishes/Bishops remained loyal. One problem back when which played/plays into the hands of the Enemy? IS? In general, including many priests/bishops back when -> IMHO - Paltry knowledges of NT and Magisterium There's much more to tell.
Frankly, I should qualify what I meant by 'voluntary'. Not that this split is what we want, absolutely not, but that the split is created by our choices, which are of course voluntary. Nobody can claim they were forced to abort a child, indeed many seem gleefully enthusiastic at the prospect, or at least wildly outraged at anything that might inhibit them. Likewise, all these options for alternative sexual life-styles are voluntarily taken.
I understand what you're qualifying // specifying.. Yes. And on that note, I do believe that in some way or manner we'll all be faced with accepting or rejecting our Lord's GOSPEL - which orbits around our Obedience to God's Command: Love Neighbor, Love God (Love). In My Belief, God OF COURSE KNOWS ALL of our individual circumstances.. And In His Wisdom and MERCY, He'll Judge all individuals - Justly!
As far as I recall Fr Matteo Rici a Jesuit whose cause for canonisation is well ahead asked for permission from Rome to adapt the Liturgy to Chinese needs and was refused by Rome. Historians speculate that is such changes were allowed China might well be Catholic today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Ricci Ricci's approach to Chinese culture An early 17th-century depiction of Ricci in Chinese robes. Ricci could speak Chinese as well as read and write classical Chinese, the literary language of scholars and officials. He was known for his appreciation of Chinese culture in general but condemned the prostitution which was widespread in Beijing at the time.[20] During his research, he discovered that in contrast to the cultures of South Asia, Chinese culture was strongly intertwined with Confucian values and therefore decided to use existing Chinese concepts to explain Christianity.[21] With his superior Valignano's formal approval, he aligned himself with the Confucian intellectually elite literati,[22] and even adopted their mode of dress. He did not explain the Catholic faith as entirely foreign or new; instead, he said that the Chinese culture and people always believed in God and that Christianity is simply the completion of their faith.[23]: 323 He borrowed an unusual Chinese term, Tiānzhǔ (天主, "Lord of Heaven") to describe the God of Abraham, despite the term's origin in traditional Chinese worship of Heaven. (He also cited many synonyms from the Confucian Classics.) He supported Chinese traditions by agreeing with the veneration of family ancestors. Dominican and Franciscan missionaries considered this an unacceptable accommodation, and later appealed to the Vatican on the issue.[23]: 324 This Chinese rites controversy continued for centuries, with the most recent Vatican statement as recently as 1939. Some contemporary authors have praised Ricci as an exemplar of beneficial inculturation,[24][25] avoiding at the same time distorting the Gospel message or neglecting the indigenous cultural media.[26] Like developments in India, the identification of European culture with Christianity led almost to the end of Catholic missions in China, but Christianity continued to grow in Sichuan and some other locations.[23]: 324 Xu Guangqi and Ricci become the first two to translate some of the Confucian classics into a western language, Latin. Ricci also met a Korean emissary to China, teaching the basic tenets of Catholicism and donating several books.[27] Along with João Rodrigues's gifts to the ambassador Jeong Duwon in 1631, Ricci's gifts influenced the creation of Korea's Silhak movement.[28] The statue of Ricci in downtown Macao, unveiled on 7 August 2010, the anniversary of his arrival on the island
This makes the mass illicit. The question then is at what point does the inclusion of these pagan practices make the mass itself invalid, in which no transubstantiation occurs and Christ is therefore not truly present in the Eucharist.
This article - which is very 'theological' ... ... makes for an argument of which I think? claims that valid Consecration still takes place during an Invalid Mass. I don't know.. Invalid Masses -- Catholic Answers JIMMY AKIN • 5/1/1999 https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/invalid-masses
Illicit masses are still “valid,” i.e., transubstantiation still takes place. If no transubstantiation takes place, the mass is “invalid.” That’s a high bar. It’s difficult for transubstantiation NOT to occur and rare in most Masses today; as long as the priest is validly ordained and has the proper intent, form and matter, the priest almost has to do something on purpose at this point, but it can and does happen. IF a “new” mass is promulgated right now, with the current regime in the Vatican, all bets are off. It would have to be meticulously examined by competent orthodox Catholic authorities.
