https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/20/pope-juan-carlos-cruz Pope Francis tells gay man: 'God made you like this' Juan Carlos Cruz, who was sexually abused, says pontiff told him God did not mind that he was gay Stephanie KirchgaessnerLast modified on Sun 20 May 2018 18.15 EDT Juan Carlos Cruz, who was sexually abused, says pontiff told him God did not mind that he was gay A survivor of clerical sexual abuse has said Pope Francis told him that God had made him gay and loved him, in arguably the most strikingly accepting comments about homosexuality to be uttered by the leader of the Roman Catholic church. Juan Carlos Cruz, who spoke privately with the pope two weeks ago about the abuse he suffered at the hands of one of Chile’s most notorious paedophiles, said the issue of his sexuality had arisen because some of the Latin American country’s bishops had sought to depict him as a pervert as they accused him of lying about the abuse. “He told me, ‘Juan Carlos, that you are gay does not matter. God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are,’” Cruz told Spanish newspaper El País. Now 87, Fernando Karadima, the man who abused Cruz, was found guilty of abuse by the Vatican in 2011. Greg Burke, the Vatican’s chief spokesman, did not respond to questions about whether Cruz’s statement accurately reflected his conversation with the pope. It is not the first time it has been suggested Francis has an open and tolerant attitude toward homosexuality, despite the Catholic church’s teaching that gay sex – and all sex outside of heterosexual marriage – is a sin. In July 2013, in response to a reporter’s question about the existence of an alleged “gay lobby” within the Vatican, Francis said: “Who am I to judge?” The new remarks appear to go much further in embracing homosexuality as a sexual orientation that is designed and bestowed by God. It suggests that Francis does not believe that individuals choose to be gay or lesbian, as some religious conservatives argue. Austen Ivereigh, who has written a biography of the pope, said Francis had likely made similar comments in private in the past, when he served as a spiritual director to gay people in Buenos Aires, but that Cruz’s public discussion of his conversation with Francis represented the most “forceful” remarks on the subject since 2013. It did not, however, represent a shift in church teaching, Ivereigh said, since the church had never formally made any pronouncements on why individuals were gay. Christopher Lamb, the Vatican correspondent for the Tablet, said the comments were remarkable and a sign of a shift in attitudes taking place. “It goes beyond ‘who am I to judge?’ to ‘you are loved by God,’” said Lamb. “I don’t think he has changed church teaching but he’s demonstrating an affirmation of gay Catholics, something that has been missing over the years in Rome.” The remarks come as several high profile members of the clergy have sought to publicly make inroads with gay Catholics, many of whom have felt shunned and unwelcome in the church and have been ostracised. Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest in New York who has nearly 200,000 Twitter followers, has led the outreach effort and was chosen last month to serve as a consultor to the Vatican’s secretariat for communications. Martin has argued in his book Building a Bridge that the onus is on the church to make LGBT Catholics feel welcome in the church and to stop discriminating against people based on their “sexual morality”.
This is Rank Material Heresy and contrary to the Teachings of the Catholic Church. What is more the Vatican Press Office are not even trying to do the usual clean up act on this one. We are way, way, way out in the open with this stuff now. God makes sexual perverts;, perverts and we should all be cool about it. Wonderful. God clearly owes a big, big apology to Sodom and Gomorrah. Talk about reinventing the Catholic Church. Mind blowing.
I feel sick about this, no more reading the writing on the wall its now an open book. Going to offer another rosary for the Pope and his cohorts at the Vatican.
The CCC 2358 actually states that homosexuals "do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial". [Edit to add: this was an error in the original version of the CCC that was corrected in subsequent versions. See Praetorian’s reply below. -Moderator] I actually think that it is true that many homosexuals feel that they were "born that way". However, for some others I think it has become an acceptable lifestyle choice that they see as rebellious or cool (yes, some think that!) . I remember a little boy in my first grade class who was very effeminate and preferred to have girls for friends. He has remained that way into adulthood. He certainly seems to have been made that way. I obviously don't have any answers as to why, but it could be a the result of a hormonal disruption of some sorts in utero...who knows. I have my own personal opinion on the homosexual condition. Some people are born with physical disabilities, some with mental disabilities; some of which are quite severe. I'm not sure if God makes people that way or if He allows it. I personally see homosexuality as something of a sexual disability; a HUGE cross to bear that must be overcome through much prayer, diligence, and self control. How difficult it must be for those who don't want to be attracted to the same gender! Why is the author in this article saying it is a problem if Pope Francis tells a homosexual that "they are loved by God"? It's a true statement, isn't it? God loves the sinner, not the sin, right? I am no huge fan of Pope Francis by any means. I think that my biggest issue is that he didn't, according to the article, reaffirm church teaching (AGAIN!) about the importance of maintaining a chaste lifestyle. That is the vital piece that he seems to keep forgetting in these conversations. The "go forth and sin no more" bit.
It's an article in the Guardian. They would have no problem with the Pope telling someone that God made him homosexual. They might have a problem with someone believing that there is a God. That the Pope - any Pope - said that people are loved by God is hardly newsworthy. I'm wondering how Pope Francis came to the conclusion after a single meeting that God is responsible for that particular man's homosexuality.
Wow! How right you are pray4peace. Nobody preaches obedience anymore. As long as we love each other all is okay. Well it's not.
P4P, the line you are citing as coming from the CCC was a mistake put in the first edition that was explicitly taken out of the revised edition because it was wrong. It is not part of Catholic teaching. http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=373255&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu= The correct and revised CCC 2358 reads: 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
The MSM has an agenda and it most certainly is not the truth. One has to wonder if this man's statements regarding the Pope have any accuracy or are we reading yet more vague recollections of a conversation that is left hanging in the wind as usual.
I wish this were so. But on checking the press this morning it is widely reported in all the big world papers. Even the Liberals are astounded. More tellingly the Vatican has no published no retraction whatsoever. I am afraid the days when we might wish such incredible public heresies away as some kind of misunderstanding are long, long gone. The heretic Pope said it and the Vatican is in no rush to retract or modify it...if they ever do. Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-chile-gay-20180520-story.html The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/20/pope-juan-carlos-cruz Crux https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/05...ope-francis-told-him-being-gay-doesnt-matter/ In either case the guy has bad history on this; as he has on lots and lots and lots and lots of other things.
Geez. Thanks Praetorian. Go figure I would find one of the few lines that needed retracting. I guess I need a new CCC now...
It seems to me like this is fishing,.. you throw the chum out there,... it stinks, but if you leave it out long enough, it attracts the fish. These apostles are not fishers of men though, but more like shepherds who have abandoned the flock. Next time we sit at table with relatives with the pro-gay mentality, where does this leave us?
This is another example of one sin leading to another & then leading to another, etc. and I am reminded of Our Lady of Garabandal's alleged message, "...Before, the cup was filling up. Now it is flowing over. Many cardinals, many bishops, and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them..."
I wish that they were merely abandoning the flock. It is far worse than that. They are introducing error and in some cases pretending to pass it off as Catholic teaching. If they were merely abandoning us to our own devices they would say to the flock "You're on your own." instead they are saying "Here are some nice wolves I'd like to introduce you to." View attachment 7927
This was in the first reading at mass last Wednesday. May 16, 2018 ACTS 20:28-38 At Miletus, Paul spoke to the presbyters of the Church of Ephesus: “Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the Church of God that he acquired with his own Blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them. So be vigilant and remember that for three years, night and day, I unceasingly admonished each of you with tears. ........
Im pretty sure he didn't say this. Just like the interaction with the kids "your dad is in heaven" was not not reported correctly, we see this all the time with this pope
Accept for a second he never said this. Why is the Vatican or the Pope not denying he said this? Why is it front page news all over the world and not a word of denial? Why is it being allowed to stand as is, causing huge scandal and confusion? Is allowing something like this to stand without denial not equally as bad as if he did say it? Wishing he did not say it, or hoping he did not say it does not make it so.
It seems the usual modus operandus. As with his atheist friend who claimed that Pope Francis said that there is no Hell, but which was followed by absolutely no affirmation by him of the existence of Hell, so this is a statement by a third party, hearsay essentially, but which will most likely not be followed by any correction of the facts. It is a wily strategy because it avoids direct accusations of heresy. It seems to be working in this world. It won't carry much weight in the Next. Not only is the notion of a genetic basis of homosexuality in denial of long-term Church teaching, no scientific evidence has been found for such an assertion. The vast bulk of psychological data is weighted on the side of homosexual attraction being a developmental process. Even the perverts themselves are abandoning the notion, because they have moved on to the stage whereby all sexual identity is now a function of the autonomous will. One can be a homosexual today, but choose to be something else entirely tomorrow ( though preferably not a heterosexual). There is also the fear for these people that if a gene for homosexuality was isolated that could be detected during pregnancy, a very large proportion of homosexuals would be aborted and they know all too well that most self-proclaimed liberals are really only virtue-signallers who would show no mercy when these issues get too close to home. In such a scenario, homosexuals would have to look to Christians to defend them, an utterly appalling vista for the more militant ones. They need not worry overmuch, because this identity is primarily a spiritual choice, one which can be abandoned readily enough if the will is there, hence their determination to ban all therapy which endeavours to restore homosexuals to heterosexuality-logically, if it was impossible or extremely difficult, such attempted bans would be unnecessary. If the homosexual lobby is attempting to introduce this heresy, they are doing so, not only in defiance of the constant tradition of Judeo-Christianity, and most other world religions for that matter, but also in defiance of all respectably proven biology and psychology.
Yes it is teaching by the back door. Plausible deniability in everything. See how far you can push things. The Jesuit way.
