“I’M NOT INTERESTED IN CONVERTING EVANGELICALS TO CATHOLICISM.”

I find this to be very disconcerting (a"sign of the times"?) How can anyone believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not want the whole world to share in it?


“I’M NOT INTERESTED IN CONVERTING EVANGELICALS TO CATHOLICISM.”

http://blog.steveskojec.com/2014/07/11/im-not-interested-in-converting-evangelicals-to-catholicism/

Pope Francis, who will soon preach at a Pentecostal church in Rome — and plans to offer them “an apology from my church for the hurt it has brought to their congregation.”

(No word on whether the Penetecostals will apologize for their propagation of heresy.)

In any case, the Vicar of Christ evidently doesn’t want anything to do with that solemn nonsense known as “evangelization.” Again, he tells a non-Catholic he has no intention to try to convert anyone:

It’s fair to ask what kind of Catholic Church we as Evangelicals want to see. At lunch I asked Pope Francis what his heart was for evangelism. He smiled, knowing what was behind my question. His comment was, “I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.”​

I’ve talked before about Cardinal Kasper’s dismissal of the “ecumenism of return”. People who question why Kasper is a hand-picked adviser of the pope fail to recognize the congruencies in their theology (or anti-theology, as the case may be.) All one needs to do is refrain from projecting the orthodoxy they desire in a pope on a man who holds the office but has little interest in what it is meant to signify, and the mystery solves itself.

Matthew 7:15-20 comes to mind.

(Source)

 

I will still pray for their conversion.

 

Caution! This is something someone else said the Pope said. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear.

 

In that case I'm certain the Vatican will issue a clarification.

What should we assume when the Vatican remains quiet on this claim too?

 

Quite true Kathy. We must confirm this before getting worked up.

 

I have no doubt that the quote is accurate. For those who find themselves scandalised with this approach, I would suggest they reflect on Jesus' response to the Apostles:

John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us." But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. "For he who is not against us is for us.…
(Mark 9:38-40)

All the Popes of recent times have followed this approach and we should follow them.

 

I've just found this very clear commentary on the above Scriptural quote:

It is as though our Lord said, "Do not forbid him; do not hinder him from a good work - a work which does honor to me and to my cause; because, although he does not actually follow me as you do, he is nevertheless engaged in the same cause; he is celebrating my Name by the casting out of evil spirits. Therefore he is not opposing my Name; on the contrary, he is publishing and recommending it." Here is a warning against that exclusive spirit, which is eager for its own ends rather than for Christ's glory, and would limit the exercise of his gifts and graces to its own system or school, instead of inquiring whether those whom it condemns are not working in Christ's name and for the promotion of his glory, although it may be allowable to think that in some instances they might find a more excellent way.

 

Before reacting, it's well worth not only reading the whole article by Brian Stiller of the World Evangelical Alliance linked to as the source for the original post, but also taking a look at his Twitter feed
https://twitter.com/bcslms
where he calls Pope Francis 'A remarkable pastor and prophet whose influence is just beginning to be felt' (June 26). Clearly something at least is getting through here...

Whether you see all this as positive or negative depends largely on your mindset. On balance I see a bit of both. On one hand Brian Stiller's article makes it clear that he (unlike Tony Palmer who is arguing for outright reunion) belongs to a constituency whose inherited theological framework makes current reunification with Rome impossible. He is one of those who are proud of the Reformation - that's his story and he's sticking to it. This is certainly frustrating theologically speaking, and it strongly suggests that if one day the Body of Christ will indeed once again be one as our Lord himself wished, this will come about via an Act of God, not human effort.

On the level of doctrine there really isn't a lot you can do with folks like this until they understand that Sola Scriptura (the error that makes all the others intellectually possible) is a logical impossibility for two very basic reasons: i) Scripture itself never states it, meaning that it has to be imported from outside, therefore making S.S. a contradiction in terms ii) an essential principle of hermeneutics regarding any text, not just the Bible, is that there is no such thing as uninterpreted data. Sola Scriptura effectively always means 'the literal text plus my personal opinion' (this is why the Reformers were at each others' throats from the get-go, with Luther for example calling Zwingli the Devil). There's just no way round this. Unfortunately, most 'evangelical's (using the term sociologically, as in the truest, noblest sense of the word all Christians ought to be Evangelical) lack the basic philosophical training which would allow them to understand these problems. All their lives they have been authoritatively taught that the Reformation was God's Great Gift to humanity, and I think we have to comprehend that in this sort of dialogue it's impossible for even a Pope to overturn a long-standing framework over lunch!! Indeed, to try would not only be poor hospitality but probably only be counter-productive, simply reinforcing inherited stereotypes, which would be of no use to anyone.

Here the question needs to be asked - is the goal to argue Protestants into embracing the fullness of Catholic truth by engaging in combative apologetics, or is the goal simply that they would return in God's good time, in the meanwhile deepening their relationship with Christ which cannot simply be reduced to doctrine but involves the wholeness of Christian living? If you see things from the latter standpoint, it seems obvious - and this is what I find extremely positive - that Pope Francis's example, above all his humility, is a great witness. The courage that it took Brian Stiller to undertake this dialogue should also not be under-estimated, as the likelihood is that he will face huge pushback from his own tribe, accusations of betrayal, apostasy etc. etc.

A second question which needs asking is this - who do you think has a better intuitive grasp of what is going on at a deeper spiritual level here? A Protestant leader who, for all the limitations of his inherited theology, nonetheless calls the Pope a 'remarkable pastor and prophet', or a blogger (blog.steveskojec.com) accountable to nobody who insinuates that the Vicar of Christ is 'a man who holds the office but has little interest in what it is meant to signify'?

 

The way the world is going Catholics, Evangelicals & Orthodox will be united together in communion & prayer - in the Gulags!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe

 

I hate coming across as heavy but we have to watch the bash the Pope stuff.

One thing I notice is that we get a drop dead scarey statement that the Pope is supposed to have made, then it is investigated and it is all so much hot air. I am really starting to think the devil is stirring the pot.

I suspect Pope Francis is a great saint and should be treated as such. we must be careful in case we are being used by the Enemy.

 

Thank you Peter for your reply. Your replies are always educational for me anyway and full of wisdom and balance. The part I quoted above resonates with me.

I've come to admire many Christians outside the Catholic Church because they so clearly love Christ, are with the Holy Spirit and hence full of wisdom. So they don't yet embrace the fullness of Christian living in the dimensions in the Catholic Church, but that seems to me like a loss rather than a heresy, at least for the sheep following the shepherds. We who have the wholeness in our Church will have to answer to God for all of that one day, and it would mean that more is expected from us. On that front, I totally share your view about our pope's humility being such a wonderful example for us all, especially for other priests.

 

I would like to discuss some of your points Peter, but I will only come across as Pope bashing.What can I do?My hands are tied.

 

Padraig. I'm curious to know whether you would class the quote as "drop dead scarey" if it was the accurately reported words of our Pope.

 

1) I am not "bashing the Pope." Implying that people who are disconcerted by things this Pope is saying are "bashing" him and introducing "evil" into the forum is immature from a Catholic and spiritual perspective and does not foster honest discussion.

2) We must be vigilant in case what is reported here is exactly what was said and how it was intended. It is also possible the devil can use our natural instinct to defend everything a Pope says to further tear down the Church.

 

I think it goes back to the Spiritual Father hood of the Holy Father Brian. ..and yes he is our Spiritual Father, given to us by God.

I had a Spiritual Father since I was 15 until he died many decades later of cancer. I always took his words as from the lips of Jesus Himself. This may sound a heard thing to do but it gave me strength when all around me things seem to be collapsing.

I think this idea of Spiritual Fatherhood ,of the Pope standing in the steps of St Peter, who himself stood in the steps of Jesus is a very Catholic, very spiritual stance. It reminds me of Jesus in Scripture

St John Chapter 6

Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
Peter's reply must be our won. The Holy Father is not a President, or a Buisness Leader, or the Chairman of a gold club, he is our Spiritual Father..and as Peter said,
'.....to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”


We do not have the right to pick and choose . This cuts the very heart of Catholicism. I think the human approach to the Pope of second guessing him is basically a secular, Protestant approach.

..and where did this get our Protestant sisters and brothers; by all accounts there are 30,000 sects of them?

The bottom line is we don't get to pick and choose, we don't get to vote, anymore than as children we got to second guess our own fathers.

 

The bigger picture is that every time the Pope says something...people take it to the extreme. Our Holy Father will be judged, by God, on how many souls (through the Holy Spirit and the intercession of of Our blessed Mother) he has saved. The Popes primary job is to evangelize to the world...the Salvation of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Once the hearts are opened they will gradually come to the understanding that Our Holy Mother Church is the ultimate guide to sainthood.

Its easy to take Our Holy Fathers words and interpret them in a worldly fashion. Except Papa Francis was chosen by God to lead Our Holy Mother Church in the salvation of All Souls not just Catholic Souls.

If one really discerns the statement

“I’M NOT INTERESTED IN CONVERTING EVANGELICALS TO CATHOLICISM.”
There is deep spirituality behind the statement...Papa Francis is not interested in converting evangelicals to catholicism. Our Holy Fathers primary interest is in converting ALL souls to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

May Gods Will be Done

 

I think a good example of seeing what happens when we succumb to human thinking and human, 'Obedience' is Archbishop Carey and the Anglican Communion;


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28278324

 

http://www.catholictradition.org/Saints/virtue6.htm

 

Lord Carey
"Today we face a central paradox. In strictly observing the sanctity of life, the Church could now actually be promoting anguish and pain, the very opposite of a Christian message of hope."

Anguish & pain are the opposite of hope? What about the Crucifixion?

There are so called believers who want a Christ without a Cross.

The Cross is an obstacle for some.