https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...e-and-calls-anti-lgbt-laws-unjust/ar-AA16J43i Pope Francis says ‘homosexuality is not a crime’ and calls anti-LGBT+ laws ‘unjust’ Pope Francis called on Catholic bishops to welcome LGBT+ people into the church, referring to laws criminalising homosexuality as “unjust” and marking a shift in Vatican’s attitude toward gay rights in recent years. The head of the Catholic Church said there should be a distinction between a crime and sin. “Being homosexual is not a crime,” he told the Associated Press in an interview. “It’s not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin.” “Fine, but first let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime. “It’s also a sin to lack charity with one another,” he added. Catholic teachings regarding homosexuality are complex. While the church holds that everyone must be treated with respect, it also teaches that homosexual acts are considered “intrinsically disordered”. While Pope Francis has not changed that teaching, he has made some outreach attempts to the LGBT+ community. In 2013, when he was asked about a purportedly gay priest, he said: “Who am I to judge?” As archbishop of Buenos Aires, he favoured granting legal protections to same-sex couples as an alternative to endorsing gay marriage, which Catholic doctrine forbids. He was criticised by the Catholic LGBT+ community for a 2021 decree from the Vatican’s doctrine office that the church cannot bless same-sex unions “because God cannot bless sin”. In his interview with AP, he acknowledged that Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws that criminalise homosexuality or discriminate against the LGBT+ community. But he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone. “These bishops have to have a process of conversion,” he said, adding that they should apply “tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us”. Some 67 countries or jurisdictions worldwide criminalise consensual same-sex sexual activity, 11 of which can or do impose the death penalty, according to The Human Dignity Trust, which works to end such laws. Experts say even where the laws are not enforced, they contribute to harassment, stigmatisation and violence against LGBT+ people. In the US, more than a dozen states still have anti-sodomy laws on the books, despite a 2003 Supreme Court ruling declaring them unconstitutional. Francis also called laws criminalising homosexuality “unjust” and said the Catholic Church can and should work to put an end to them. “It must do this. It must do this,” he said. Francis quoted the catechism of the Catholic Church in saying gay people must be welcomed and respected, and should not be marginalized or discriminated against. “We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity,” he said, speaking to the Associated Press in the Vatican hotel where he lives.
Thanks. That one is well worth reading - and posting in full: https://mundabor.wordpress.com/2023/01/26/francis-the-homos-and-the-strawman/ Francis, The Homos, And The Strawman January 26, 2023 Frankie Boy has, once again, made an ass of himself trying to look all modern and worldly. Homosexuality is not a crime, he says. But it is a sin, he says. He is wrong on both counts. The ignorance of this man never ceases to amaze. The crime thing is a straw man argument. I do not know of any Catholic Country (when such Countries still existed; V II saw to that that they don’t anymore) which criminalises homosexuality, that is: which trials and puts someone to jail for the mere fact of being a pervert. In fact, I am positive that Catholic Countries traditionally only punished the act of sodomy, not the condition (that is: the sexual perversion) of homosexuality. You see: a condition is not an action, it is not something you do, it is something you are. May it well be that, say, the homosexual has sinned many times on his way to festering his perversion into the “born that way” fantasy; still, the law never punished the being, but always the doing, the acting upon the perversion. Similarly, the Church would call a homosexual that does not act upon his perversion still a pervert, but not – in this at least – a sinner. In fact, I am pretty sure that another fact stays: that in Catholic Countries the act was, generally, only made a criminal offence when scandal was given. This means that the homo who took every care not to advertise his horrible condition would not be liable to criminal prosecution for the mere sinful act. This was so, if memory serves, even in the Papal States! Francis does not know what he is talking about. But he knows that he wants to look all modern and understanding, even as he thrashes those horrible people, the Catholics. Mission failed, Frankie boy. Next time you want to insult Catholics, at least try to inform yourself beforehand. Where Francis got his fantasy of the “crime”, he should say. If this is something that applies to Islam he should say that, too. He doesn’t. Francis is clearly using a huge strawman argument here, likely in order to make the social order of our Catholic past past Catholic look bad. I think he is not just merely, as we say in Italy, “giving air to his teeth”. No. Not him. Rather, Francis is deliberately trying to sabotage Catholic culture. That he fails in that, too, is due to the embarrassing ignorance this man continuously displays. The same goes for the “sinful” stuff. Here, it seems to me that there is not only crass ignorance at play, but rather the refusal to accept the reality of sexual perversion, because “who is he to judge”. This must, also, be seen in the light of Francis’ home-baked theology, that there is no sin a priest has no obligation to absolve for, even if there is no contrition and repentance. Therefore, homosexuality is now “downgraded” to something God will automatically forgive; so hey, keep sinning and say to your confessor “I have sinned, father, and I will sin again”. It’s all fine, saith the Francis. You are just a sinner like everybody else. You will be fine, because an eternal punishment is not in the logic of the Gospel. Plus, who are we to judge? Sent from my iPhone
Yes, I found the Holy Father's attempt to distinguish between the criminality of the act and one's concurrent sinfulness too tedious. It seems like he was trying to please everyone.
Brother that article is degrading and disgusting. No sign of Christian love. Sin condemned but a child of God suffering ssa called a pervert? A child of God struggling to follow the narrow path? Read the catechism it is a cross… but with the aid of the sacrements they may arrive into St Teresa’s 7th mansion. I am shocked you would post such a scandalous post. Who said that to be disgusted by sin of which you are not tempted is no sign of virtue? The most holy God is disgusted by all I mean all total sin. Mine and yours. Poor souls may they receive sanctifying grace and be lifted from darkness to the very beating heart of God.
Many ssa persons embrace and flaunt their sexual homosexual identity - aka Pride parades and the like. And their rainbow a sign of contradiction. Then there are those who want to overcome their weakness and I agree can overcome through grace and become saints. https://couragerc.org/ The act of sodomy is a perversion of God's will and one of the sins that cries to heaven for justice (Jude 1v7).
The New Testament reminds us to be on our guard - for we live in an evil generation that will be judged harshly on judgement day - Matthew 10:15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city. Luke 10:12 I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. Matthew 11:23-24 And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.” Luke 17:28-30 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
I used to have sympathy for that view, until I came to realise that it's a Trojan Horse. It's just a step...first, introduce sympathy for homosexuals, under the unproven premise that they can't help it and before you know it, they're in positions of power asserting that sodomitic relations should be 'blessed'. There's no 'narrow path' being pursued in the German Synod. God is disgusted by all sin, but I'd say there are degrees. He didn't give the example of Sodom and Gomorrah to any other sin. It is said by some saints and theologians that even the devils are disgusted by the disordered perversion that is represented by sodomitic activity. It's certainly unquestionable that homosexuality is the perfect solvent for the current dissolution of the Church. If the homosexualists succeed in their plans, all morality is undermined. If homosexuals are to be 'blessed', how can any heterosexual married couple be censored for using contraception, to take one example? If such relationships can be 'blessed', why not others? Even Michel Foucault, a noted anti-Catholic atheist admitted that up to 150 or so years ago, there was no such thing as homosexuality, just people who chose to commit homosexual acts. The idea of a 'homosexual identity' is an invention of the psychologists, being used, I suspect, by many homosexuals as an excuse not to completely abandon this mode of thought and behaviour. I've never heard of any serial heterosexual adulterer ever claim that he possessed an 'adulterous identity' and needed special understanding-unless you include the Hollywood types who claim to suffer 'sex addiction', another exercise in denial and also an invention of the psychologists. My only reservation about Mundabor is that he can be a bit rude towards Pope Francis, but he's Italian and typically tends not to place the papacy on as high a pedestal as Catholics elsewhere and, at this point, I'm not nearly as bothered by this, at all.
I think Mundabor's right. He's trying to (untruthfully) make the Catholic past look bad, rigid and intolerant. As Mundabor said, there never was a place, Catholic or otherwise, where anything other than blatantly open sodomy was criminalised. Certain Mohammedan countries might be different, but you can be sure that Pope Francis won't criticise them.
Homosexuality is a heavy cross, and one that deserves our prayers. You make a good point DeGaulle, our sympathy for homosexuals has blinded us and allowed this Trojan Horse to infiltrate society, and our Church. The LGBT movement has successfully portrayed themselves as victims to gain sympathy, and to normalize homosexuality. Little did we know that inside the horse was a stolen rainbow used as a banner to promote their agenda.
I'm not sure if you are familiar with the case of Asher's bakery in Belfast (tho there are probably similar cases elsewhere, in fact I'd bet there are!). Well, a gay man, when the bakery declined to make him a wedding cake took the bakers, a very devout Christian family, to court. He tried to ruin them and sought them fined or jailed or whatever; because they wouldn't go against their Christian views and make such a cake (there was to be a gay something or other on it). This man didn't care for the bakers rights or views or morals or beliefs. I think a lot of the gay agenda is aimed at somehow 'overcoming' or 'defeating' decent ordinary Christian people, families and businesses - to say the very least! As well as the church. I do not know why this is so, because very few Christians go out of their way to be on the 'offensive' towards the gay culture. They can offend Christians; and are almost cheered-on in so doing. But if Christians were to use similar tactics; we would be labelled bigots, racists, homophobes etc. Yes, we have our views, but they are not aimed so mercilessly at anyone. But to be honest, I think it's time for us to become more forthright. Well said Brian!!
It is all part and parcel of identity politics which is a Marxist ruse -- Use a purported 'minority group' contained within the alphabet group to control speech ('hate speech') in order to get control. Threaten, intimidate and jail those who do not conform - Pornograpy is another means of control. As is modern technology such as the so called smart phone! When you understand these things you see the world in a different light - these groups are being used and manipulated to make people conform through compelled speech. We really are living in Orwellian times.
We have a relative who has publicly acknowledged he has same-sex attraction, but is committed to living a chaste life. It is a struggle, but no sin. In fact you can have same-sex attraction and be a saint. Even more so in this upside-down culture! Temptation is not a sin, but a wonderful opportunity to give the devil a kick and send him back to hell!
CS Lewis in Mere Christianity makes some great arguments when discussing our temperaments and inclinations. We have our raw matter as it were, the bad dna we have been dealt, and the free decisions that we make. I would not want anothers cross, I have enough with my own, but at the same time each of us is responsible for dealing with our lot and God gives us the grace we need. We need but ask.
You're right, Malachi, we each have our own personal crosses. It is wired, in one sense, in our personality. Think of Jordan Peterson: a man who possesses an IQ that is off the charts. I'm sure he struggles with pride. Think how much the powers-that-be would love him to come over to their side! We must pray that humility reigns in his heart and that he finds his home in the Catholic Church! O Mary conceived without sin, pray for Jordan who has recourse to thee!
Fr Gerry Murray does a very, very good commentary over on EWTN on this with Raymond Arroyo. He was a wonderful priest and very learned.
