Biblical Oddities

Discussion in 'Scriptural Thoughts' started by SteveD, Feb 19, 2022.

  1. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

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    I frequently come across events and other things in the Bible and, considering that nothing is redundant in there, wonder what the meaning is and why specific things are included. One thing that made me wonder for years was John the Baptist. First of all, he was only six months older than Jesus yet he escaped Herod's slaughter when he would have been within the age limits set for execution. And, later, he was living on locusts and wild honey and though he was living in the wilderness preparing for his mission his dietary choices would have been wider than those two items. He could have caught various animals which could be eaten under Jewish dietary law so why did he limit himself to these?

    Then, I came across a site that offered an explanation for both my queries. The theory (which satisfies me) was that when his parents became aware of the danger from Herod, Zacharia, who was a priest (presumably with connections in the religious community), took him to the Essenes to look after him (the Essenes were a kind of strict Jewish religious order that lived in common). Eventually, John had to leave the Essenes to fulfill his mission BUT Essenes were required to take a vow never to eat any food prepared outside the community. This was a way of binding them to it for life so John had to leave but could not eat 'prepared' food in the wilderness and had to eat uncooked food only and (raw) locusts (aaargh!) and wild honey would have been the only ones available to him. Presumably he did not eat at all once he was arrested.

    Now has anyone come across an explanation for Jesus turning such a MASSIVE amount of water into wine at Cana? I've been to Irish weddings and they never ran out of booze and certainly didn't need a top up of these proportions.
     
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  2. Denise P

    Denise P Archangels

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    I have often pondered the notion that Jesus had no peers.
     
  3. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

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    I think I once read that the word for "locust" was very similar to a word that meant a kind of whole wheat bread eaten by peasants in those days so "locust" may have been a translation error.
     
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  4. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    I've seen the same theories about John the Baptist. Also, that most likely the man carrying the water jar who led the way to the upper room for the Last Supper was probably a celibate Essene monk because normally women carried the water.

    As to the amount of water changed to wine at Cana, it would have been customary for the whole village to be invited to the wedding. That still happens in some Muslim countries but the host wouldn't be providing any wine at those weddings.
     
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  5. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

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    I didn't realize John lived in Bethlehem as a baby!
     
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I read a few months back a commentary from I think it was Scott Hahn as to why they might have run out of wine at Cana. It was because when Jesus and Mary turned up they brought the Disciples (men and women) with them and so there was not enough wine to go around.

    This might also explain why so much more wine was needed. I suppose by this stage Jesus would have attained Rock Star Status with a big fan base. This might have attracted people from far and wide to the wedding.

    I happened into a Greek wedding feast at Cyprus one time and was at once invited to join in, although a stranger. Perhaps the Jews of the period had the same open house manners.

    I think the fact that it was Mary who approached Jesus about the wine makes me suspect this was because Mary was in charge of support staff. The back ground folk who made things tick. It also shows that the Mother of God has a strong practical streak, that she wasn't missing much.:)

    As the Disciples travelled about it would have been quite a big job feeding, clothing, sheltering and generally taking care of them. I suspect Mary would have been at the centre of this.
     
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  7. Lumena

    Lumena Guest

    Speaking of mysteries in the Scriptures, I've become facinated with the passages about 2 olive trees and 1 or 2 Lampstands/ and 2 witnesses. The first is in Zechariah Chapter 4 and the 2nd in in Revelation 11. If anyone has insights about what these symbolise, or know of good commentaries about them, let me know.

    Perhaps some visionaries have also spoken of them?
     
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  8. josephite

    josephite Powers

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    This video below should answer all the above questions.
    St John the Baptise was an Essen and the dead sea scrolls prove this!
    Please go the 25 minute mark

     
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  9. josephite

    josephite Powers

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    This video below should answer all the above questions.
    St John the Baptise was an Essen and the dead sea scrolls prove this!
    Please go the 25 minute mark

     
  10. AED

    AED Powers

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    John didn't live in Bethlehem. He was born in Ain Karim in Judea. His father went to Jerusalem to act as priest when his appointed times came. Mary traveled from Nazareth "to the hill country of Judea" to stay with Elizabeth for 3 months. Not Bethlehem.
     
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    And sometimes the celebrations lasted for days.
     
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  12. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

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    Oh ok. So the above comments about John somehow surviving the slaughter of the innocents in Bethlehem don't really apply since he wasn't in Bethlehem...
     
  13. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

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    Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for posting.

    The Essene roots of Christianity.

    The essential continuity between Judaism (at least in its essene form) and Christianity.

    Highly recommended.
     
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  14. Waiting by the window

    Waiting by the window Powers

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    There is a little passage in the Life of Jesus Christ and Biblical Revelations about John the Baptist during herod's massacre of the innocents pg. 294
    Once I saw Mary sending a messenger to Elizabeth,
    who then brought her child to a very concealed place in
    the desert. Zachary accompanied her only a part of the
    way. When they reached a certain body of water,
    Elizabeth and the child crossed over on a raft, while
    Zachary went on to Nazareth by the same route taken by
    Mary on her visit to Elizabeth. I saw him on his journey.



    The Flight into Egypt 295

    Perhaps he was going to make some inquiries, for there
    were some friends at Nazareth distressed at Mary's
    departure.

    On a starry night, I saw the Holy Family going
    through a sandy wilderness covered with low thickets.
    The scene was as vivid before me, as if I were really
    crossing the desert with them. Here and there under the
    copsewood, venomous snakes lay coiled. With loud hiss-
    ing, they approached the path and darted their heads
    angrily toward the Holy Family. But they, shielded by
    the light that environed them, stepped securely along. I
    saw other animals with immense fins like wings on their
    blackish body, with short feet, and a head like that of a
    fish. They darted along, flying over the ground. At last,
    the Holy Family came behind the bushes to a deep
    fissure in the ground, like the walls of a narrow defile,
    and here they rested.
     
  15. Waiting by the window

    Waiting by the window Powers

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    This next passage from Anne Catherine Emmerich's visions also describe John the Baptist's life as a child

    I had a glimpse of the Boy Jesus, now seven years
    old, as He walked between Mary and Joseph on their
    journey back to Judea from Egypt. I did not see the ass
    with them then, and they were carrying their bundles
    themselves. Joseph was about thirty years older than
    Mary. I saw them on a road in the desert, about two
    hours' distant from John's cave. The Boy Jesus, as He
    walked, gazed in that direction, and I saw that His soul
    was turning to John. At the same time, I saw John at
    prayer in his cave. An angel in the form of a boy ap-
    peared to him, telling him that the Saviour was passing
    by. John ran out of the cave and, with outstretched
    arms, flew toward the point that His Saviour was pass-
    ing. He hopped about and danced with joy. This vision
    was most touching. John's cave lay deeply buried in a
    hill. It was not much wider than his own little bed,
    though it extended some distance in length. The entrance
    was only a little opening, through which he used to
    swing himself out. In the top was an oblique aperture
    that admitted light. I saw in it a reed stand, upon which
    lay some honeycomb and dried locusts. The latter were
    yellow and speckled, as large, perhaps, as crabs. The



    John in the Desert 3 1 7

    desert in which Jesus fasted is four hours' distance from
    here. John was clothed in his earners skin. The angel
    that appeared to him was like a boy of his own age. I
    saw him at different periods, small at first and then
    larger, just as if he were growing up with John. He was
    not always with him; he used to appear and disappear.

    28. JOHN AS A CHILD GROWING UP
    IN THE DESERT

    John had already been long in the desert before the
    Holy Family's return from Egypt. That he had retired
    there at so young an age was due principally to divine
    inspiration and partly to his own inclinations, for he was
    of a meditative nature and loved solitude. He was never
    in a school; the Holy Ghost Himself taught him in the
    desert. He was much talked of even from his childhood,
    for the wonders attendant on his birth were known and a
    light was often seen around the child. Herod soon laid
    snares for him, and even before the children's massacre,
    Elizabeth was obliged to flee with him into the desert.
    He could walk and help himself at the time. He took
    refuge not far from the first cave of Magdalen, and
    Elizabeth visited him sometimes.

    When in his sixth or seventh year, I saw him again
    led into the desert by his mother. When Elizabeth left
    the house with the boy, Zachary was not home. He
    loved John so much and his grief at losing him was so
    great that he was obliged to absent himself in order not
    to witness his departure. He had, however, given him his
    blessing; for he was in the habit of blessing both mother
    and child whenever he left home. John wore a garment
    of skin. It passed from left to right over the shoulder
    and breast, was fastened under the right arm, and hung
    down behind. This was his only garment. His hair was
    brownish and darker than that of Jesus. He bore in his



    3 1 8 Life of Jesus Christ

    hand a white staff which he had brought with him from
    home, and which he always kept in the desert.

    I saw him as just described hastening across the coun-
    try by the hand of his mother. Elizabeth was a tall, ac-
    tive, old woman with a small, delicate face, and she was
    completely enveloped in a large mantle. John often ran
    on before her, hopping and jumping, perfectly unre-
    strained and childlike in action, though not distracted in
    soul. I saw them crossing a river. There was no bridge
    at that point, and so they crossed on a raft that was
    floating on the water. Elizabeth was a very resolute per-
    son, no difficulty daunted her; she herself rowed the raft
    across, using for that purpose the branch of a tree. They
    now turned eastward and entered a ravine, rocky and
    desolate above, but lower down covered with bushes and
    overgrown with strawberries. John now and then ate one.
    After going some distance into the ravine, Elizabeth took
    leave of John. She blessed him, pressed him to her heart,
    kissed him on the cheeks and forehead, and turned
    away, looking back at him as she retraced her steps,
    weeping. But the boy appeared wholly unconcerned, and
    quietly walked on deeper into the ravine. I followed the
    child with a feeling of uneasiness at his going so far
    from his mother, and fearing that he would not be able
    to find his way home again. But just then, a voice said
    to me, "Be not uneasy. The child knows well what he is
    about." I went with him and, in several visions, saw his
    whole after life in the desert. He often told me himself
    how he denied himself in every way and mortified his
    senses, his understanding becoming clearer and clearer,
    learning in an unexplainable way something from every-
    thing around him. I saw him when a child playing with
    flowers and animals. The birds were particularly familiar
    with him. They lighted upon his head when he was
    walking or praying, and perched upon his staff when he
    laid it across the branches. There they sat in numbers,



    John in the Desert 3 1 9

    while he watched them and played with them. I saw him
    also going after other animals, following them into their
    dens, feeding them, playing with them, or earnestly
    watching them.

    At the opposite extremity of this rocky ravine, the
    country was somewhat more open, and John pressed on
    until he reached a little lake with a low shore covered
    with white sand. I saw him there wading far out into the
    water. The fish swam up and gathered around him; he
    seemed quite at home with them. He lived in this region
    a long time, and I saw that he wove for himself out of
    branches a sleeping hul among the bushes. It was very
    low and only large enough to allow him to lie in it.

    Both here and afterward in other places, I often saw
    by him radiant figures, angels, with whom he treated
    fearlessly and confidently, though most reverently. They
    appeared to be teaching him, directing his attention to
    different things. He had fastened a piece of wood to his
    staff, thus giving it the form of a cross, also a strip of
    broad grass, or bark, or leaves like a little flag. He often
    played with it, waving it here and there. While he lived
    in this part of the desert, I saw his mother visiting him
    twice, but they did not meet at this spot. He must have
    known when she was coming, for he always went some
    distance to meet her. Elizabeth brought him a tablet
    with a slender reed for writing.

    After his father's death, John went secretly to Juttah,
    to console Elizabeth. He remained concealed with her
    for some time. She told him many things of Jesus and
    the Holy Family, some of which he noted down with
    strokes on his tablet. Elizabeth wanted him to go with
    her to Nazareth, but he would not. He returned again to
    the desert.

    Once when Zachary had gone with a herd to the Tem-
    ple, he was set upon by Herod's soldiers and rudely
    maltreated in a narrow pass on the side of Jerusalem



    320 Life of Jesus Christ

    nearest to Bethlehem, at a spot whence the city could
    not be seen. The soldiers dragged him into a prison on
    that side of Mount Zion by which, at a later period, the
    disciples used to ascend. Zachary was frightfully mal-
    treated, tortured, and at last pierced with a sword,
    because he would not disclose John's retreat. Elizabeth
    was at the time in the desert with John. When she
    returned to Juttah, he accompanied her part of the way,
    and then went back to the desert. On reaching Juttah,
    Elizabeth learned the murder of her husband and great
    were her lamentations,

    Zachary was buried by his friends in the vicinity of
    the Temple. He is not that Zachary who was slain be-
    tween the altar and the Temple and whom I saw at the
    time of the Crucifixion with the other risen dead. He
    issued from that part of the wall in which the aged Sim-
    eon once had his cell for prayer, and walked about the
    Temple. The last Zachary was murdered in a struggle
    that had taken place among many at the Temple, con-
    cerning the genealogy of the Messiah and certain priv-
    ileges and places of individual families.

    Elizabeth's sorrow was so great that she could no
    longer bear to remain in Juttah, without John; conse-
    quently, she returned to him in the desert. She soon after
    died there and was buried by an Essenian, a relative of
    Anna the Prophetess. The house in Juttah, a very
    handsomely ordered one, was occupied by her sister's
    daughter. John secretly returned to it once after his
    mother's death, after which he buried himself still deeper
    in the desert and thenceforth was altogether alone, I saw
    him journeying to the south around the Dead Sea, then
    up the eastern side of the Jordan, from wilderness to
    wilderness toward Kedar and even toward Gessur. When
    he passed from one wilderness to another, I saw him
    running through broad fields by night. He went to that
    region where long after I saw John the Evangelist sitting
     
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  16. Waiting by the window

    Waiting by the window Powers

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    part 2
    John in the Desert 321

    and writing under the high trees. Under those trees grew
    bushes with berries, of which he sometimes ate. I saw
    him also eating a certain herb that bears a white flower
    and has five round leaves like clover. We have at home
    herbs like them, only smaller. They grow under the
    hedges, and the leaves have a sourish taste. When I was
    a child I used to love to chew them while minding the
    cattle off in the solitary fields, because I had seen John
    eating them. I also saw him drawing forth from holes in
    the trees and picking out of moss on the ground lumps
    of some brownish -looking stuff, which he ate. I think it
    was wild honey, for it was very plentiful there. The skin
    that he had brought with him from home, he now wore
    around his loins, and over his shoulders hung a brown,
    shaggy cover which he had woven himself. There were
    in the desert wool -bearing animals which ran tamely
    around John, and camels with long hair on their neck.
    They stood most patiently and allowed him to pull it
    out. I saw him twisting the hair into cords and weaving
    from them that covering which he wore hanging around
    him when he appeared among men and baptized.

    I saw him in continual and familiar communication
    with angels, by whom he was instructed. He slept upon
    the hard rock and under the open sky, ran over rough
    stones through thorns and briers, disciplined himself with
    thistles, wore himself out working on trees and stones,
    and lay prostrate in prayer and contemplation. He
    levelled roads, made little bridges, and changed the
    course of well springs. I often saw him writing in the
    sand with a reed, kneeling and standing motionless in
    ecstasy, or praying with outstretched arms. His penance
    and mortification became more and more severe, his
    prayer longer and more fervent. He saw the Saviour only
    three times face to face with his bodily eyes. But Jesus
    was with him in spirit; and John, who was constantly in
    the prophetic state, saw in spirit the actions of Jesus.



    322 Life of Jesus Christ

    I saw John when full grown. He was a powerful, ear-
    nest man. He was standing by a dry well in the desert,
    and appeared to be in prayer. A light hovered over him
    like a cloud, and it seemed to me as if it came from on
    high, from the water above the earth. Then a light, shin-
    ing stream fell over him into the basin below. While
    gazing on this torrent, I saw John no longer at the edge
    of the basin; he was in it, the shining water flowing over
    him, and the basin filled by the sparkling stream. Then
    again, I saw him, as at first, standing on the basin's
    edge; but I did not see him out of it, nor coming out. I
    think that the whole was perhaps a vision which John
    himself had had, and by which he was instructed to
    begin to baptize; or it may have been a spiritual baptism
    bestowed upon him in vision.
     
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  17. AED

    AED Powers

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    I don't know how far reaching Herod's slaughter reached. I only know he wasn't in Bethlehem.
     
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  18. josephite

    josephite Powers

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    This is a wonderful testimony and conversion of Dr. John Bergsma who was a former pastor of a protestant church!

     
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  19. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

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    The Essenes are at the root of Christianity and may have become the first Christians.

    This is what the essene monastic life may have looked like.

    95222853-B680-4EE6-827D-293A5807AFD0.jpeg A6E8E60F-D187-4394-A590-168FD832C8C8.jpeg EE85E322-BDB1-466D-AB3C-F6A20F2FAA0B.jpeg
     
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  20. Frankly

    Frankly Archangels

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    Since it's John, whatever occurred must be fine and dandy
    - and armed w/Faith - to be accepted without Question since it's GOSPEL.
    Perhaps John - who as as babe recognized Jesus in Mary's womb - was instructed by God;
    yet that's rather inconsequential to John's appointed 'job' as God's appointed herald of the Messiah Jesus..


    Massive? I don't think 'massive' would apply to what we know from Scriptures re: Cana and Jesus..
    We do not know the number of folks at the wedding celebration - but that's really neither here nor there..
    It would be 'just right' .. and 'accepted' as such..
    - as we keep our focus upon that Miracle as being Jesus' first public miracle along with Mary's involvement.
     

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